Pistol prices... and some advice

[brisb]

Toying with the idea of a pistol license here at the moment and looking at some ads for pistols options.

It seems like they're are too basic brackets for cost.

Beretta, Glock, Rugers, Walther all about $700-$800.

1911, HK 9mm and 45's, CZ $1,600ish.

Not like rifles where there is more of a progression?

Is that reflective of quality and accuracy between the 2 groups or maybe I'm just not seeing enough options to get a proper feel.

At a glance sort of makes it look like you have the "good" options and "cheap" options and not much else?

[Guliver]

A good cheap option would be a new or second hand Ruger 22/45, $300 SH, $495 NEW the trigger is a bit heavy but there are plenty of fixes.

[vonfram88]

Toying with the idea of a pistol license here at the moment and looking at some ads for pistols options.

It seems like they're are too basic brackets for cost.

Beretta, Glock, Rugers, Walther all about $700-$800.

1911, HK 9mm and 45's, CZ $1,600ish.

Not like rifles where there is more of a progression?

Is that reflective of quality and accuracy between the 2 groups or maybe I'm just not seeing enough options to get a proper feel.

At a glance sort of makes it look like you have the "good" options and "cheap" options and not much else?

Yes price reflects quality and materials of construction. CZ and top end 1911 are higher quality than glocks. That does not necessarily mean that glocks are a poor quality firearm. I kind of like them, but love a CZ/clone as does anyone who handles a CZ.

[cavok]

Toying with the idea of a pistol license here at the moment and looking at some ads for pistols options.

It seems like they're are too basic brackets for cost.

Beretta, Glock, Rugers, Walther all about $700-$800.

1911, HK 9mm and 45's, CZ $1,600ish.

Not like rifles where there is more of a progression?

Is that reflective of quality and accuracy between the 2 groups or maybe I'm just not seeing enough options to get a proper feel.

At a glance sort of makes it look like you have the "good" options and "cheap" options and not much else?

In pistols, what do you intend to use, 9mm, .22, .38super, .357sig?

Beretta are not really regarded highly in 9mm, Rugers in .22 ok. Glock, NO, or I'm not a Glock fan, a very few people love them. CZ, and Tanfoglio in 9mm or any are the best of the bunch. In 9mm STI is regarded as the RR.

Best idea is to buy second hand, the only place is in usedguns, not much you can do to a semi, most people sell them to upgrade, most are 1/2 price and many had few rounds through them. Lots of Glocks and Berettas there, and others.

Once you are hooked in pistol shooting, different story. Most clubs have pistols, try every brand also from fellow shooters and make up your own mind.
$ 1400 for a CZ shadow 9mm, regarded as one of the best production pistol with mags, few better than that. used few dollars less, they hold there price well.

[yoshie]

There are quite a few pistols that will get you going in the sport, but once you're involved for a while you will notice a few that stand out for various matches/disciplines/classes and can be very competitive. Some of the ones originally designed for police and army are ok, but others are specifically designed for competitive shooting. These are the ones people who are selling Berettas and Gocks are upgrading to. Everyone will have their own recommendation, I'm an STI fan my self

[Guliver]

If your after a good cheap option in a .22, you can often find an older Hammerli or similar on used guns for less than $1000.

Try Wilson Target Arms http://www.wilsonstargetarms.com.au/ and have a chat to Bill he's always good for a chat and carries all sorts of SH pistols. You'll get some idea browsing his web site.

A visit to your local club at this stage should help answer a lot of questions for you.

[wrenchman]

wow they do rake you guys over the coals on guns most them guns can be had here for under 500 i am looking at a new walther right now thats on sale for 300 in 9mm.

[cavok]

Is that the new Walther PPQ? There are shipping cost and duty costs etc. Not as bad as it sounds.

[Guliver]

wow they do rake you guys over the coals on guns most them guns can be had here for under 500 i am looking at a new walther right now thats on sale for 300 in 9mm.

We're well aware of how we get ripped off, most people here call it the Australia Tax

I get regular emails from Ruger, Cabela's and some other US based stores. I think most Australians are well aware of the prices in the States,

Although a Ruger pistol I bought new recently worked out to be only $70 dearer than the US price, but I think that's a rare exception.

[cavok]

If someone feels ripped off, look at what a Mercedes Benz costs in America and Germany, same models, that's when you can scream I have been ripped off in multiple thousands of dollars. Same applies to aircraft and all manner of goods, firearms only account for a small amount. Also from my dealing in firearms most of my pistols STI and CZ are not that much more expensive here. Worth every penny as in most of my pistols I have owned dozens, then I usually sell them after 12 or so months, very few I sell for less that I paid, like all good merchandise, they increase in price and are in excellent condition and just run in when I sell them.

[bluerob]

wow they do rake you guys over the coals on guns most them guns can be had here for under 500 i am looking at a new walther right now thats on sale for 300 in 9mm.

Please don't remind us of these atrocities.

It's hard enough receiving the daily deal email from a certain large store and then when we get American Handgunner $14.00, I think now in Australian newspaper stores, is full of things that we only dream about.

