Scope Mounted Red Dot

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Gaznazdiak » 06 May 2018, 4:20 pm

I have seen military rifles with a red dot type sight mounted onto a scope, presumably as a short range, target of opportunity type arrangement.
Does anyone here have such a setup?
Is it worth the expense? Are there any non-obvious drawbacks to such a configuration?
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by bladeracer » 06 May 2018, 6:43 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:I have seen military rifles with a red dot type sight mounted onto a scope, presumably as a short range, target of opportunity type arrangement.
Does anyone here have such a setup?
Is it worth the expense? Are there any non-obvious drawbacks to such a configuration?


Doesn't have to be mounted off the scope, and I prefer to separate them so whatever knocked out your primary scope has hopefully not affected your back-up as well. I've tried red dot, reflex, back-up irons, and even fine-focus torches and lasers as secondary sights. I've also mounted scopes that don't obstruct the OEM iron sights. I've always come back to back-up iron sights, but I don't shoot in the dark or poor light. The reflex and red dots lack precision even under bench conditions, but for snap shots at medium game at sub-scope ranges they'd be fine - say 30m or less. The red dot's are bulky things to be hanging off the rifle though. The reflex is much smaller. One problem for me with the reflex is that you need to have it switched on all the time, I think some red dot's require power to see a reticle as well. If I could rig up a switch on the grip so I could have it come on only when required that would work better.

I have a 2000Lm torch that can be focused down to a square-meter of light at 50m, so at very close ranges it could be effective on medium or large game, much like a laser. But both of these don't work if you have to lead your target, if you're aiming ahead of your target you can't see it. The laser is visible in daylight to 100m when target shooting, but far, far less under field conditions.

But flip-up iron sights mounted at 45-degrees to the right of the scope are very compact, and there all the time, even when you remove a broken scope, and they don't require batteries. I prefer to mount both over the action. This gives a pistol-like sight radius but doesn't require hanging the front sight off the barrel. You can also carry pic-rail back-up sights off the rifle and mount them only if your scope is knocked out, without significant loss of zero. This also true of red dot and reflex sights though.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Gaznazdiak » 06 May 2018, 7:08 pm

Hey Bladeracer,
I had not given thought to the vagaries of the zero of reflex type sights. Something else to add to the equation.
I am, as you mentioned, thinking of sub-zero range, pop-up targets of opportunity. Though there are few enough of those.

Having driven all the ferals on the 3000 acres I hunt into total nocturnal behaviour by constant daylight hunting pressure, I am considering some form of night sight to try to catch them out.
There are rabbit scratch holes everywhere, but never a one to be seen before sundown.

The remains of those I do catch unawares are always gone the next day so there are plenty of carnivores about after dark as well.
Perhaps I need to forget about red dots and concentrate on IR instead.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Bent Arrow » 06 May 2018, 8:08 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Hey Bladeracer,
I had not given thought to the vagaries of the zero of reflex type sights. Something else to add to the equation.
I am, as you mentioned, thinking of sub-zero range, pop-up targets of opportunity. Though there are few enough of those.

Having driven all the ferals on the 3000 acres I hunt into total nocturnal behaviour by constant daylight hunting pressure, I am considering some form of night sight to try to catch them out.
There are rabbit scratch holes everywhere, but never a one to be seen before sundown.

The remains of those I do catch unawares are always gone the next day so there are plenty of carnivores about after dark as well.
Perhaps I need to forget about red dots and concentrate on IR instead.


