BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 16 Aug 2016, 11:57 pm

Hey all,
Floating some options on scopes for a T3 Lite in 223.
Keen to get some feedback on your experiences with the various BDC offerings out there.
Was thinking Nikon....but interested in the general census.
Your reply appreciated,
Regs,
Tank.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Mitch » 17 Aug 2016, 4:38 am

I've got three rifles fitted with BDC scopes. I like them, easy hold overs erc.

What info do you want exactly?
Mitch
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 224
Queensland

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 17 Aug 2016, 7:01 am

Realising it's always worth paying for quality but at the same time looking to keep cost down I guess.
Have you found the reticle performs as advertised?
What loads match the BDC's ranging hashes closest on that given scope?

Which of the BDC's are you using?

Cheers,
Tank.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by bladeracer » 17 Aug 2016, 2:31 pm

Tank wrote:Realising it's always worth paying for quality but at the same time looking to keep cost down I guess.
Have you found the reticle performs as advertised?
What loads match the BDC's ranging hashes closest on that given scope?

Which of the BDC's are you using?

Cheers,
Tank.



I'm using Bushnell's AR Optics. It's not first-focal-plane so the reticle only works at max zoom, which is fine as you don't need it at close ranges. The dots are fairly fine too, covering about the size of a rabbit at 750yds.
The BDC reticle works on you estimating or measuring the range to begin with so there's no requirement to use 100yd increments, or a .223. I work out the ranges that drop my bullets on the dots.

With the 223BDC the dots should fall roughly about:
100yd zero
200yd –1.56MoA
300yd –4.11MoA
400yd –7.43MoA
500yd –11.7MoA
600yd –17.17MoA
That's the trajectory of 5.56NATO SS109 at 3100fps but it wouldn't surprise me if they're using lower velocities to suit AR15's. I know that the 500yd dot in my scope is almost exactly 300mm below the crosshair at 100yds as an A4 page fills it perfectly - and 300mm at 100 yards is near as damn 11.7MoA.

On my 7mm-08 with Sierra’s 100gn HP at 3200fps:
90yd zero
200yd –1.56MoA
300yd –4.14MoA
395yd –7.43MoA
490yd –11.7MoA
580yd –17.17MoA
I haven't grouped these past 400yds so I can't confirm the accuracy of the last two figures. As you can see though, it's a tiny reference chart you can print and laminate for each load.

I haven't got the 162gn ELD-X's yet but they should drop on the dots at roughly:
100yd zero
185yd –1.56MoA
300yd –4.13MoA
420yd –7.43MoA
560yd –11.7MoA
715yd –17.17MoA

It's definitely more accurate to dial up your elevation, but if you've zero'ed at 100yds to use the BDC, you'll need a lot of turret adjustment. From memory the AR Optics has 100 1/4MoA clicks (which is a lot for a 1" tube), and should give you enough to dial .223 out to 500 yards, assuming your zero is in the centre of the range.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12656
Victoria

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 17 Aug 2016, 3:21 pm

Cheers Bladeracer.
Bearing in mind that max magnification must be used....I reckon I'll stick with something with a CDS from Leupold....not magnification specific that way.
Still....at the money they want for a Bushnell....it couldn't hurt to try one.
Thanks for the additional info too.
Regs,
Tank.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by bladeracer » 17 Aug 2016, 3:36 pm

Tank wrote:Cheers Bladeracer.
Bearing in mind that max magnification must be used....I reckon I'll stick with something with a CDS from Leupold....not magnification specific that way.
Still....at the money they want for a Bushnell....it couldn't hurt to try one.
Thanks for the additional info too.
Regs,
Tank.



It really isn't a problem. If you're shooting at such ranges that you need a BDC reticle you're going to be at max zoom anyway. I shoot the .204 to 300yds+ just using some kentucky hold-over for foxes.
If I only had one rifle I'd maybe spend that sort of money for my scope, but I could never justify a safe full of them :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12656
Victoria

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 17 Aug 2016, 10:27 pm

Cheers!
Most helpful.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Gwion » 18 Aug 2016, 10:00 am

For a BDC reticle to be useful, you need to know a fairly accurate velocity for the round you are shooting in your rifle. Also, accurate range estimation is necessary. I have found that if I'm taking a shot that requires me to use anything past the first drop hash, I would need a range finder to properly set up the shot. I use a 180m MPB (only allow 3" kill zone) and the first drop on my Vortex Diamond Back takes me out to about 250m. As I said, passed this the bullet is dropping fast and properly estimating range for a clean kill starts to get trickier unless I am shooting from a known position where I have ranging landmarks known to me (my paddocks, essentially). I don't have a range finder.

The vortex ballistics web site also allows you to set magnification, etc to create drop charts to get a MPB for each hash drop at different powers. Day time I'll use max power but night shooting I generally set a 6x for better light transmission in my scope.

Hope some of that is useful.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 18 Aug 2016, 6:20 pm

Cheers Gwion!
Useful for sure.
I've always used PBR as per Nick Harvey and seldom (if ever to be honest) have needed, or been inclined, to take a shot at ranges greater than the maximum PBR.
Scope adjusted for POI 1.5" high at 100m (.223 Rem) enabling me to hold 'bang on' out to 230ish m with a 3" kill zone target.
However been playing with steel plates and range finder and thought the BDC a thought for this purpose with a flow on to hunting.
Cheers again for you thoughts!
Regs,
Tank.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Aug 2016, 8:10 pm

I shot some groups this arvo with the 7mm-08 to zero the 100gn Sierra HP at 3200fps 27mm high at 110 yards, zero at 175 yards, 27mm low at 200yds and 115mm low at 250 yards. At 300 yards it's 250mm low but only doing 1900fps at that point.
With that zero, the 160gn Speer BTSP at 2450fps is hitting 25mm to the left and 25mm low at 110 yards, so four clicks right and ten clicks up (from my 100gn zero) to zero it 38mm high at 110 yards and 52mm low at 200 yards. At 250 yards it's 170mm low, at 300 yards its 340mm low.

