How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range time?

Semi automatic and single shot handguns, revolvers and other pistols

How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range time?

Post by jwai86 » 16 Apr 2022, 12:14 am

So it turns out that I have a noticeable flinch after it was identified by having someone load up a magazine for me with a snap cap slipped in, and seeing what happens when I shoot off the rounds.

I was told that a flinch can be trained out with sufficient practice, but I can't see how that can be achieved before the heat death of the universe when all the practice I can currently get is 50 rounds' worth of shooting once a week during club meets, and I'm not legally at the point where I can use the range outside of club meets or dry fire at home.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by No1Mk3 » 16 Apr 2022, 2:14 am

50 rounds a week under supervision should be more than enough to focus on controlling your trigger action and recognizing and overcoming a flinch. I have trained shooters on 20 rounds a month to improve their skills. As for home, practice trigger control with a rifle, kids toy, replica (if NSW law allows you) nail gun, especially a Paslode etc. If possible going back to a 22 may help as well, but listen to your instructor and focus on your trigger pull, nice and even and controlled. Cheers.
No1Mk3
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2090
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Rwd22 » 16 Apr 2022, 6:55 am

As No1Mk3 mentioned, 22lr is one of the best tools for training your trigger pull.

Whether some like it or not, a small flinch is actually important to recoil management, but it's important to determine whether the flinch is after the shot has broken, or before.

If I'm feeling rusty on a particular day or I'm shooting a gun I'm unfamiliar with, I get in some dry fire on the shooting line before live fire gets underway. This may take 3-4 trigger pulls, or it might be 5-10, I do it until I'm sufficiently happy with my steadiness.

As an additional note: Who cares? As far as I can tell you are fairly new to shooting, having an adverse reaction to something going bang in your hand is completely normal. You've identified there is an issue there, work on it slowly, but don't let that detract from your overall experience. Shooting should be fun.
Rwd22
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 148
Queensland

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Bugman » 16 Apr 2022, 7:31 am

Good advice there. When "newbies" come to the club I belong to, serious time is spent with air pistols as training with these will greatly improve your shooting mechanics. Too many new shooters jump straight in without learning the basics if pistol shooting and wonder why they get frustrated.
User avatar
Bugman
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1071
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Blr243 » 17 Apr 2022, 3:51 pm

Getting something done in a short time frame possibly forces u to work better at while u are there because u have limited time . Otherwise you could be sort of trying to fix it while randomly throwing lead down range
Blr243
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4479
Queensland

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by 308M8 » 18 Apr 2022, 2:13 pm

Forget the flinch. If you concentrate on the sights and target while gently sqeezing the trigger, the Bang will be a surprise.
308M8
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 2
Queensland

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by rc42 » 18 Apr 2022, 3:07 pm

Dry firing practice will help to build the muscle memory for trigger pulls without flinch or recoil anticipation, when you do live fire concentrate on sight picture and slow and steady trigger pull, let the discharge almost come as a surprise and follow through as best you can.

If you can randomly insert some non-firing rounds into your magazine or cylinder (or better get somebody else to put it in for you) it will show you very clearly how you are making progress.
rc42
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 794
Queensland

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Bugman » 18 Apr 2022, 3:24 pm

I take it your referring to the CZ you are acquiring. The one thing that puzzles me is that you have not been issued with a Provisional Pistol Licence and that when you do get it, you will have to wait 6 months before you can apply for a PTA for your first pistol(s). Once the 6 months is up and you apply for a PTA, being your first pistol(s) the permit will take possibly 6-8 weeks (unless this changes in the meantime), so all up it would be around another 8-9 months before you can take the gun home etc and practice at more regular intervals.
Have you tried making an arrangement with your club to allow more time to correct your concerns etc?
And please correct me if I am wrong about this current arrangement.
User avatar
Bugman
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1071
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 18 Apr 2022, 7:14 pm

Bugman wrote:I take it your referring to the CZ you are acquiring. The one thing that puzzles me is that you have not been issued with a Provisional Pistol Licence and that when you do get it, you will have to wait 6 months before you can apply for a PTA for your first pistol(s). Once the 6 months is up and you apply for a PTA, being your first pistol(s) the permit will take possibly 6-8 weeks (unless this changes in the meantime), so all up it would be around another 8-9 months before you can take the gun home etc and practice at more regular intervals.
Have you tried making an arrangement with your club to allow more time to correct your concerns etc?
And please correct me if I am wrong about this current arrangement.

I've purchased the CZ 75B, but it is registered as being owned by my club and stored with their other handguns until I have my PPL and enough time passes for me to submit a PTA to own it outright. As you've already mentioned, the timeframe for all of that will keep getting pushed further back while the current limbo with my licence applications remains unresolved.

I'm more distressed that I've only found out about the flinching after more than a year shooting, and have no idea how much practice it will take to train it out given that I am still limited to doing so once a week.

