Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 05 Feb 2024, 11:29 pm

gunderson wrote:But Flavor-aid is the best tasting aids...

The partisan ideology is undeniably, divisive, That is its entire purpose.

The Mongs on both sides fuel it and as Lazarus said, the 1% steer it...

until people get fed up with being lied to and stop being "true believers" in their favorite political groups/factions, the situation will never change.

Personally I find Labor supporters the most insufferable, they are some of the most belligerent people I have ever encountered in political conversation, they have a million excuses for their favorite factions failures and when presented with the exact same kind of excuses from the other side they are outraged that anyone would try and make excuses etc etc.

The truth is all large parties and small parties alike do dodgy deals, have cronies, have corporate overlords, are pimped out to lobbyists and the likes. all of them ignore their constituents, vote constantly in favor of foreign interests more than aussie ones etc etc, without a proper overhaul we are doomed to circle the drain


But alexjones, don't you see?
That very statement shows that you are buying into their division.
Your are supporting the 1% by perpetuating their "us and them" bullsh!t.

There is no right and left.
That's just the illusion the 1% use to control us.
Have you not heard of " Divide and Conquer"?

There actually is an us and them, but it's the 1% and the peasants mate, not the illusory left and right.

You didn't address the question, you feel free to hate those with whom you disagree, do you grant them the right to find you "insufferable" for your choice of beliefs?

I'm no saintly altruist, there are plenty of people I despise, but not for something as paltry as politics.
Let's save our hatred and invective for the Musks, Bezos, Buffets and Trumps of the world
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 06 Feb 2024, 12:44 am

Lazarus wrote:You didn't address the question, you feel free to hate those with whom you disagree, do you grant them the right to find you "insufferable" for your choice of beliefs?




They're sycophantic losers. that's my main issue.

Liberals, greens, nationals, one nation etc, are all far less hypocritical, most are unapologetic about their politics, the Liberals especially being unapologetically corporate. The Greens are unapologetically far left zealots, the Nationals are unapologetically for corporate rural Australia and mining etc.

Labor on the other hand, and even more so true for their supporters, play this altruistic savior complex bulls**t card, refuse to all ends to admit their hypocrisy and corruption, and always look to create a strawman in order to make their chosen cronies seem more palatable, it only works on simpletons, everyone else can see through it. The classical catch cry of a Labor supporter if you point out a problem with a Labor government is to immediately say "But the Liberal Party (______________)" as if comparing two s**t sandwiches makes me want to eat theirs more... its bloody idiotic.

Whilst I will concede that I get the same thing occasionally from Liberal voters, Nationals voters and so on. I never get it in the sheer volume I see with Labor supporters/voters. Likewise Labor supporters in my experience are more often the Pseudo intellectual liars who will stop at nothing to back their values with bulls**t. Yes I will say the same about the Greens, but they at least don't pretend they aren't doing it.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 08 Feb 2024, 11:06 am

gunderson wrote:
Lazarus wrote:You didn't address the question, you feel free to hate those with whom you disagree, do you grant them the right to find you "insufferable" for your choice of beliefs?




They're sycophantic losers. that's my main issue.

Liberals, greens, nationals, one nation etc, are all far less hypocritical, most are unapologetic about their politics, the Liberals especially being unapologetically corporate. The Greens are unapologetically far left zealots, the Nationals are unapologetically for corporate rural Australia and mining etc.

Labor on the other hand, and even more so true for their supporters, play this altruistic savior complex bulls**t card, refuse to all ends to admit their hypocrisy and corruption, and always look to create a strawman in order to make their chosen cronies seem more palatable, it only works on simpletons, everyone else can see through it. The classical catch cry of a Labor supporter if you point out a problem with a Labor government is to immediately say "But the Liberal Party (______________)" as if comparing two s**t sandwiches makes me want to eat theirs more... its bloody idiotic.

Whilst I will concede that I get the same thing occasionally from Liberal voters, Nationals voters and so on. I never get it in the sheer volume I see with Labor supporters/voters. Likewise Labor supporters in my experience are more often the Pseudo intellectual liars who will stop at nothing to back their values with bulls**t. Yes I will say the same about the Greens, but they at least don't pretend they aren't doing it.



