CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Semi automatic and single shot handguns, revolvers and other pistols

CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Allan mac » 13 Nov 2020, 8:56 pm

I am using aps350 behind 123flat pt. and getting tumbling with suggested adi data, however increased by 50% to get power factor and no tumbling. I am wondering if anyone has come across this? ALso I have slugged the barrel to find it is .357. Makes for interesting loading of 9ml cases
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Macross » 15 Nov 2020, 12:59 pm

I have been running APS450 in my shadow 2 without any issues for ages. Max load for 450 of 4.0gr meets PF on paper... where as you are going over max with 350. Id tend to move to 450 rather than overload with 350 for the same result.

I have done up some light target loads, as low as 3.3gr with 450 and never seen any tumbling or issues cycling.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Allan mac » 16 Nov 2020, 7:50 pm

Thanks for the response I have been using 123grain Flat point Demon projectiles and started off with 2.6grains of APS350 ailed to cycle correctly and tumbled finished up going to 3.5 which rectified the problem no signs of pressure on the case but had to go to 3.6 to get power factor and thinking of trying AP 70 but not sure what to load just yet
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Sarco » 16 Nov 2020, 8:24 pm

ADI indicate, from a 4 in barrel with AP70, 3.8gn for 993fps min and 4.3gn max for 1096fps. Power factor would be 123 - 137 (if I calculated right). 5in barrel in theory will give a little higher velocity but don't know how much.

In practice from a 6in barrel (H&K USP Expert), I have found velocities around 1100 with 4.0gn AP70.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Allan mac » 18 Nov 2020, 7:17 pm

I am trying a ransom rest this weekend with the aps350 fingers crossed. I will try ap70 if they don't group. Another fellow shooters has been resizing his .357. Projectiles down to .356 for competition, works for him. May try it any thoughts?
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Sarco » 18 Nov 2020, 8:44 pm

Not having a CZ, cannot be sure, but I mainly use 125gn lead flat point sized at 357 (Vindicator brand) in both my Glock17A and the H&K. Though I also use some 115gn LSWC (also Vindicator) sized at 356 and they also seem to go well and at times, because I can, Berry's plated 125gn flat points which are also 357 but seem to go well in the H&K, I haven't really tried them much in the Glock yet, they also go really well in the mates STI Trojan.

The chambers/throats of both the Glock and the H&K are probably quite a bit more tolerant of the 357 projectiles than the CZ may be. If you can get the projectiles resized or get some in 355 - 356, certainly give them a try.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Allan mac » 23 Nov 2020, 1:35 pm

unfortunately my effort to use the ransom rest did not pan out as they did not have the grips for the cz bummer. I will try a rest this coming week. I will let you know if the .356 projectiles work ok.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Allan mac » 02 Dec 2020, 5:05 pm

I tried projectiles sized .356 .357 using ap70 a pressed to split the diffence. I don't have a lot of ap70, I have sourced the aps450. Which will keep loading well into the future. I will try 3.5behind 123 gr flat points and work my way up. Fingers crossed.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Zappa » 07 Dec 2020, 10:13 am

Pardon my ignorance, what's tumbling?

I also have a Shadow 2 and up until now have been shooting factory ammo. I recently bought a press and looking into reloading.
I was advised to use ADI APS 70 or the APS650 whenever it comes out. i am trouble getting both.

Is anyone experiencing issues with getting powder atm ?
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Macross » 07 Dec 2020, 2:05 pm

Zappa wrote:Pardon my ignorance, what's tumbling?

I also have a Shadow 2 and up until now have been shooting factory ammo. I recently bought a press and looking into reloading.
I was advised to use ADI APS 70 or the APS650 whenever it comes out. i am trouble getting both.

Is anyone experiencing issues with getting powder atm ?


Tumbling is when the projectile dosnt stabalise in flight and can begin to wobble, or in worst case, tumble end over end. Can be caused by numerous factors. It impacts both accuracy and effectiveness of the round.

As far as I am aware, AP70 is no longer being made. You will only find old stock, but most of it has already been hoarded i would imagine. ADI announced that they were combining the pistol and shotgun products into a common APS range.... as mentioned, I have been using APS450 for 9mm and .357 and its been great. I know a lot of they guys at our club have been using 450 for a while now and had no issues.

