How Quick Is Your Draw?

Semi automatic and single shot handguns, revolvers and other pistols

How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 07 Oct 2014, 4:39 pm

Fellow pistol shooters, how long does it take you to draw and fire your first round?

I've only been drawing from a holster for about a month and It takes me about 4 seconds to go from the surrender position, draw and put the first round on target. With practice I'll get better, hopefully :lol:

I'm using a duty style holster rather than a competition style which adds time to the draw but shouldn't add too much.

Also, if you have a training method I'd like to hear it. Currently I've been drawing and dry firing while aiming at a small point of aim across the room which has shaved a little time off my draw
.177, .22lr, .22-250R, 2x .308W, .30-30W, 7.62x54r, 8x56r, 9x19, .357 Mag, 12GA
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Chronos » 07 Oct 2014, 4:59 pm

best i got mine down to was about 1.5-1,6 sec but that was with an M&P striker fired 9mm and i did practice a fair bit. remember if you're shooting sa double action pistol to practice with it decocked. rules say you must shoot the first round double action, at least in production if i recall

and thats the key, draw and dry fire at home to build that muscle memory. as you've been doing put a dot on the wall, holster on and practice over and over about 10-20 times each session. this helps build muscle memory. but the key is you must get a good sight picture before you pull the trigger, that was the hardest for me and i'd be 6-8 seconds these days LOL

i didn't have an ispc timer but i used an app on my phone

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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 07 Oct 2014, 5:27 pm

Yeah I'm using a Glock so always double action lol

Nice 1.6 seconds is bloody fast. I started out really slow, took me a while to get my grip right and then sight acquisition. At first I had a bad habit of leading with my offhand and pushing the pistol out to meet it which is a massive problem. Sorted that out fast!
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Chronos » 07 Oct 2014, 5:59 pm

holster makes a bit of difference too, i was using a hogue race holster.

we used to book a whole range at the auburn shooting accademy every week for a while. we;d set uo some ispc targets and run drills like el presedente from hands up, 5-6 drills will see your times drop every time, after that you seem to get slower, more clumsy

i used to have some vids on my olf laptop, will see if i can find some. steel challenge is also a good match to speed up your draw because there's almost no movement to worry about.

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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Gwion » 07 Oct 2014, 6:24 pm

Hi guys. I'm not a pistol shooter but have trained precise movement to become automatic (perform them better when not thinking about them than when i am thinking about them) for many years.

The trick is to slow everything down. Do it exactly right (or as close as possible) every time and do it a gazillion times. You need many thousands of repetitions, repeated perfectly, to make it an automatic response. The faster you TRY to do something, the more mistakes you will make and you will only be training yourself to get it wrong.

Slow down, repeat it perfectly at least 100 times in every session. Speed will come on it's own over time. Only Perfect Practice make Perfect.

That's training. Then, when the gas is turned up, like in comp, you will be surprised how quickly it all just happens.

Hope that helps. I'm making no reference to shooting, just the training side of things.

Cheers
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 07 Oct 2014, 7:22 pm

Gwion wrote:Hi guys. I'm not a pistol shooter but have trained precise movement to become automatic (perform them better when not thinking about them than when i am thinking about them) for many years.

The trick is to slow everything down. Do it exactly right (or as close as possible) every time and do it a gazillion times. You need many thousands of repetitions, repeated perfectly, to make it an automatic response. The faster you TRY to do something, the more mistakes you will make and you will only be training yourself to get it wrong.

Slow down, repeat it perfectly at least 100 times in every session. Speed will come on it's own over time. Only Perfect Practice make Perfect.

That's training. Then, when the gas is turned up, like in comp, you will be surprised how quickly it all just happens.

Hope that helps. I'm making no reference to shooting, just the training side of things.

Cheers


Thanks for the input mate. I agree, no sense repeating the wrong movements. I must admit that when I started I tried to shoot faster by just yanking on the trigger faster
.177, .22lr, .22-250R, 2x .308W, .30-30W, 7.62x54r, 8x56r, 9x19, .357 Mag, 12GA
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by tom604 » 07 Oct 2014, 7:28 pm

there is a vid somewhere of a guy drawing and shooting then reholstering? in about a blink, he didnt have to aim at anything but he was quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGl8ocDWggM hope the link works ;)
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 07 Oct 2014, 8:11 pm

tom604 wrote:there is a vid somewhere of a guy drawing and shooting then reholstering? in about a blink, he didnt have to aim at anything but he was quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGl8ocDWggM hope the link works ;)