To equate that to the 223BDC reticle with the 100gn HP:
At 100yds my hits are 1.0MoA above the crosshair
At 175yds my hits are on the crosshair
At 200yds my hits are 0.5MoA below the crosshair (bottom edge of the horizontal posts)
At 245yds my hits are on the first BDC dot (the 1.56MoA dot)
At 330yds my hits are on the second BDC dot (the 4.14MoA dot)
At 420yds my hits are on the third BDC dot (the 7.43MoA dot)
At 505yds my hits are on the fourth BDC dot (the 11.7MoA dot)
At 595yds my hits are on the top of the BDC post (the 17.17MoA dot)

With the 160gn BTSP I'm basically shooting pointblank out to 200 yards, then at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards the BDC is damned near spot on.
At 100yds my hits are 1.5MoA above the crosshair
At 165yds my hits are on the crosshair
At 220yds my hits are on the first BDC dot (the 1.56MoA dot)
At 295yds my hits are on the second BDC dot (the 4.14MoA dot)
At 385yds my hits are on the third BDC dot (the 7.43MoA dot)
At 490yds my hits are on the fourth BDC dot (the 11.7MoA dot)
At 605yds my hits are on the top of the BDC post (the 17.17MoA dot)

Five-shot groups were 0.8-1.0MoA with both the 100gn and the 160gn BTSP. I shot three groups with the 100gn through some sedge at the 75 yard mark with no measurable effect at the target - can't do that with the .204 :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12656
Victoria

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 19 Aug 2016, 6:36 pm

Man!
You are a results man Bladeracer!
Comprehensive info mate.
Cheers.
Only really interested in the BDC for my 223 (currently wearing an old Weaver Grand Slam...) but it's interesting to note its ability to work cross calibre.
Gonna order a Bushy AR and give it a run.....coz.
Thanks again for taking the time to pass on your thoughts and info.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Aug 2016, 11:46 pm

Tank wrote:Man!
You are a results man Bladeracer!
Comprehensive info mate.
Cheers.
Only really interested in the BDC for my 223 (currently wearing an old Weaver Grand Slam...) but it's interesting to note its ability to work cross calibre.
Gonna order a Bushy AR and give it a run.....coz.
Thanks again for taking the time to pass on your thoughts and info.


Once you get your head around the fact that they're just dots on the reticle corresponding to minutes of drop it's easy to adapt them to any calibre.
An extreme example - Hornady Factory 325gn FTX in 45/70:
65yds 0.6MoA above the crosshair
100yds on the crosshair
140yds is the first dot
185yds is the second dot
240yds is the third dot
300yds is the fourth dot
365yds is the top of the post

As a carpenter I have an affinity for numbers and angles, I love this stuff :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12656
Victoria

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 20 Aug 2016, 12:16 am

Lol!
As a heavy plant operator I appreciate the 45-70 reference!!
Cheers,
Tank.
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Aug 2016, 12:43 am

Tank wrote:Lol!
As a heavy plant operator I appreciate the 45-70 reference!!
Cheers,
Tank.



:-)
I haven't got myself a 45/70 yet, but after shooting the .45 muzzle loader I don't think it's far off :-)

I'd be interested in your own thoughts of the BDC if you do get one, as you're wanting it specifically for the reticle.

The 223BDC meant nothing to me when I bought the 4.5-18x40 AR Optics scope. I liked the scope for the easy to use turrets, huge amount of adjustment, side focus, very fine reticle, good clarity - and especially the price, well under $400 delivered. I wanted a reticle that had drop markings but not specifically for any calibre. I would prefer simple MoA marks but as you can see it really doesn't much matter. About the only thing I'd like to add to it would be dead-stop re-zeroing of the turrets.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12656
Victoria

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Mitch » 20 Aug 2016, 5:32 am

I was using mine the other day. I have a BDC on both a 223 and a 7mm-08.

My range has a metal pig at 200, again at 300, and a ram at 500.

I was consistently ringing all targets, using the BDC for the holdover. Was quite fun actually
Mitch
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 224
Queensland

Re: BDC Scopes for 223.....what's people's thoughts?

Post by Tank » 21 Aug 2016, 5:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Tank wrote:Lol!
As a heavy plant operator I appreciate the 45-70 reference!!
Cheers,
Tank.



:-)
I haven't got myself a 45/70 yet, but after shooting the .45 muzzle loader I don't think it's far off :-)

I'd be interested in your own thoughts of the BDC if you do get one, as you're wanting it specifically for the reticle.

The 223BDC meant nothing to me when I bought the 4.5-18x40 AR Optics scope. I liked the scope for the easy to use turrets, huge amount of adjustment, side focus, very fine reticle, good clarity - and especially the price, well under $400 delivered. I wanted a reticle that had drop markings but not specifically for any calibre. I would prefer simple MoA marks but as you can see it really doesn't much matter. About the only thing I'd like to add to it would be dead-stop re-zeroing of the turrets.


Cool! Cheers, I'll keep you informed once sorted.
45-70 is addictive! Be warned!
Can be loaded up to be very authoritative or with Trailboss is something my kids use confidently.......
I love it.
My 1873 Cav Trapdoor is one of my go to rifles for fun days plinking and can be a load of fun to hunt with.
Go on! Grab one!! You know you need it!
Hahaha!
Keep calm......and hold centre of mass.
User avatar
Tank
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
South Australia


Back to top
 
Return to Scopes, sights and optics