Forget the red dot for night time hunting. I've got one on my savage 42 and it's good during the day but near on useless at night. The flare off of the dot across the lens makes target acquisition really hard. I originally thought it just meant mine was a cheap piece of crap and I needed to up the $ but from the small amount of reading I've been doing it's pretty common on red dots
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Gaznazdiak » 06 May 2018, 8:35 pm

Hey BA,
I imagine having it projected into your eye wouldn't help your night vision either.
I was actually thinking of it for day use, but as stated in a previous post I've not seen one above ground in the daylight for some time, and the survivors are now growing light shy as well, so it's looking like something like the NiteSite or similar IR device might be in order.
A thermal would be ideal but the current prices make them an unrealistic proposal for an average amateur like myself.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by brett1868 » 06 May 2018, 8:41 pm

SPUHR one piece bases allow the mounting of accessories including a red dot. They have bases for Burris / Doctor & Trijicon RMR or there's a picatiny add-on to you can mount whatever you like to it.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Bent Arrow » 06 May 2018, 9:29 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Hey BA,
I imagine having it projected into your eye wouldn't help your night vision either.
I was actually thinking of it for day use, but as stated in a previous post I've not seen one above ground in the daylight for some time, and the survivors are now growing light shy as well, so it's looking like something like the NiteSite or similar IR device might be in order.
A thermal would be ideal but the current prices make them an unrealistic proposal for an average amateur like myself.


I didn't notice an impact on my night vision, I'm using it with a led torch as the spotlight anyway. It's just that the dot flares across the lens, and even with the dot turned off, the light transmission through the lens is not very good.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Gaznazdiak » 07 May 2018, 8:39 am

brett1868 wrote:SPUHR one piece bases allow the mounting of accessories including a red dot. They have bases for Burris / Doctor & Trijicon RMR or there's a picatiny add-on to you can mount whatever you like to it.


Good looking units, the Swedes know how to build.
I like the built in level as well.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Baronvonrort » 07 May 2018, 3:58 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:I have seen military rifles with a red dot type sight mounted onto a scope, presumably as a short range, target of opportunity type arrangement.


Very common with sporting shooters in the US not just military.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by brett1868 » 08 May 2018, 10:49 pm

Some pics of my setup on the Hipster...You mainly see this type of setup in the US as it's popular on AR15's used for the 3 gun competitions. Red dot or open sights for the up close targets then switch to scope for the longer range shots. I've got this one zeroed to 25m not that ill actually use it but it's there if needed.

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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Gaznazdiak » 09 May 2018, 12:09 am

brett1868 wrote:Some pics of my setup on the Hipster...You mainly see this type of setup in the US as it's popular on AR15's used for the 3 gun competitions. Red dot or open sights for the up close targets then switch to scope for the longer range shots. I've got this one zeroed to 25m not that ill actually use it but it's there if needed.

IMG_4303.jpg


IMG_4304.jpg


Duhh type question:
Zero setup similar to scope?
I imagine the dot sight has elevation and windage adjustment?
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by bladeracer » 09 May 2018, 1:38 am

Gaznazdiak wrote:Duhh type question:
Zero setup similar to scope?
I imagine the dot sight has elevation and windage adjustment?


Yep, most sights are adjustable, even on pistols. I can't think of any optical sights that aren't.

When I'm messing with sights I like to mount the laser on the rifle, zeroing it to the scope/sights I'm replacing. Then I can put on the new sight and zero that back to the laser. Rarely do I need further adjustment.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by Gaznazdiak » 09 May 2018, 9:44 am

bladeracer wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:Duhh type question:
Zero setup similar to scope?
I imagine the dot sight has elevation and windage adjustment?


Yep, most sights are adjustable, even on pistols. I can't think of any optical sights that aren't.

When I'm messing with sights I like to mount the laser on the rifle, zeroing it to the scope/sights I'm replacing. Then I can put on the new sight and zero that back to the laser. Rarely do I need further adjustment.


:thumbsup:
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by brett1868 » 09 May 2018, 11:23 am

Setting the zero on the red dot was piss easy, Put at 25m, fire a shot then adjust. What I do find it handy for is in locating the target when the main scope is wound up to 50x, saves me having to back off the zoom.
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by AusTac » 09 May 2018, 12:42 pm

Drool :P hows the cheek weld with rigs like that?
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Re: Scope Mounted Red Dot

Post by brett1868 » 09 May 2018, 1:27 pm

AusTac wrote:Drool :P hows the cheek weld with rigs like that?


Adjustable and rounded so no problems at all :D
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