As others have already mentioned, dropping down to using a rimfire pistol would be a good idea, but I have lost confidence in the club's collection of rimfire semi-automatic pistols (mostly the S&W Model 22A). So many practice sessions have turned into nothing but malfunction drills because the pistols have been flogged so much and maintained so infrequently.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by JimmyS » 19 Apr 2022, 11:15 am

50 rounds a week is enough to fix your flinch.
Dry firing is also advisable, as stated in a comment above, gets your muscle memory up to speed.

Focus on your sight picture, breathing, and trigger pull. Get the fear of the "pop" out of your head, don't anticipate it.
This will take active focus, you'll need to think about it for a few hundred rounds or so, then it'll just become second nature.
User avatar
JimmyS
Private
Private
 
Posts: 87
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by ob1 » 19 Apr 2022, 12:14 pm

Stop concentrating on hitting a spot on the target. Focus entirely on the sights and try to have the sights aligned perfectly every time the gun fires as you slowly squeeze the trigger. Treat the target as just a background to your sights, ignore it, where the bullet hits on the target is irrelevant while you concentrate on trying for 50 shots of perfect sight alignment. Sight focus only, ignore the target.
ob1
Private
Private
 
Posts: 87
Western Australia

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 1:09 pm

ob1 wrote:Stop concentrating on hitting a spot on the target. Focus entirely on the sights and try to have the sights aligned perfectly every time the gun fires as you slowly squeeze the trigger. Treat the target as just a background to your sights, ignore it, where the bullet hits on the target is irrelevant while you concentrate on trying for 50 shots of perfect sight alignment. Sight focus only, ignore the target.


Exactly. That's what I was taught many years ago and also many of my pistol shooting colleagues.
User avatar
Bugman
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1071
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2022, 2:59 pm

jwai86 wrote:I'm more distressed that I've only found out about the flinching after more than a year shooting, and have no idea how much practice it will take to train it out given that I am still limited to doing so once a week.


Is it actually affecting your shooting though?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 19 Apr 2022, 3:45 pm

bladeracer wrote:Is it actually affecting your shooting though?

What do you mean? Of course it does.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2022, 4:15 pm

jwai86 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Is it actually affecting your shooting though?

What do you mean? Of course it does.


But you never noticed it before in a year of shooting?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 19 Apr 2022, 4:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:But you never noticed it before in a year of shooting?

I didn't have the means to definitely confirm the presence of a flinch until I picked up some snap caps the other week and a very qualified club member (a retired Commando) got me to run the drill when he was showing me how to correctly position myself to shoot using one hand.

I think part of the flinching is from becoming wary of the ejecting brass. Getting hit by brass bouncing off the cubicle wall is usually a nuisance at most, but earlier this year, a hot cartridge got lodged in the space between my prescription glasses and my face, and caused a conspicuous burn close to my eye that took a couple of weeks to heal. I tried wearing safety glasses over my regular pair after that incident, but visibility through two pairs of glasses was poor, and the safety glasses were prone to fogging up inside the range, so I'm back to wearing just my usual glasses and hoping that nothing worse happens.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2022, 5:06 pm

jwai86 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:But you never noticed it before in a year of shooting?


I didn't have the means to definitely confirm the presence of a flinch until I picked up some snap caps the other week and a very qualified club member (a retired Commando) got me to run the drill when he was showing me how to correctly position myself to shoot using one hand.

I think part of the flinching is from becoming wary of the ejecting brass. Getting hit by brass bouncing off the cubicle wall is usually a nuisance at most, but earlier this year, a hot cartridge got lodged in the space between my prescription glasses and my face, and caused a conspicuous burn close to my eye that took a couple of weeks to heal. I tried wearing safety glasses over my regular pair after that incident, but visibility through two pairs of glasses was poor, and the safety glasses were prone to fogging up inside the range, so I'm back to wearing just my usual glasses and hoping that nothing worse happens.


Are you shooting IPSC or static target shooting? In IPSC a flinch might go missed but not matter anyway. In target shooting though it should be fairly obvious to the shooter, especially when you see where the bullet hole appears.

Yes, hot brass can be an issue, especially shooting in confined spaces.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 19 Apr 2022, 5:21 pm

bladeracer wrote:Are you shooting IPSC or static target shooting? In IPSC a flinch might go missed but not matter anyway. In target shooting though it should be fairly obvious to the shooter, especially when you see where the bullet hole appears.

Shooting paper at ranges between 10 and 25 metres. Encountering significant deviations from my point of aim is a very obvious indication that something is wrong, but narrowing down a specific cause from various possible factors is something else entirely, especially if you don't have the knowledge to do so.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 5:24 pm

Just out of curiosity...can the rear sight be adjusted?
User avatar
Bugman
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1071
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 19 Apr 2022, 5:29 pm

Bugman wrote:Just out of curiosity...can the rear sight be adjusted?

Yes it can, although I haven't yet dared to change whatever it's been set to. In any case, I've got a new set of sights coming in the post, so it makes more sense to get those installed first before making any changes to windage and elevation.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Apr 2022, 6:01 pm

Cast loads, lots of them, off hand.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Bugman » 19 Apr 2022, 6:30 pm

jwai86 wrote:
Bugman wrote:Just out of curiosity...can the rear sight be adjusted?

