Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

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Re: Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2018, 3:26 pm

Stix wrote:As i said blade, whilst i sound picky, i wasn't trying to be....it just so happens the unit i have is horrible & i slipped when mounting it so scratched the tube so cant get a refund or get it exchanged.
SCJ just asked what i hate about it & i answered.
I appreciate the scopes work for you mate, but the one i have sucks...& also as i said, they have thrir place, but ideally not for me given i like picking bunnies at couple hundred, & i also feel they would be no good for anyone wanting largely to do the same--but id be happy for one on my .222 or a hornett or something like that.
But there is a reason shooters/varminters seeking the tightest in accuracy dont use scopes with large dots over POI...however as you say, if chasing deer fair enough.
But for all round general stuff its as i said a great value scope...no argument from me there!!

One of your first points (relating to holdover hash marks out to 300 on hunting outfits-as you say if you need a 6" holdover at 300 its not necessary to use holdover hash marks or therefore dial it) counteracts your points of needing/wanting a return to zero & exposed turrets--
So im not quite sure of your points there at the beginning & end of your post..
And that is where it comes down to the individual & their priorities in features for scope selection.
My priorities are optics on walkabout hunting rifle--& the Elite i have has optical quality as good, & even better than some scopes of 3X the outlay.
Whilst i too would like the Elite scope to have these features of zero return exposed turrets etc, im happy to save at least $500 on something remotely comparible in optics ,given that these are on walk about hunting rifles, mostly for goats, & hopefully deer (if i ever get on to them). So capped turrets, return to zero & .25moa make no difference to me with shots on goats out to 300 (mind you the longest we've (2 shooters) ever busted is 14 out of a mob of 15 was 200yds).


When i speak of focus i mean a sharp image that is adjusted by the 'parallex correction" dial on the scope, im not referring to the dioptre--the dioptre is set for you eye & left. (im not suggesting thats what you thought i meant, im just trying to be clear).
...if you havnt had, or noticed that some scopes are not in focus (clearest & sharpest target image possible for that given scope) when parallex is correctly set then you are lucky...or its my eyes lol...
Being out of focus/or not quite the clearest image possible is often barely noticable, & you will not notice it in the results printed on targets at usual ranges of up to 100m (unless youre looking through the scope sideways), or out at extended ranges if you have the ability to centre your eye perfectly in the scope every time.
But id be very surprised that if you have so many of these scopes, that at least a couple of them don't suffer from this phenomenon, if not all, even if it is barely noticable if at all.

I have a Zeiss .Conquest HD5 that suffers from chromatic aberration & target being out of focus when parallex is set correctly...its easy to test...i notice it on a good deal of scopes & i suffer from bad eyes.

As for focus/parallex adjustment down to 10 metres...all i can say is that if you need that on a scope with a power of 18 magnification, i hope you got your safety gear on or youre shooting from a bullet proof bunker mate... :lol:
And If you cant shoot a goat in the head at 15 metres with a 4x-6x scope without the need to stop & adjust parallex down to 10 metres, then you be better served using the fuel to drive to the butcher... :lol: :sarcasm:

My problem (or one of many) is i come from an industry of high end optics, & whilst ive lost a lot of my ability to see the quality i used to be able to see, i can still pick these small flaws in scopes-infact they stand out to me.

And being able to see fine detail in shadows of gum tree foliage well over 600 metres in a Swarovski Z6, and not being able to see fine detail in the dirt mound at 220 metres with a $200 scope is proof that you DO sometimes get what you pay for...!!!
:drinks:


The dots are not for precision shooting, you can own the scope and never ever use the dots, it's not like they're in the way or anything. About the only time I use them is with reduced loads. For example, the 6.5x55mm I zero at 250m with full-power loads, and I know that my subsonic load drops on the fourth dot at 100m (and the dot is only 1MoA - 29mm at 100m). If you use the crosshair as you would with any other scope then the dots are never over your PoI, not even near your PoI. At 500m on a goat or deer, even if you chose to use a holdover dot instead of dialing the range, the dot only covers150mm.

With any rifle I'm going to shoot rabbits to 300m with, I zero around the 250m mark, which means I don't need to bother with holdover marks out to 300m. For shooting further than 300m where you are dialing elevation then zero-stop turrets would be nice, not essential, but nice to have. Plinking rabbits at 200-300m is my ideal afternoon of shooting, but there are zero rabbits around here anymore.

Nope, I've had zero problems with focusing the parallax at any range, with any of the scopes. Maybe it is just not noticeable, in which case why would I worry about it? And I have no problem putting any of my rifles to the shoulder and finding my eye centred in the scope, that's how you set a scope up. It's partly why I decided I wanted all my hunting rifles to be the same platform, and all with the same scope.