I'm told that the high cost of any new firearm that is imported into Australia needs numerous permits. I was also told that if your firearm is manufactured say in Germany (like H&K's) paperwork is required (plus a fee, of course) for each country that the plane that might be carrying your gun in, flies over.

[brisb]

In pistols, what do you intend to use, 9mm, .22, .38super, .357sig?

ATM honestly no idea. Very new to pistols and haven't fired a thing.

While we're on the subject any advice on what the difference cartridges are suited for would be welcome as well.

[brisb]

Actually, one thing I did wonder is why shoot anything other than a .22LR at pistol ranges?

What does 9mm, .38 etc. give you other than a lighter wallet?

[Lorgar]

wow they do rake you guys over the coals on guns most them guns can be had here for under 500 i am looking at a new walther right now thats on sale for 300 in 9mm.

I looked at a bunch of rifles in a few shops when I was in the US...

US made stuff is about double the price here as it is there.

Euro stuff is about 60% more here.

From what I saw.

[flap]

If your after a good cheap option in a .22, you can often find an older Hammerli or similar on used guns for less than $1000.

I know of Hammerli... Competition looking stuff (not that looks mean much)

They're the go-to brand for .22 hey...

[wrenchman]

cavok its the ppx it is listing for 279 but after tax and transfer cost i will be looking at about just over 300 i am looking at it for investment to resale later

[cavok]

Actually, one thing I did wonder is why shoot anything other than a .22LR at pistol ranges?

What does 9mm, .38 etc. give you other than a lighter wallet?

OK, this is how it presents.

.22 is shot mainly/exclusively in ISSF matches, one hand shooting, Olympic and Commonwealth games, about as exciting as tiddlywinks. (sorry) no disrespect intended. If you want to shoot .22 join a pistol club that shoot using air pistol .177 and .22.

Next comes pistol clubs that shoot Service pistol ; Action pistol is Bianchi cup; ICORE is revolver only but same style clubs. Shooting is usually 9mm, or 39 special revolver, some shoot .38super. (Learn to reload and never worry about buying ammunition ever, much cheaper or find a club member who does).

Next comes IPSC, google it the most exciting shooting using all manner of firearms, 9mm is smallest allowed, again google for full information on what its all about.

Next is western action, bloody fantastic, no revolver (replica) after 1896, same as rifle and shotgun, well worth a look. Again google for complete and full information, shot Australia wide as are most types of shooting.

All sports cost money, pistol loose little in value once you own them, reloading makes the expense much less.

[Patrol66]

After you have shot a .22 pistol for awhile it can get a bit ordinary . Larger caliber's in my opinion offer more of a challenge to shoot well, and heaps more fun comps to enter. Another reason to shoot other than .22 is that you can. Hehe.

[cavok]

Shooting pistol is not about the pistol calibre, it's about the dare I say fun competition with friends, challenge of shooting a high calibre pistol fast and accurately. Mostly if you can't at 10 metres, (say 10m) fire of very accurately 4 shots in 1 second, try another sport. Many pistol competitions are shooting while you move, fast and with accuracy.

Those that can do, those that can't shoot .22

Brisbane has some excellent IPSC pistol clubs, fantastic people and great facilities. States run large and small matches, states run a state open yearly then each year in a different state we run the Australian open, bloody great fun, lots of people. Brisbane also has a great Western Action association, a must look see and try. Also ICORE and Bianchi Cup. Forget the rest.

[Guliver]

Shooting pistol is not about the pistol calibre, it's about the dare I say fun competition with friends, challenge of shooting a high calibre pistol fast and accurately. Mostly if you can't at 10 metres, (say 10m) fire of very accurately 4 shots in 1 second, try another sport.

Pistol shooting for me is about friends at the club, I'm too old and crook to shoot consistently, my hands shake if I take more than 10 seconds to acquire the target, I'm not competitive, I'm only shooting against my previous scores but there's no way I'm giving up.

Those that can do, those that can't shoot .22. Lol.

I have no idea why you'd put down .22 as a calibre it's just as valid as any other, I wonder why it's so popular if what you say is true, I guess the Olympic organizers have it all wrong.

Some edits to cavok's original post

[cavok]

Shooting pistol is not about the pistol calibre, it's about the dare I say fun competition with friends, challenge of shooting a high calibre pistol fast and accurately. Mostly if you can't at 10 metres, (say 10m) fire of very accurately 4 shots in 1 second, try another sport.

Pistol shooting for me is about friends at the club, I'm too old and crook to shoot consistently, my hands shake if I take more than 10 seconds to acquire the target, I'm not competitive, I'm only shooting against my previous scores but there's no way I'm giving up.

Those that can do, those that can't shoot .22. Lol.

I have no idea why you'd put down .22 as a calibre it's just as valid as any other, I wonder why it's so popular if what you say is true, I guess the Olympic organizers have it all wrong.

Some edits to cavok's original post

Sorry Guliver, I in most my response insert a LOL. I fully understand your situation, I do NOT put down shooting .22 calibre. What you shoot is legitimate, fun and extremely challenging and a good founding in shooting, all I say is in my post that it's not for me. I have issue not with you but associations that want our sport or shooting outlawed, removed, and over many years I have spoken with some hierarchy from dare I say, end, I wish not to say more.