Wow. Shooting the quarter is a neat trick too
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by cavok » 07 Oct 2014, 10:04 pm

What distance are we talking about for the target placement, 10 metres, if you can not using a 1911, Glock M&P from a duty holster, draw and fire, strike centre in less than 3 seconds you were classed as dead. In IPSC using open holster, 1.5 seconds - 2 seconds at 10 metres with a A zone hit is only average to normal.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by cavok » 07 Oct 2014, 10:07 pm

Please note, if shooting at this distance, there is only a front sight, no rear sight, (tape over it to stop you looking for it) focus on placing the front sight on the point of aim and shoot, there is a secret to it. Placing the front sight in the centre of mass eliminates the eye looking to aim, at 10metres, pointy and shoot.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by cavok » 08 Oct 2014, 11:26 am

shootingthstraight.jpg
shootingthstraight.jpg (27.14 KiB) Viewed 5998 times
The draw:
Picture from the internet.
Depending on the style of shooting you wish to compete in, the draw, from a holster becomes a part of the string, a time component that must be exercised correctly, or precious seconds are lost. In some shooting especially in the course of ones employment it could be the difference between life and death.
Various shooting style require different holsters. Open front, duty, with restraining loop, race holsters. All require different skills and practice, as does all shooting or any other activity. All shooters have by now determined their particular shooting style, Service match, Bianchi Cup, IPCS, or Western action. All require a different holster, or mostly and this usually is a matter of the shooters choice, the available holsters is full of promises from various manufacturers who all indicate there's is the best, and all others inferior. Hence see what others are using, try a few till you find what fells good for you. In reality the nano second difference of one to another is just that, the shooter needs to feel comfortable with his choice.
The draw, from loaded start, from hand loose by the side or in the surrender position, till the first shot strikes the intended spot on a target is the measurement we are timing. A distance from the shooter to the target will determine the time taken, hence, the further the distance, the longer the time. So to begin, start at 10 metres.
The key to success is practice, muscle memory for retrieving the pistol from the holster, with the correct grip to enable the shooter to correctly hold and aim the firearm in such a manner to positively sight the pistol and hit the intended spot on a target. To then with the correct grip to proceeded to the next target comfortably, again hitting the position on the target aimed at. As you practice more, speed can be increased.
So in slow motion, from the intended start, with feet in a comfortable position, in a modified Weaver stance or some other suitable position, send the open hand down to the butt of the firearm, gripping the pistol high and tightly, finger outside the trigger guard, lift the pistol out of the holster. Once this is achieved the barrel is then immediately held horizontal to the ground, further lifted and pushed forward and at the same time with the dominant eye beginning to focus on the front sight and pushed forward at the same time as a correct sight picture is obtained, so the front sight is clear and the target slightly blurred. At the same time as the pistol is coming from the holster the weak hand joins the retrieving pistol hand on the left side of the pistol. The hand retrieving the pistol from the holster using a firm grip has the thumb held over the external safety, (if any) and the other hand joins the first hand so both thumbs are in to the left side of the pistol. As the target is acquired the trigger finger enters the trigger guard and once a good/ not perfect sight picture is obtained the trigger finger tightens and a shot is fired.

The above grip borrowed from the internet is a good and correct method of holding any semi automatic pistol. Some people of world class hold the weak hand fingers over the front of the trigger guard, this is how they feel comfortable as they have long fingers and is correct, as the full control is still obtained.
Utube has many such action draws using the correct method, and as to the time taken for this process it comes down to practice. After several 100 such exercises in the correct draw, your muscles and hands will automatically go to the correct position, it is up to you to shoot and hit the target, after 500/1000 such attempts your time should be around 1.5 to 2 seconds. However at a match, depending what level, some anxiety befalls the shooter, nerves come into play as we don’t want to be to slow, hence the shooter completely stuffs up and does not retrieve the pistol correctly and misses several shots. The moral to the story is relax, (if possible) practice more, and match practice is the best remedy. Some shooter have both arms locked in position when they shoot, both fully extended, some have the strong arm slightly bent, or the weak hand slightly bent, or both arms slightly bent, this mostly is a matter of comfort of the shooter and what suits them. Arguments will rage as to which is the correct stance or arm extensions, smile at those who tell you they know and see how your method suits you. We all started out at the learning level. A firm strong grip.
Last edited by cavok on 08 Oct 2014, 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Fozzy » 08 Oct 2014, 11:42 am

Im about 1.6-1.8 for A zone first hits.

