Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

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Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by melanie » 05 Feb 2015, 7:38 pm

Hi guys,

Just looking up stuff and found the Browning BLR takedown.

I get the takedown's sometimes need a click to confirm zero after assembly lose a fraction of accuracy for the takedown ability.

Occurs to me though... Wouldn't it be better with the scope on the front half of the rifle with the barrel? I mean, the barrel guides the bullet, if the scope is always attached to the barrel half it can't have any movement in it can it?
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by brett1868 » 05 Feb 2015, 10:16 pm

Melanie, the return to zero on rifles that either take down or have interchangeable barrels boils down to how well the 2 parts fit together. My DTA HTI has interchangeable barrels and it returns to zero perfectly with the scope mounted on the receiver. DTA have very tight tolerances with their machining so it's a non issue in this case. Best test is to shoot a group, disassemble, assemble and shoot another group to see how close it returns to zero. Because I shoot 3 calibres from the 1 chassis (3 barrels) I have to keep a note of the scope clicks for zero on each barrel. Takes a little fiddling to swap calibres but after doing it a few times it's quite quick and the return to zero is spot on.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Ken » 08 Feb 2015, 11:40 am

Your idea isn't wrong as such but other factors are going to get in the way.

On the BLR mounting the scope on the fore half would place it too far forward. Google some pictures and see where the scope is mounted in relation to where it comes in half.

Different rifles have different expectations also. Brett's DTA is a high precision firearm, the Browning BLR is a hunting rifle where pinpoint precision is not required. A 1/4 inch difference in point of impact on assembling the rifle makes no practical difference to a hunter.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Jack V » 08 Feb 2015, 2:10 pm

You could do it with a long eye relief scope but they all tend to be small pistol scopes and limited.

The other thing is attaching mounting systems on a barrel is problematic. You can't use too much heat to silver solder on a rail or the barrel could warp. Machining on a rail might also cause stress changes.

Leaving a solid flat section on a round barrel to attach said mounts takes special barrel making techniques. Machining rail grooves would be possible on a good thick barrel with slight chance of changes. Having a bare barrel free of the action makes cleaning the bore much easier as long as a guide is used.

Then there is also barrel vibrations and whip which might rattle the scope around more than if it was on the action but scout rifles seem to do it ok.

How the barrel detaches is another possible issue. Does it come straight back. turn to one side or screw all the way out, include the forend or not, all makes a difference.

You could do it but weather it would be a more accurate system over time is another matter.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Triang » 10 Feb 2015, 8:14 am

Jack V wrote:How the barrel detaches is another possible issue. Does it come straight back. turn to one side or screw all the way out, include the forend or not, all makes a difference.


I'm a bit perplexed by some of them (e.g. Sako Quad) where the barrel lifts up in order to be removed.

There must be some shorter, smaller objective scopes mounted a little higher where it isn't an issue, but when I was looking at one the different Leupold and Bushnell scopes I was considering were all hit by the barrel when changing. Scope would have had to have been removed for each barrel change.

f*** that. That upwards tilt for removal has cost them tonnes of sales I'm sure.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Jack V » 10 Feb 2015, 8:47 am

Yes mate you are 100% correct . A lot of people would have got caught with that and found that they had to change the scope or the mounts .

The great problem with some corporate designers , engineers and R&D people is they do tend to work in there own little cut off World with almost no reference to or input from the customer that may want to buy their products.

However cost of production is always the overriding factor and kills good designs off.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Lorgar » 10 Feb 2015, 8:47 am

I was looking at the Sako Quad before I got my 1416.

I figured 22lr for the local target range and 17hmr for hunting.

As above, requiring removal of the scope killed the idea in it's tracks.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Jack V » 10 Feb 2015, 9:16 am

I think if you went for a short compact smaller objective style scope it would be ok as long as you be careful not to ding up the scope objective.
The Brno model 2 that I have needs a small objective scope to miss the rear sight which I don't want to remove as it will get lost . However if you want a larger big objective scope on the Sako quad then it is an issue and you end up with a very high mounted scope .
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Warrigul » 10 Feb 2015, 9:41 am

melanie wrote:Hi guys,

Just looking up stuff and found the Browning BLR takedown.

I get the takedown's sometimes need a click to confirm zero after assembly lose a fraction of accuracy for the takedown ability.

Occurs to me though... Wouldn't it be better with the scope on the front half of the rifle with the barrel? I mean, the barrel guides the bullet, if the scope is always attached to the barrel half it can't have any movement in it can it?


I had a BLR for two seasons(when deer shooting was a couple of hours away and I used to use my roadbike to get top the shack) and it was never an issue, checked zero a few times and I couldn't pick the difference at 100.

Forward mounting, soldering on rails and mounts etc is clouding a very simple issue.

However many simply get takedowns etc and never use them as such anyway.

FWIW I have detachable mounts on my main target rifle so I can use either the scope or apetures and they seldom need adjustment. Wherever there are mating surfaces and it is disturbed there is the potential for error but something has to change for that to happen(a bump or burr, dirt etc).
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Jack V » 10 Feb 2015, 9:49 am

Guns like a BLR that don't see much shooting will hold zero ok but as they wear out they can show zero changes but some will not shoot that much or remove the barrel often anyway to ever see that .
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Lorgar » 10 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm

Jack V wrote:I think if you went for a short compact smaller objective style scope it would be ok as long as you be careful not to ding up the scope objective.


Probably. I'd suggest a lot of shooters aren't going to compromise on their scope though for the sake of the rifle when their are other options.

Objective size isn't the only thing either.

In my case I have the Bushnell 4500 8-32x 40mm. It's a long scope, nearly 46cm. Regardless of objective size it just wasn't going to work without having to remove the scope every time I wanted to change a barrel, so the Sako idea got scrapped.

I've no doubt the Sako quad is a great little rifle and we could come up with lots of scenarios where it would be fine, at the end of the day though it wasn't going to work for me and I'm sure isn't going to be an attractive prospect for a lot of shooters.

It was, in my opinion, a mistake to design it so the barrel removed upwards.
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by melanie » 10 Feb 2015, 2:32 pm

Jack V wrote:Guns like a BLR that don't see much shooting will hold zero ok but as they wear out they can show zero changes but some will not shoot that much or remove the barrel often anyway to ever see that .


You mean wear in the socket where the two halves join?
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Jack V » 10 Feb 2015, 3:21 pm

Yes eventually most take down systems wear and slop is introduced . A few have tapered locking systems that compensate for some wear but not all wear .
I don't think it's a big issue for the first owner of a new gun .
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by dorpel » 10 Feb 2015, 8:01 pm

FYI if you're interested Melanie the Browning Maral is a takedown build like you're picturing.

browning-maral.jpg
Browning Maral
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browning_maral.jpg
Browning Maral
browning_maral.jpg (8.29 KiB) Viewed 5269 times
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Re: Scope on the rear half of a takedown rifle

Post by Tiiger » 02 Mar 2015, 7:30 pm

Ken wrote:On the BLR mounting the scope on the fore half would place it too far forward. Google some pictures and see where the scope is mounted in relation to where it comes in half.


Not quite, could be done as a scout setup with long eye relief scope instead.

But yeah, wouldn't work as the BLR are intended.
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