All I say is that there are several divisions in shooting, ISSF and then some, all want to deny oxygen to others, to much division and stuff them.

Shoot well and have fun, that's what it's all about, forget what I write, just do it.

[Guliver]

Thanks for the clarification cavok. I just noticed the "Per ardua ad astra" in your sig, another EX RAAF fellow here.

I should add .22 is a really cheap caliber for new comers to the sport to get a taste of what its all about without selling the farm and going the whole reloading route which is really necessary if your going to shoot centre fire.

[brisb]

OK, this is how it presents...

Thanks for all that.

IPSC is sounding like what I'm looking for

Didn't realise .22 was not allowed, I need to brush up on all the rules for these things and learn more still.

[bluerob]

Pistol clubs; avoid the politics, buy a heap of reloading gear in whatever calibre you end up liking (if you shoot a lot), get dressed up (Western Action) if that's your thing, try IPSC if you like fast shooting and moving around (something I would love to do, but walking sticks get in the way) or any other of the shooting matches your club offers.

My best mate loves his .357 and knocking plates over (or scaring them with noise and they fall over) and will then happily shoot his .22 in a Rapid Fire match.

Bottom line - have fun and make heaps of friends who have a wealth of knowledge.

[Chronos]

Shooting pistol is not about the pistol calibre, it's about the dare I say fun competition with friends, challenge of shooting a high calibre pistol fast and accurately. Mostly if you can't at 10 metres, (say 10m) fire of very accurately 4 shots in 1 second, try another sport.

Pistol shooting for me is about friends at the club, I'm too old and crook to shoot consistently, my hands shake if I take more than 10 seconds to acquire the target, I'm not competitive, I'm only shooting against my previous scores but there's no way I'm giving up.

Those that can do, those that can't shoot .22. Lol.

I have no idea why you'd put down .22 as a calibre it's just as valid as any other, I wonder why it's so popular if what you say is true, I guess the Olympic organizers have it all wrong.

Some edits to cavok's original post

It's the typical snobbery you see in some people. Pistol shooting is famous for it.

Usually people get sucked into buying what they think is the coolest pistol to shoot depending on what their club/mates shoot.

I'm yet to see an ipsc or cowboy shooter who can pick up an air pistol and shoot a decent group the first time.

First you must shoot accurately, then you can worry about shoiting fast.

I've seen self acclaimed pistol "experts" stand and lecture shooters about grip, stance and all the other tactical bs then they can't keep 6 rounds in the A scoring zone at
7m on an ipsc target.

Completely arse about IMHO

Chronos

[huccl]

get dressed up (Western Action) if that's your thing

Gotta say that 3 gun cowboy shoot looks like a barrel of fun.

Single action revolver, shotty and lever action rifle to finish I think?

I'm not much for running around but scooting around unloading that trio would be ripper.

And c'mon... You gotta wear the hat and leggings while doing it

[Guliver]

Gotta say that 3 gun cowboy shoot looks like a barrel of fun.

I could never stand fancy dress parties, having to dress up, I'll pass thanks.

[cavok]

It's the typical snobbery you see in some people. Pistol shooting is famous for it.

Usually people get sucked into buying what they think is the coolest pistol to shoot depending on what their club/mates shoot.

I'm yet to see an ipsc or cowboy shooter who can pick up an air pistol and shoot a decent group the first time.

First you must shoot accurately, then you can worry about shoiting fast.

I've seen self acclaimed pistol "experts" stand and lecture shooters about grip, stance and all the other tactical bs then they can't keep 6 rounds in the A scoring zone at
7m on an ipsc target.

Completely arse about IMHO

Chronos, sorry you get me all wrong, I do say shooting at clubs with friends is what it's all about. >22 is great for Olympic and Commonwealth games, some great shooters there 20 + years ago I was even invited etc. IT IS NOT FOR ME. .22 and .17 pistol is great, for those who want that, it's not for me, boring, I hold no bias, it's not for me, I wrote it a hundred times on many forums. The same as I can Glocks and Beretta and a who range of guns, not for me, I have owned every gun I rubbish, BUT, all of that is tongue in check and I think Guliver knows that.

I HAVE never seen a self proclaimed pistol shooter lecture any on GRIP< Stand, or other tactical BS, who could not put 6 rounds into an A zone IPSC target, 25 metres maybe, but 7 or 10 NEVER. Grip is ok, stance is no; no as we move and shoot mainly, speed is the essence, double taps required, I have no interest in A zones, speed is king. Actually there is more to it but you get my drift, I'm getting a bit worked up over some comments. See you on the range on day, and I care little of what pistols people use, even Glocks, and .22, and its all fun, till you shoot for sheep stations.

[scrolllock]

I HAVE never seen a self proclaimed pistol shooter lecture any on GRIP< Stand, or other tactical BS, who could not put 6 rounds into an A zone IPSC target, 25 metres maybe, but 7 or 10 NEVER.

Been to Little River? "Experts" galore there

[huccl]

I could never stand fancy dress parties, having to dress up, I'll pass thanks.

There is fancy dress, and then there is fancy dress with guns!

Different ball game