Expect powder and other components like primers to start to become hard to get over the next few months... The shortages in the US will filter down to us eventually. Wholesalers like NIOA still have lots of primers from what I hear so it may not be for 6-8 months or longer but it will hit us eventually. Personally, i have stocked up and made sure I have about 12 months worth of reloading supplies at all times... as I use a brick of primers i refill my stash and grab one extra for the winter :)
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by rc42 » 07 Dec 2020, 4:05 pm

End over end tumbling can also be known as key-holing due to the very distinct elongated hole shapes left in the target as the projectile goes through sideways, more common for rifle projectiles but a clear sign that the combination of powder charge, projectile weight and barrel twist rate is wrong.

Isn't ADI powder made in Australia? hopefully that won't be hit by shortages, especially as people buy less because they can't get hold of primers.

CCI ammo and primers seem to be getting harder to find already but the Federal equivalents seem to be readily available (for now anyway)
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Zappa » 08 Dec 2020, 5:33 am

cheers.what's with the shortage of reloading supplies especially primers in the USA?
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by rc42 » 08 Dec 2020, 8:12 am

Just supply and demand meeting a perfect storm scenario.

Supply is restricted by manufacturing capacity which has moved to 24/7 operation at most manufacturers but the supply chain for primers has now become the bottleneck.

On the demand side there's a perfect storm:
US elections always create a demand peak, especially if it looks like Democrats are getting into power.
Covid-19, Civil unrest and 'defund police' demands making people want to own a firearm for self protection so millions of new first time firearm owners all wanting ammo
And reports that supplies are running out and may not be back for years is causing people to stock up whenever they can and increasing demand further. (worse than the toilet paper rush)
Plus the US government has increased its ammo stockpiles and it gets first pick at everything


After 6-12 months the shortages will spread to the rest of the world, it will likely get quite bad here too.
Some US manufacturers already have an 18 month lag for meeting any new orders and that's increasing daily.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Zappa » 08 Dec 2020, 9:06 am

rc42 wrote:US elections always create a demand peak, especially if it looks like Democrats are getting into power.
Covid-19, Civil unrest and 'defund police' demands making people want to own a firearm for self protection so millions of new first time firearm owners all wanting ammo

After 6-12 months the shortages will spread to the rest of the world, it will likely get quite bad here too.
Some US manufacturers already have an 18 month lag for meeting any new orders and that's increasing daily.


When Biden get's inaugurated ( looks likely ) , the Dems should come out to allay fears and debunk the myth that defunding the police, tougher gun laws will not happen. I've heard no such rhetoric or election promises leading up to his campaign so no real mandate to pursue. Leave that battle for the States to fight.

We need to put a stop on this crazy s**t - price gouging etc. I'm hoping when the overseas supply lines are restored, things will calm down and we would have dodged it :thumbsup:

Are we seeing price gouging in our local market and LGS ?
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by rc42 » 08 Dec 2020, 10:06 am

Prices are going up significantly as local dealers have to get new supplies from the wholesale importers.
It appears that dealers are just adding their normal margins and have to make a profit, manufacturing costs will have increased due to 24/7 operation as will all prices for raw materials. There will have been increases in transport costs at every step, all the way from the raw material mining to ammo arriving on the dealer's shelf.

Maybe nobody is price gouging.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by wanneroo » 08 Dec 2020, 2:14 pm

Zappa wrote:cheers.what's with the shortage of reloading supplies especially primers in the USA?


RC42 pegged the situation pretty good. Lots of different things going on here.

Being in the gun store business this year in the USA, as long as you can get stock, has been pretty good. I should have opened a gun store years ago, but oh well maybe someday. Or hoarded a shipping container of primers and then sold them now.

In regards to reloading, because a lot of people could not buy factory ammo they turned to reloading so reloading has seen a boom here in the USA as people seek to make their own ammo.

The primer issue I understand is due to primers being diverted to factory ammo production. However I hear gun stores in my state have been getting them in but they get sold out quickly.

I would expect anything from the USA will continue to see some strain for some time to come. Manufacturers though are cranking out product so it is still flowing out there. I'm still able to get bullets and most things I want.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Allan mac » 11 Dec 2020, 4:56 pm

finally got to try APS450 with 3.8 grains behind 123 flat point at 25 metres off barricade. Pleasantly surprised two inch group with one flyer which still split the 10 ring. I then tried 4.00 grains was not too bad 3 .5 inch. I will be sticking with the 3.8. I have yet to try the load over 50 metres.
I have tried 3.6 grains of AP70 behind 125 gr. semi wad-cutter 3.6 g. also another excellent group. they fed very well with no hangups. Lovely clean hole , easy to see in the unsighted series . . A shame they have stopped making it. I will be trying alliant hercules which is the same as AP 70????
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Zappa » 11 Jan 2021, 6:22 pm

Macross wrote:I have been running APS450 in my shadow 2 without any issues for ages. Max load for 450 of 4.0gr meets PF on paper... where as you are going over max with 350. Id tend to move to 450 rather than overload with 350 for the same result.