Yes it can, although I haven't yet dared to change whatever it's been set to. In any case, I've got a new set of sights coming in the post, so it makes more sense to get those installed first before making any changes to windage and elevation.

True.
User avatar
Bugman
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1071
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 20 Apr 2022, 7:55 pm

Something I would like to do once the new sights are fitted is set them for centre hold as the sight picture. I believe the current sights are set for a combat hold where the point of aim is the the front sight dot rather than the top edge of the front sight. All my previous instruction in handgun shooting has assumed the use of centre hold, and making precise shots using a combat hold is difficult when you have to aim by obscuring the bullseye.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by dnedative » 20 Apr 2022, 8:14 pm

If your shooting targets going for scores not hits you want a six o clock hold and you will generally tune it so you know where your at from 10-50 yards.
Center and combat holds are minute of man where you want a hit on a steel plate as easily as possible, little high or a little low, you dont care. Your never going to group as well with them.


I would just wait till you get your license, I wouldn't of bought a pistol without at-least a PPL though.
dnedative
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 258
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by bladeracer » 20 Apr 2022, 9:16 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Cast loads, lots of them, off hand.


That worked well for me as we had open access to the range throughout the week and I burned through tons of 9mm ammo on my own.

But with powder, primer and ammo shortages I don't think it's a realistic option currently.

Perhaps a few cases of .22LR offhand over open sights with rifles might be helpful though as a flinch becomes very obvious when shooting rifles offhand as well.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 21 Apr 2022, 5:03 pm

dnedative wrote:If your shooting targets going for scores not hits you want a six o clock hold and you will generally tune it so you know where your at from 10-50 yards.
Center and combat holds are minute of man where you want a hit on a steel plate as easily as possible, little high or a little low, you dont care. Your never going to group as well with them.

That may well be the case, but I'll be sticking to centre hold to be on the same page as the people who are teaching me in person.

I would just wait till you get your license, I wouldn't of bought a pistol without at-least a PPL though.

I have my reasons for doing it, but it's not like I made the purchase without knowing the risks or getting permission from the club beforehand.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by G-Swiss » 21 Apr 2022, 9:00 pm

jwai86 wrote:
I think part of the flinching is from becoming wary of the ejecting brass. Getting hit by brass bouncing off the cubicle wall is usually a nuisance at most, but earlier this year, a hot cartridge got lodged in the space between my prescription glasses and my face, and caused a conspicuous burn close to my eye that took a couple of weeks to heal. I tried wearing safety glasses over my regular pair after that incident, but visibility through two pairs of glasses was poor, and the safety glasses were prone to fogging up inside the range, so I'm back to wearing just my usual glasses and hoping that nothing worse happens.


Hey mate, I found the investment in a pair of prescription safety glasses for shooting was minor for the peace of mind. I found I was favouring my prescription glasses over my safety glasses at the range due to vision and that didn’t sit right with me. Eyes are irreplaceable! I chose a pair of Eyres through my local specsavers and they ran to about $250. Peanuts in the big scheme of things. I asked to take a few of their better fitting sample frames home to check the cheek weld on my rifles in prone, and they were happy to accomodate. Helps that my optometrist is also a shooter :D

Now I don’t have to compromise safety for vision.

Cheers G
G-Swiss
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 17
Other

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Larry » 22 Apr 2022, 11:00 am

To help fix a flinch place a 5c piece on the end of the barrel and dry fire. The aim is to not have the 5c fall off the barrel.
Larry
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 775
-

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by jwai86 » 26 Apr 2022, 2:34 pm

G-Swiss wrote:Hey mate, I found the investment in a pair of prescription safety glasses for shooting was minor for the peace of mind. I found I was favouring my prescription glasses over my safety glasses at the range due to vision and that didn’t sit right with me. Eyes are irreplaceable! I chose a pair of Eyres through my local specsavers and they ran to about $250. Peanuts in the big scheme of things. I asked to take a few of their better fitting sample frames home to check the cheek weld on my rifles in prone, and they were happy to accomodate. Helps that my optometrist is also a shooter :D

Now I don’t have to compromise safety for vision.

Cheers G

Last week, I tried wearing a cap into the range to absorb the sweat that often gets into my eyes, and to deflect some of the brass that might come my way. It doesn't block all the remaining gaps, but it's at least cheaper and immediately actionable.
Last edited by jwai86 on 26 Apr 2022, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jwai86
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 376
New South Wales

Re: How can I hope to fix a flinch without adequate range ti

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Apr 2022, 6:59 pm

Regarding prescription safety glasses.

Normal prescription glasses are not polycarbonate.

Safety glasses need to be polycarbonate inorder to comply.

I rejected some "prescription safety glasses" a few years back. They were cheating me.

Reason being they did not comply to the impact protection requirements. They were just non-polycarbonate prescription glasses fitted with side shields. So below par. And bloody expensive.

Ensure you get a certificate of compliance to medium impact under the Australian/NZ Standards. Sorry can't remember the number. ( 1337 I think)

BTW. Many so called shooting glasses are below that standard.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Pistols - Semi-automatic handguns and revolvers