If I were trying to shoot anything much further than 300-400m, it would only be at steel or paper, so I doubt I'd need to make out shadows in leaves.

I think you're probably right that your background in optics skews your view of what is perfectly suitable for those of us that only use optics for a few specific recreational activities.
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Re: Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

Post by Stix » 18 Jun 2018, 6:04 pm

bladeracer wrote:
The dots are not for precision shooting, i get that and have already agreed with youyou can own the scope and never ever use the dots, it's not like they're in the way or anythingI find them off-putting therefore they are in the way-from a mental perspective if you get me--i like varmint reticles/or the Xmas tree if you will, yet oethers hate them-each to his own :thumbsup: . About the only time I use them is with reduced loads. For example, the 6.5x55mm I zero at 250m with full-power loads, and I know that my subsonic load drops on the fourth dot at 100m (and the dot is only 1MoA - 29mm at 100m). If you use the crosshair as you would with any other scope then the dots are never over your PoI, not even near your PoI. At 500m on a goat or deer, even if you chose to use a holdover dot instead of dialing the range, the dot only covers150mm.

With any rifle I'm going to shoot rabbits to 300m with, I zero around the 250m mark, which means I don't need to bother with holdover marks out to 300m.seeing how you point this out, i tried that with my 22 (a zero at 75yds) & didnt like it as i found i had to guess a hold under & hold over on far too many occasions than was necessary, so the 22 is back to 54 yd zero & CF i either have POI 1" high @100 (204), or zero @ 200(22-250) & know my drop at 300--that way for 99.9% of field shooting ill hit a rabits head out to max pbr without thinking & still target its brain with a simple 1" hold under at around the the 100 mark For shooting further than 300m where you are dialing elevation then zero-stop turrets would be nice, not essential, but nice to have yep agreed. Plinking rabbits at 200-300m is my ideal afternoon of shooting :drinks: im with you there, but there are zero rabbits around here anymore.That sucks--catch some & breed em up :unknown:

Nope, I've had zero problems with focusing the parallax at any range, with any of the scopes. Maybe it is just not noticeable, in which case why would I worry about it? I didnt suggest you should worry about it-i merely answered SCJ's question as to why i dont like the scope i have & this happens to be one of the major points-beyond that, im just stating a simple fact about many scopesAnd I have no problem putting any of my rifles to the shoulder and finding my eye centred in the scope, that's how you set a scope up.Yes & obviously you have things set well for yourself and have a repeatable mount-thats not always possible when having to contort ones self inside a car when spotlighting, but as you mention it, i just say in general conversation that the set-up/scope height is often different for shooting off a bench/varminting, or rapid target aquisition off the shoulder rapid fire hunting-such as on a mob of goats/pigs(depending on the individual)--i believe many people after putting so much thought & research into scope selection, set scope at wrong height chasing the fashionable cheek weld that results in shooting high in the field-im not ashamed to admit ive suffered from it myself It's partly why I decided I wanted all my hunting rifles to be the same platform, and all with the same scope.Same here--for my walk about hunting outfits ive chosen the Elite 4500/Tikka T3 lite--the only thing to differ between them is recoil (& how alert the clown is behind the trigger)

If I were trying to shoot anything much further than 300-400m, it would only be at steel or paper, so I doubt I'd need to make out shadows in leaves.
My point here is not about shadows in leaves mate, its about the resolving power of an optic-& i dont mean for this to sound like a stupid & obvious thing to say, but it can mean a big difference to what we actually see as opposed to what we think we see-maybe no difference to you for what you do, maybe a big difference to others-from a hunting perspective this can mean the difference in seeing or not seeing the full outline of a dark goat in the shadows of a hillside at 200yds, or seeing or not seeing a rabbit(s) in the contrasty shadows along the edge of mallee scrub, or the outline of a fox in a stubble field at 350yds under spotlight, & also be the difference in successfully judging the dancing flared mirage on a light coloured target or pig etc beyond 400.
If you could see through one of your scopes & a swarovski 3-18 side by side & shoot in all of the above situations & honestly say there was no difference, you'd be lying--ive never had the pleasure of seeing through the high end of rifle optics-i can only imagine how good they are


I think you're probably right that your background in optics skews your view of what is perfectly suitable for those of us that only use optics for a few specific recreational activities.
NO.. I didnt say nor suggest my "background in optics skews my view of what is perfectly suitable for those of us that only use optics for a few specific recreational activities"-I am one of those very people & my prior experience with quality optics does no such thing... My experience does make me very aware of the pitfalls of the cheaper end of rifle scopes, & allows me to be better informed when it comes to making decisions for myself, particularly given my ever degrading eye sight, & on advising others if they so ask for my opinion in what is important to ME in a rifle optic.
As i said "And that is where it comes down to the individual & their priorities in features for scope selection."