Gunderson, mate, still nothing but more hating on those to the left of your politics.

I'll take that as a "no", then?
They shouldn't feel free to hate you?

Just once, I'd like to debate someone from the outer reaches of the far right, who actually uses reason and evidence rather than vitriol and hackneyed cliches.

Why the hatred, it's just politics, mate?

So, some people think things should be done differently to the way you and the Neo crowd think it should be.
So what?

Like I said, Divide and Conquer.
Politicians of all aromas, most especially those on the far right, incite division and hatred because it's how they control you.

I'm apolitical and I sit in the middle, so to the left I'm a conservative, to you I'm probably a gay communist vegan cyclist.
You can't reach rational compromise while you're throwing rocks at each other.

I know I'm talking fantasy though.
Juvenal was right
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by on_one_wheel » 08 Feb 2024, 4:33 pm

"gay communist vegan cyclist" at least you know how the majority of the left roll.

Oh... you forgot "soy late sipping" :thumbsup:
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 08 Feb 2024, 8:27 pm

Lazarus wrote:

Gunderson, mate, still nothing but more hating on those to the left of your politics.

I'll take that as a "no", then?
They shouldn't feel free to hate you?

Just once, I'd like to debate someone from the outer reaches of the far right, who actually uses reason and evidence rather than vitriol and hackneyed cliches.

Why the hatred, it's just politics, mate?

So, some people think things should be done differently to the way you and the Neo crowd think it should be.
So what?

Like I said, Divide and Conquer.
Politicians of all aromas, most especially those on the far right, incite division and hatred because it's how they control you.

I'm apolitical and I sit in the middle, so to the left I'm a conservative, to you I'm probably a gay communist vegan cyclist.
You can't reach rational compromise while you're throwing rocks at each other.

I know I'm talking fantasy though.
Juvenal was right



You'd have to be pretty far left to be left of my politics mate, clinton, biden, obama and co are all right wing compared to me.

Being honest here, your reply, at least after a long day of work and driving... is borderline incoherent.

I call out both sides, I merely pointed out which side presents as far more hypocritical and biased, and for no good reason I might add, and somehow you think that's being far right?

Lets say you're at a food court, there are two massive stalls there that both sell placental leftovers mixed with human fecal matter and the only difference is the kind of garnish they put on top, then there are all these smaller stalls around who cant get enough business because the two major stalls is where all the low IQ simpletons you are surrounded by go to out of nothing more than mob mentality and the need to be a herd animal. The smaller stalls all sell a variety of things from tasty to bland, but hey only a few of them put actual s**t in their products.

I'm the free thinker that will go to the ones not serving up s**t... everyone else it seems is hell bent on doing the opposite. I will continue to be happy with being in a minority, but it does not mean I will fall folly of the gaslighting of the majority groups. I don't fear not fitting in.

Can you please clarify this Far Right for us? I think its being thrown around far too much with no context or actual information attached.

I think you're left leaning because you have eluded to being so, albeit unintentionally perhaps? I don't care if you are left wing... I pity you for being partisan however.

Hatred, I despise liars and hypocrites.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 09 Feb 2024, 7:30 am

gunderson wrote:
Lazarus wrote:

Gunderson, mate, still nothing but more hating on those to the left of your politics.

I'll take that as a "no", then?
They shouldn't feel free to hate you?

Just once, I'd like to debate someone from the outer reaches of the far right, who actually uses reason and evidence rather than vitriol and hackneyed cliches.

Why the hatred, it's just politics, mate?

So, some people think things should be done differently to the way you and the Neo crowd think it should be.
So what?

Like I said, Divide and Conquer.
Politicians of all aromas, most especially those on the far right, incite division and hatred because it's how they control you.

I'm apolitical and I sit in the middle, so to the left I'm a conservative, to you I'm probably a gay communist vegan cyclist.
You can't reach rational compromise while you're throwing rocks at each other.

I know I'm talking fantasy though.
Juvenal was right



You'd have to be pretty far left to be left of my politics mate, clinton, biden, obama and co are all right wing compared to me.

