S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Semi automatic and single shot handguns, revolvers and other pistols

S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 08 May 2021, 8:21 pm

Currently training for pistol licence. Use the club S&W Victory and like it. Happy to buy one but they are around the $800+ mark new. Researching my first pistol purchase which will be a .22. Happy to buy 2nd hand to get extra goodies but wary of the dangers.
Let's say I'm in a position to sell some stuff to create the funds to purchase a top end firearm. What would be the impressions or advice from people who own or have used either of the following:

Smith & Wesson Model 41 - 5.5" barrel

or

Volquartsen Scorpion (or Black Mamba) in either 4.5 or 6" barrel

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by rc42 » 08 May 2021, 9:34 pm

Both great pistols and would serve you well for many years but you'd probably be better starting with something like a second hand Ruger Mark series, Buckmark or S&W Victory that you can use and abuse until you know which competitions you want to focus on.

In terms of just those specific pistols, the Volquartsens have muzzle compensators which improve fast shooting but aren't allowed for ISSF and some other matches beyond local club level, they are removable but without it the shorter 6" barrel model is left with only a 4.5" barrel which technically isn't legal for a semi-auto pistol in Australia.
The Scorpion is a pain to take down due to the Ruger Mk III base but the Mk IV based Mamba is a pleasure to use and really accurate (I have one).

Haven't used the Model 41 but I've seen them at the range and only ever heard good things about them, they are primarily designed for iron sight target use so getting a red dot will be more difficult that the Volquartsens which have built in rails.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Bugman » 09 May 2021, 10:20 am

have used the 41 extensively and found it very accurate but not so reliable. They appear to be inhibited by any small build up of residue and the one I had sometimes failed to eject properly at the most inconvenient of times.. Most shooters I know who also had 41's ended up selling them and investing in a Pardini SP.
And yes, I sold my 41.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 09 May 2021, 12:32 pm

rc42 wrote:Both great pistols and would serve you well for many years but you'd probably be better starting with something like a second hand Ruger Mark series, Buckmark or S&W Victory that you can use and abuse until you know which competitions you want to focus on.

In terms of just those specific pistols, the Volquartsens have muzzle compensators which improve fast shooting but aren't allowed for ISSF and some other matches beyond local club level, they are removable but without it the shorter 6" barrel model is left with only a 4.5" barrel which technically isn't legal for a semi-auto pistol in Australia.
The Scorpion is a pain to take down due to the Ruger Mk III base but the Mk IV based Mamba is a pleasure to use and really accurate (I have one).

Haven't used the Model 41 but I've seen them at the range and only ever heard good things about them, they are primarily designed for iron sight target use so getting a red dot will be more difficult that the Volquartsens which have built in rails.


Great advice. Thank you. I just shot a 474 in my 2nd NRA match at my local club with the club SW Victory so can't complain. Bashing one of these for the short term is a good idea.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 09 May 2021, 12:33 pm

Bugman wrote:have used the 41 extensively and found it very accurate but not so reliable. They appear to be inhibited by any small build up of residue and the one I had sometimes failed to eject properly at the most inconvenient of times.. Most shooters I know who also had 41's ended up selling them and investing in a Pardini SP.
And yes, I sold my 41.


Very interesting. I hadn't heard this feedback about the Model 41 until now.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Macross » 09 May 2021, 9:48 pm

Black Mumba any day!! As already mentioned, the Scorpion is the older Mk 3 lower which is much more difficult to take down for cleaning. Mumba is a Mk 4 lower. Look for second hand Ruger mark 4. Its like lego in that you can buy and replace and tinker with just about any part of the gun, which is great when you are starting out.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 29 Nov 2021, 1:08 pm

Put a deposit on the Black Mamba TF - basically a Volquartsen Habu with the competition grips. Will submit pics when I get my hands on it.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Rwd22 » 01 Dec 2021, 6:32 pm

Good choice mate, I just got ahold of my Black Mamba a few weeks ago, shoots like an absolute dream. Keep waiting to see a TF in the flesh to see how it feels.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by rc42 » 01 Dec 2021, 8:48 pm

Top choice, for those with the budget but given the costs of club fees, ammo, licensing and even travel to and from the range over the next 5 years the up front of cost of a high end pistol doesn't seem bad at all. Plus you'll get higher scores and enjoy using it every time you shoot far more than a budget 'beater'

I have a Mark IV stainless lower with a Volquartsen LLV4 upper and all of the Volquartsen upgrades, it's just awesome. More and more people at the range are starting to go for the Mamba, you just can't get a better general use 22 semi-auto.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Macross » 02 Dec 2021, 2:47 pm

rc42 wrote:I have a Mark IV stainless lower with a Volquartsen LLV4 upper and all of the Volquartsen upgrades, it's just awesome. More and more people at the range are starting to go for the Mamba, you just can't get a better general use 22 semi-auto.

