Ziege wrote:I think that you will find the pistol is more of a fashion accessory than something they're intended to use. Having it is a deterrent and a means of passively suppressing/intimidating any would be criminals. If they're anything like the police, then they would be close to completely useless with the pistol outside of a few meters anyway, yet to see a cop (besides ones that actively compete) that can actually shoot, If I were ever in an area where police were going to fire on a suspect I would be diving for the densest cover I can find lest I be accidentally shot by said officer. same goes for security guards.
SAnewb85 wrote:When the shtf and seconds count, cops are minutes away....... i believe in that statement to my very core.
BangWhizzClack wrote:This thread... what a joke :p I'd to keen to hear the opinion of lawyers who have dealt with such cases. So many people here are trying to put the fear of God into people. I will put it down to poor past representation and not enough cases to settle and set a precedent.
Firearms are not a "deterrent," they are not there to threaten people. They are there to end the threat of an aggressor should you reasonably believe that you or another person are in danger of grevious bodily harm or death. Anybody with the slightest bit of experience shooting could tell you when shooting a revolver or even a da/sa semi-auto, it is for more accurate and controlled to fire in a single action manner. Double action under stress could lead to less of a controlled shot and throw the barrel off target. I strongly recommend all shooters; civilian, security, police or military to subscribe to "Active Self Protection" on YouTube, they breakdown situations caught on camera, they do excellent work.
If you reasonably believe that you are in danger, you pull your firearm and you defend yourself if you have to. Compliance can work out for you but you are putting your fate in the hands of the aggressor(s) and quite often that doesn't work out. It is far more unreasonable to put your life in the hands of someone like that instead of defending yourself. You will be scrutinised in court but that is what the court is there for (sometimes) to come up with evidence and facts to determine whether laws were broken and/or the defendent had a genuine defence.
BangWhizzClack wrote:In IPSC is that because it was just more effective to shoot the first round in DA rather than taking the time to cock the gun or rack the slide? I'm unsure of the rules for IPSC as I've only watched, never participated in IPSC.
BangWhizzClack wrote:What semi-auto pistol do you use? Also do you have any experience in the security/police/military arena's?
bladeracer wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:What semi-auto pistol do you use? Also do you have any experience in the security/police/military arena's?
Mine was a CZ85 clone made by Tanfoglio, 17+1 of 9mm Para. I stopped pistol shooting in 2003.
BangWhizzClack wrote:bladeracer wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:What semi-auto pistol do you use? Also do you have any experience in the security/police/military arena's?
Mine was a CZ85 clone made by Tanfoglio, 17+1 of 9mm Para. I stopped pistol shooting in 2003.
That sucks that you stopped. Were 17+1's legal in '03? Or was that because you have a special need for it?
BangWhizzClack wrote:I'm guessing you wouldn't consider getting back into it? What do you shoot nowadays?
BangWhizzClack wrote:Okay, with collectors licences you aren't allowed to own ammo for the firearm obtained for collection purposes, but let's say you got a pump action for a collection but you already own a 12g double barrel or lever action, any idea what the go is there?
BangWhizzClack wrote:So if you were to get a collector license for A/B/C/D/H all firearms would become collector's items? And you can only fire them at club events?
bladeracer wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:So if you were to get a collector license for A/B/C/D/H all firearms would become collector's items? And you can only fire them at club events?
Not quite. I have a fair number of CatB firearms, requiring an additional letter to Firearms explaining why I want another one every time I buy one (this requirement occurs after your fifteenth CatB firearm). I believe they would insist that if I had a collectors licence I should move a lot of my firearms onto it, for no reason I can fathom, other than to make them legally unusable on the farm.
BangWhizzClack wrote:In IPSC is that because it was just more effective to shoot the first round in DA rather than taking the time to cock the gun or rack the slide? I'm unsure of the rules for IPSC as I've only watched, never participated in IPSC.
Diamond Jim wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:In IPSC is that because it was just more effective to shoot the first round in DA rather than taking the time to cock the gun or rack the slide? I'm unsure of the rules for IPSC as I've only watched, never participated in IPSC.
In 22 years of shooting IPSC I think I've only ever fired my revolver single action a couple of times on long range targets (for IPSC that is - maybe 25m or so) and only on those little steel poppers or plates (they are bastards of things). Nobody uses single action in that game and it's not unheard of for revolvers to be converted to double action only.
BangWhizzClack wrote:Diamond Jim wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:In IPSC is that because it was just more effective to shoot the first round in DA rather than taking the time to cock the gun or rack the slide? I'm unsure of the rules for IPSC as I've only watched, never participated in IPSC.
In 22 years of shooting IPSC I think I've only ever fired my revolver single action a couple of times on long range targets (for IPSC that is - maybe 25m or so) and only on those little steel poppers or plates (they are bastards of things). Nobody uses single action in that game and it's not unheard of for revolvers to be converted to double action only.
Did you get a trigger job done or buy a nice gun with a light trigger? DA with a heavy ass trigger will seriously affect accuracy, while not necessarily totally off target as most defensive shootings are within the 6.5m mark, armed with gun or sharp implement. It can be enough to go from an effectively placed shot or shots that stops the target, to one that just pisses them off.
BangWhizzClack wrote:Okay, I've only shot pistols at 25m I think (not including air pistol) I really prefer SA, it's just less pressure on the trigger, which means less pressure pushing the point of aim elsewhere.
bladeracer wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:Okay, I've only shot pistols at 25m I think (not including air pistol) I really prefer SA, it's just less pressure on the trigger, which means less pressure pushing the point of aim elsewhere.
I used to practice taking head shots on the old-style IPSC silhouettes at 80m, handguns can group very decently.
BangWhizzClack wrote:bladeracer wrote:BangWhizzClack wrote:Okay, I've only shot pistols at 25m I think (not including air pistol) I really prefer SA, it's just less pressure on the trigger, which means less pressure pushing the point of aim elsewhere.
I used to practice taking head shots on the old-style IPSC silhouettes at 80m, handguns can group very decently.
That's not something I'd mention in court hahaha. But yes, in a controlled environment it possible to do a lot of things, in a defensive situation, not so much.
BangWhizzClack wrote:I think there is a big difference between IPSC and a defensive shooting scenario, while the pressure and speed can certainly help, here are some differences.
Targets can be movers but it's difficult. The easiest is a swinger triggered by dropping a steel popper, then it swings in and out of cover behind no-shoot targets.
IPSC:
- You know the course of action and when you can start shooting
- You know all back drops behind the targets are safe
- There is a strong focus on safety, but not nearly as high as a public shooting.
- Targets are typically stationary
- Target is not a threat
- Speed holsters are used
- Shooter is typically fresh and ready
Defensive shooting:
- Bad guy(s)/girl(s) (inclusive haha) have the element of surprise and get to choose the time and place of attack.
- Usually the back drops in a public setting are unsafe or unknown
- Time is really of the essence so you cannot think about things for too long.
- Fear of severe punishishment
- Adrenaline Surging
- Target(s) could be moving around in multiple positions (not typical in robberies, but pro's would use this tactic)
- Holster could be sticky and slow
- Could be at the end of a long shift after a hot day in sweaty, stinky, uncomfortable armour the day after an intense leg day and your partner cheating on you (not fresh and ready).