I practice with 2 IPSC Targets and a timer One of the targets is reversed with the a zone cut out makes it easier to see my hits and misses.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 08 Oct 2014, 12:34 pm

Thanks for all the info Cavok. I shoot mostly at 25 yards so I've been practicing getting a full sight picture.

The grip you pictured there is the same as I am using. I had to change the placement of my strong hand thumb slightly today because it was riding the slide release lever and locking the slide back prematurely on occasion.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by cavok » 08 Oct 2014, 12:40 pm

Fozzy wrote:Im about 1.6-1.8 for A zone first hits.

I practice with 2 IPSC Targets and a timer One of the targets is reversed with the a zone cut out makes it easier to see my hits and misses.


You don't mention what distance you are practicing from, but 10 metres is good as most people can see the shot fall, and if you are a good shooter, mostly a shooter can call the placement correctly. Also at 10 metres I am of the opinion the A zone is to large, try half, irrespective of using a production or standard pistol. I also years ago taught that start with a full target and patch only the D zone area, then 1000 rounds latter patch only D and C zone, leave the A, that what your aiming at. With time at 10 metres there are no C & D hits, and then move to the next distance, then try double taps. All fun.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by cavok » 08 Oct 2014, 12:48 pm

Baldrick314 wrote:Thanks for all the info Cavok. I shoot mostly at 25 yards so I've been practicing getting a full sight picture.

The grip you pictured there is the same as I am using. I had to change the placement of my strong hand thumb slightly today because it was riding the slide release lever and locking the slide back prematurely on occasion.


What brand of pistol are you using, that's why when shooting a 1911, I always insist a new shooter places his/her thumb on the external safety, any other place is inappropriate. Guess your next move is the double tap, try that at 10 or 15 metres, with time I have seen the top shooters do this at 25 metres, makes a person want to cry when they can do it, I have to settle for 15 metres. The best targets I find is 1/2 an A4 sheet, cheap and easy to see. Practice at home is priceless, if dedicated, once every couple of days for 10 minutes drawing only is worth millions.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 08 Oct 2014, 1:20 pm

Using the Glock.

I had a go today at shooting rapid fire. At 10 yards I did five rounds in a string, not quite double taps but probably took about 4-5 seconds for the whole string. They were in a group about two inches, dead center of the target which I was happy with
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Fozzy » 08 Oct 2014, 1:22 pm

I practice at 10m out to 30m depending on what sort of training im going for. Obviously on the real long shots the first shot takes a bit longer haha. I also always double tap. And once Ive been through my drill at a specific distance I do 2 shots mag change 2 shots mag change and so on
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by ailar » 08 Oct 2014, 1:53 pm

30m is long for pistol shooting?

(not mocking, asking, never done it.)
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Fozzy » 08 Oct 2014, 1:56 pm

Yeah there is some sadists in my club that love the long shots hahaha. Max is usually 25m I just choose to push it out a bit
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by Baldrick314 » 08 Oct 2014, 1:59 pm

ailar wrote:30m is long for pistol shooting?

(not mocking, asking, never done it.)


Yeah 30 metres is pretty long for pistol. The furthest match I've ever shot is 50 yards which is just under 50 metres. Metalic silhouette guys shoot out to 100 metres if i remember correctly.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by scrolllock » 08 Oct 2014, 2:17 pm

It's funny to hear some peoples expectations of shooting and accuracy.

I'm heard some guy at the range for the first time say something like "I'm surprised, I thought I'd just hold the crosshair over the bullseye and pull the trigger and hit it!"

:lol:
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by cavok » 08 Oct 2014, 2:24 pm

ailar wrote:30m is long for pistol shooting?

(not mocking, asking, never done it.)


30 metres is fair, most good pistols with match grade barrels and others can at 50 metres hit dead centre, as will any good S&W revolver, 686, I know can hit at 80 metres. Some are hand loads, muzzle velocity around 1200f/s.
A good pistol shot can hit at 200 metres, see them at metallic silhouette all the time, and many use good revolvers and semi's.

Couple of major matches in IPSC set a few targets at 45-50metres, or pepper poppers.

In fact many years ago when I began shooting I would take 400 rounds to the range, the first 40-50 rounds where always at 50 metres, then I moved closer etc. We are talking standing, unsupported, not prone, that takes far to long. Prone 100 metres with slight elevation is not that hard for a good pistol, (not Glocks) sorry, but any good STI, Tanfoglio, 226 and quite a few more.
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Re: How Quick Is Your Draw?

Post by inspector » 11 Oct 2014, 7:45 am

50m :?

Imagining that with pistol and I wouldn't have a chance :lol:
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