Being honest here, your reply, at least after a long day of work and driving... is borderline incoherent.

I call out both sides, I merely pointed out which side presents as far more hypocritical and biased, and for no good reason I might add, and somehow you think that's being far right?

Lets say you're at a food court, there are two massive stalls there that both sell placental leftovers mixed with human fecal matter and the only difference is the kind of garnish they put on top, then there are all these smaller stalls around who cant get enough business because the two major stalls is where all the low IQ simpletons you are surrounded by go to out of nothing more than mob mentality and the need to be a herd animal. The smaller stalls all sell a variety of things from tasty to bland, but hey only a few of them put actual s**t in their products.

I'm the free thinker that will go to the ones not serving up s**t... everyone else it seems is hell bent on doing the opposite. I will continue to be happy with being in a minority, but it does not mean I will fall folly of the gaslighting of the majority groups. I don't fear not fitting in.

Can you please clarify this Far Right for us? I think its being thrown around far too much with no context or actual information attached.

I think you're left leaning because you have eluded to being so, albeit unintentionally perhaps? I don't care if you are left wing... I pity you for being partisan however.

Hatred, I despise liars and hypocrites.



This response demonstrates the reason I believe you are of the far right, if It sounds like a duck(uses far right tropes, "despises" the left etc) and it walks like a duck(refuses to explain why those who disagree are just sh!t peddlers and the left is so evil, obviously partotting the alternative "facts") then I'll see it as a duck. Then after all the hating on the left, you now actually claim to be left?
Disingenuous much?

I still believe you're out there to the right of Anus Tangerinus, but hey, I was convinced fionn was a menopausal woman.

Still not sure on that one
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 09 Feb 2024, 1:00 pm

You're the one labelling Labor the left....

Hypocrisy and Cronyism, Corporatism aren't "far right tropes" and they aren't in any way "refusing to explain either"

I think its pretty clear you are triggered mate. I think its pretty clear you are most definitely not a centrist. I don't believe for even a moment you actually understand the nature of politics in its true sense. I don't believe that you have a balanced view at all, and I will simply cite your constant use of "Far Right" and other emotive language to support that.

Failure, blatant failure, the inability to accept that failure. Corruption via Cronyism and other Corporatist collusion is rife in both Liberal and Labor, and if you disagree then you are the one getting around with a blindfold on. I challenge you to even once show where I have supported anything even remotely "Far Right" that's if you can even for a moment stop your rhetorical nonsense long enough to elaborate properly on what and who is "Far Right"...

as for where I land politically I just redid the Political Compass test twice so as to not have a false result and landed in the same place both times which is as follows:


Screenshot_11.png
Political Compass Me
Screenshot_11.png (41.69 KiB) Viewed 934 times


Compare that to where the likes of Obama etc... from the so called "left" in the scheme of USA/World politics...

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one
83447393.jpg (69.28 KiB) Viewed 934 times


us2016.png
two
us2016.png (30.4 KiB) Viewed 934 times


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three
1_34JGlc9vMwf92WBBMMowGw.png (423.49 KiB) Viewed 934 times


So please do again, tell me how I am "Far Right" when I am clearly Economically Left and borderline/central on Authority vs Libertarian....

You are just out here throwing insult expecting it to make those you perceive as opponents give up..... hilariously I am a shooter and hunter who has more in common with Jill Stein (the candidate that led the USA Greens Party) Than Obama and Clinton etc....

I think you need to go back to the drawing board...
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 09 Feb 2024, 5:40 pm

Oh gunderson, maaaate :lol:

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I dont care enough to even read that last diatribe.

Debating stuff like that on here is just something I do while I'm on the dunny, once that process is over I don't even think about it.

Since this is obviously of great import to you, do carry on, but I'm bored now that it's getting repetitive.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 09 Feb 2024, 5:47 pm

ok cool good to know you concede, trivializing something you were basically emphatically debating literally a few comments ago... pretending its not important to you... etc. whatevs mate.