If ive offended you by what ive said about the scope, it was not my intention--in case i have ,-my opinion of a scope in no way represents what i think of you or your ability or your choice in equipment--particularly when it comes to shooting gear that makes you happy & works for you...!!! :D
There are many folk out there who think the scope ive chosen is a roughed up coke bottle to look through...but we are both happy with our respective optic choices (well except my dud bushnell cheapie) & thats what counts...as it is im a porper anyway so mostly use cheap scopes, whether i like it or not :drinks:
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Re: Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Jun 2018, 8:01 pm

Thanks for your thoughtful comments Gents and I appreciate you being candid about the issues you experienced Stix. I have used and owned a number of high end competition scopes and know what European glass looks like. I was expecting the Bushnell glass to be like the Tasco and Nikko Sterling glass from the eighties. I was very surprised that the glass was a decent quality. I was shooting on a metallic silhouette range and knocking off the turkeys at 400. Even in very low light the scope performed well. It is no S&B but I would be happy to use it hunting or for mid range plinking.
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Re: Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jun 2018, 10:53 pm

Stix wrote:If ive offended you by what ive said about the scope, it was not my intention--in case i have ,-my opinion of a scope in no way represents what i think of you or your ability or your choice in equipment--particularly when it comes to shooting gear that makes you happy & works for you...!!! :D
There are many folk out there who think the scope ive chosen is a roughed up coke bottle to look through...but we are both happy with our respective optic choices (well except my dud bushnell cheapie) & thats what counts...as it is im a porper anyway so mostly use cheap scopes, whether i like it or not :drinks:


Nothing you said offended me, I just felt you reviewed the scope unfairly for what most people looking for a sub-$300 scope need or want. Technology has improved out of sight in recent decades and even the cheap modern scopes are often better than what we used to think were the very best scopes. I have a Redfield Revolution scope that is absolute garbage, but I also know others that swear by the same scope - mine was certainly a dud. It has no features I want or need in a scope though and is not something I would (or did) buy, it came for free in a package deal on the Ruger American 7mm-08, and at $525 I do mean the scope was literally free :-)

I very much prefer to spend my money buying more rifles, and feeding them, than filling my safes with $1000 scopes I don't need. If this scope didn't do everything I ask of it, and do it very well, I would've continued searching for something that does. There are many, many more shooters using cheaper scopes very successfully, than there are using expensive ones. If money were of no importance to me I'd very happily mount the top-end Bushnells on all my rifles. It's the same reasoning for not buying Lapua brass and Berger bullets for everyday shooting, they give me nothing I don't already get from PPU, Hornady, S&B or Norma, and I can get a lot more of those for my money. If and when I decide I want to punch holes in paper at 1000m, then I'll look at spending on those components.
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Re: Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

Post by Stix » 19 Jun 2018, 11:18 pm

Cool... :D
Im same as you in the filling & feeding dept instead of expensive scopes... :thumbsup:
Although i will buy a really good one (scope), ............one day...
I literally cant make out so many foxes at sometimes only 300 yards in stubble or feed, out to 400-450 that id be well confident of tipping over all because the cheap scopes cant resolve enough contrast through lack of quality glass...so id love a high end light sucking piece of glass to swap between a couple of varmint/spotlighting rifles.

My last outing weekend last, i had 4 foxes sitting out at 400 yards before i got to make my bed, couldnt make any outline...so i need to buy a good one...trouble is other rifles & lack of funds get in the way...!! :violin:
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Re: Bushnell AR optics 4.5x18 (6.5 CREED)

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jun 2018, 11:54 pm

Stix wrote:My last outing weekend last, i had 4 foxes sitting out at 400 yards before i got to make my bed, couldnt make any outline...so i need to buy a good one...trouble is other rifles & lack of funds get in the way...!! :violin:


I very often spot the red dogs by eye out to 700m (there are trees along the creek so I can't see beyond it). Then I sneak around the terrain to get close enough for a shot. If they're hiding in the bushes they're harder to pick out by eye, but the scope brings them out just fine. The foxes around here generally live in a bubble that rarely seems to exceed about 300m, further than that and they just don't seem to notice me at all. Very often their bubble of awareness is much, much closer than that. It's very unlikely I would try a shot much further than 300m on a live target though.
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