That sounds like a nice setup mate! got some pics... i have considered doing the same to our Stainless Target MkIV.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 24 May 2022, 11:18 am

Just got hold of the Volquartsen Black Mamba TF (target grips) and it's a beast. Took it to St Mary's Indoor and tried out several brands of ammo at 10 and 25m. Shot some very tight groups. Funnily enough, it shot very well with cheap and expensive ammo but didn't like CCI Standard or Browning. It cycled everything but the groups weren't as tight. Very happy with this purchase. Thanks everyone for the advice.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Rwd22 » 24 May 2022, 4:14 pm

Awesome! I'm hoping to get my hands on one shortly, my partner has claimed my Tungsten black mamba, so I'm hanging out for a TF now.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by brett1868 » 26 May 2022, 11:32 pm

What club are you a member of and what comps do you intend to shoot? I'd take a Volquartsen over a S&W any day of the week.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 27 May 2022, 8:53 am

Wyong District Pistol Club. Average facilities due to rented property but a great bunch of people of all ages. I want to get into any and all rimfire disciplines. Unfortunately, my club doesn't do all the ones I'm interested in due to space restrictions so I plan to visit other clubs as a guest. I'm really keen on IPSC so I think I'll have to go centrefire when I get my full licence in a month.

Back to the Mamba. Just shot 480 with 39 X's on 10 yard NRA TYRO. Best I've done so far. Was getting 470s+ with the club S&W Victory but the Mamba just rocks!
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by brett1868 » 27 May 2022, 12:33 pm

Woden wrote:Wyong District Pistol Club. Average facilities due to rented property but a great bunch of people of all ages. I want to get into any and all rimfire disciplines. Unfortunately, my club doesn't do all the ones I'm interested in due to space restrictions so I plan to visit other clubs as a guest. I'm really keen on IPSC so I think I'll have to go centrefire when I get my full licence in a month.

Back to the Mamba. Just shot 480 with 39 X's on 10 yard NRA TYRO. Best I've done so far. Was getting 470s+ with the club S&W Victory but the Mamba just rocks!


I have the Volquartsen 1911 Scorpion 6" amongst many other pistols and it's a tack driver, some will say that because it's based on a Ruger Mk.3 that take down is difficult but that's not the case as it's a far better quality build compared to the Ruger. I'm not a fan of the Victory due to the screw that holds them together can seize or strip the hex, I've had to drill out 2 now for friends and it's a painful exercise. Enjoy the sport and get as much trigger time as possible.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by Woden » 27 May 2022, 4:55 pm

Thanks brett1868. I found I kept hitting the safety when I was using the S&W Victory. That was quite annoying. I'm having a great time with the Black Mamba TF. The target grips are really comfortable.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by dnedative » 27 May 2022, 7:10 pm

brett1868 wrote:
Woden wrote:I have the Volquartsen 1911 Scorpion 6" amongst many other pistols and it's a tack driver, some will say that because it's based on a Ruger Mk.3 that take down is difficult but that's not the case as it's a far better quality build compared to the Ruger



The take down for Ruger MK1-III pistols involve the use of a hammer and unless yours has been pulled apart a thousand times - a brass punch.
Back in the 1950's your average gun owner probably adjusted the valves in his car following the instructions in the owners manual, these days people dead set are unsure about how to change a tyre on the side of the road.

Early Ruger pistols are fantastic, I own one but they are not 2022 consumer friendly. I reckon gunsmiths have made a fortune over the years from people who pulled the bolt out and couldn't figure out how to drop the hammer and get the spur lined up with the mainspring housing correctly. I wouldnt advise putting the Volquartsen trigger and hammer in one either if your not used to somewhat complex mechanisms.
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Re: S&W Model 41 or Volquartsen Scorpion

Post by rc42 » 28 May 2022, 7:52 pm

It's both funny and depressing that a generation ago the car manuals did explain things like how to adjust the valves but the latest ones have to tell owners not to drink the contents of the battery.

I've heard that the triggers on the Mk II were the best that any of the series ever had with the lawyers getting involved and the Mk III and IV triggers getting ever heavier. I've had two Mk IVs and the factory triggers were awful and were transformed by the Volquartsen replacement. The takedown is a pure joy though and has to be performed in front of any owner of an earlier series, just to see their jaws drop.
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