I have done up some light target loads, as low as 3.3gr with 450 and never seen any tumbling or issues cycling.


New reloader here.

I have hawwkesbury 115 gr conical projectiles using APS450N. According to the ADI spec sheet , max on those projectiles should be 3.5 grain for a 1018 fps travel.
This puts me in a PF of 117. A little below what's need for Service (120) .

Can I safely up the load to say 4.0 or even more ? I'm also shooting with a Shadow 2.

btw, Min load is 2.7 . Im thinking loading 10 rounds of 2.7, 10 of 2.9, 10 of 3,1 , 10 of 3.3 , 10 of 3,5 and so on until I reach 4.0 . to work out the sweet spot.
Is this a sane strategy?
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Bsoamab » 12 Jan 2021, 6:38 am

Zappa wrote:
Macross wrote:I have been running APS450 in my shadow 2 without any issues for ages. Max load for 450 of 4.0gr meets PF on paper... where as you are going over max with 350. Id tend to move to 450 rather than overload with 350 for the same result.

I have done up some light target loads, as low as 3.3gr with 450 and never seen any tumbling or issues cycling.


New reloader here.

I have hawwkesbury 115 gr conical projectiles using APS450N. According to the ADI spec sheet , max on those projectiles should be 3.5 grain for a 1018 fps travel.
This puts me in a PF of 117. A little below what's need for Service (120) .

Can I safely up the load to say 4.0 or even more ? I'm also shooting with a Shadow 2.

btw, Min load is 2.7 . Im thinking loading 10 rounds of 2.7, 10 of 2.9, 10 of 3,1 , 10 of 3.3 , 10 of 3,5 and so on until I reach 4.0 . to work out the sweet spot.
Is this a sane strategy?


Hi Zappa,

My personal experience says yes. I've done the same with my own experimentation and have gone up to 4.2 from 3.5 in 0.1 increments.

At 4.0gn APS450 with a 125gn projectile I'm getting around 140pf. My OAL is 1.130".

You'll need to work slowly looking for signs of overpressure. Things like flattened primers etc.

What your planning is sane. Just check and make small adjustments when changing grains to avoid a bigger boom than you want.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Zappa » 12 Jan 2021, 9:01 am

Bsoamab wrote:Hi Zappa,

My personal experience says yes. I've done the same with my own experimentation and have gone up to 4.2 from 3.5 in 0.1 increments.

At 4.0gn APS450 with a 125gn projectile I'm getting around 140pf. My OAL is 1.130".

You'll need to work slowly looking for signs of overpressure. Things like flattened primers etc.

What your planning is sane. Just check and make small adjustments when changing grains to avoid a bigger boom than you want.


thanks for the info. I might take it in smaller increments. How do I work out the OAL ? Is it just a matter of seating the bullet lower each time, until it goes 'clunk' in my Lyman ammo checker?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HfYAAOSw ... s-l400.jpg. I'd rather not take my barrel off and use that, if i can help it. :huh:
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Macross » 12 Jan 2021, 1:06 pm

I followed a guide to work out my max AOL and then just come back from there. Basiclly, take a fired case that you can get a projectile in without flaring and crimping. It should be albe to slide in and out a bit. Take your barrel, and gently slide the round into the chamber, pushing or seating the bullet as you go. Once you push it all the way down, gently take the round out and measure the AOL without pushing the projectile in any deeper. This is the longest you can seat rounds whilst not letting the projectile sit on the lands.

You should be able to drop a finished round into your barrel and freely turn it without it binding.... if its jaming up then the projectile is seated too high and is contacting the lands.
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Re: CZ Shadow 2 Reloading

Post by Zappa » 12 Jan 2021, 5:27 pm

Macross wrote:I followed a guide to work out my max AOL and then just come back from there. Basiclly, take a fired case that you can get a projectile in without flaring and crimping. It should be albe to slide in and out a bit. Take your barrel, and gently slide the round into the chamber, pushing or seating the bullet as you go. Once you push it all the way down, gently take the round out and measure the AOL without pushing the projectile in any deeper. This is the longest you can seat rounds whilst not letting the projectile sit on the lands.

You should be able to drop a finished round into your barrel and freely turn it without it binding.... if its jaming up then the projectile is seated too high and is contacting the lands.


Sage method. I'll give it a try. :thumbsup:
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