I know you didn't have anything substantial to say in rebuttal so I am not surprised in the slightest.

you made my point for me nicely.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 10 Feb 2024, 7:13 am

gunderson wrote:ok cool good to know you concede, trivializing something you were basically emphatically debating literally a few comments ago... pretending its not important to you... etc. whatevs mate.


I know you didn't have anything substantial to say in rebuttal so I am not surprised in the slightest.

you made my point for me nicely.


Ah, the internet random knows me and my political beliefs better than I do. :lol:

Gunderson, how old are you?
"Whatevs"? Really? That's something my grandkids would come out with.

Mate, you'll have to help me here, I'm old so I'm getting forgetful.
What exactly was your point?
The discussion was about EVs, and you managed to derail it into some rant about the politics of another internet random, ie me.

Or did I derail it, talking about your politics.
See, gunderson, you've managed to bore me into senility.

Nurse? I've soiled myself again.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 10 Feb 2024, 8:23 am

I tell you what, gunderson, my closest mates and I take merciless piss out of each other and we all love it because we can all handle it.

In the spirit of keeping this place friendly, how about you and I leave out the politics, because it's obviously important to you and bores me unconscious, and just take friendly piss out of each other without getting menstrual.
What do you reckon?

I reckon womle would be a good piss taker, are you still out there womble, haven't been hit by a car heading back to your burrow? Oh wait, that's wombat


See, that sort of nonsense, are you up to it?
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by wanneroo » 10 Feb 2024, 11:39 am

I just saw some blurb that Ford is losing so much money on EVs, they are majorly pulling back on their plans.

Battery EVs are just way too inefficient to be viable.

Might survive as a niche city weirdo thing or as Toyota says, hybrids, but otherwise it's just as retarded as it was an idea 130 years ago.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 10 Feb 2024, 12:39 pm

wanneroo wrote:I just saw some blurb that Ford is losing so much money on EVs, they are majorly pulling back on their plans.

Battery EVs are just way too inefficient to be viable.

Might survive as a niche city weirdo thing or as Toyota says, hybrids, but otherwise it's just as retarded as it was an idea 130 years ago.



correct
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 10 Feb 2024, 2:30 pm

Lazarus wrote:
gunderson wrote:ok cool good to know you concede, trivializing something you were basically emphatically debating literally a few comments ago... pretending its not important to you... etc. whatevs mate.


I know you didn't have anything substantial to say in rebuttal so I am not surprised in the slightest.

you made my point for me nicely.


Ah, the internet random knows me and my political beliefs better than I do. :lol:

Gunderson, how old are you?
"Whatevs"? Really? That's something my grandkids would come out with.

Mate, you'll have to help me here, I'm old so I'm getting forgetful.
What exactly was your point?
The discussion was about EVs, and you managed to derail it into some rant about the politics of another internet random, ie me.

Or did I derail it, talking about your politics.
See, gunderson, you've managed to bore me into senility.

Nurse? I've soiled myself again.


you are the one that made the strawman, as you are trying to do again..

you're pretty sad tbh.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 12 Feb 2024, 6:40 am

gunderson wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
gunderson wrote:ok cool good to know you concede, trivializing something you were basically emphatically debating literally a few comments ago... pretending its not important to you... etc. whatevs mate.


I know you didn't have anything substantial to say in rebuttal so I am not surprised in the slightest.

you made my point for me nicely.


Ah, the internet random knows me and my political beliefs better than I do. :lol:

Gunderson, how old are you?
"Whatevs"? Really? That's something my grandkids would come out with.

Mate, you'll have to help me here, I'm old so I'm getting forgetful.
What exactly was your point?
The discussion was about EVs, and you managed to derail it into some rant about the politics of another internet random, ie me.

Or did I derail it, talking about your politics.
See, gunderson, you've managed to bore me into senility.

Nurse? I've soiled myself again.


you are the one that made the strawman, as you are trying to do again..

you're pretty sad tbh.


So that's a "no" then?

You can't handle a friendly piss take?

Well, I can handle some. So you feel free to have a go "whenevs" bruh

You're actually right this time, gunderson, I am sad now, you younger generations take yourselves waaay too seriously.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by on_one_wheel » 15 Feb 2024, 10:27 am

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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by wanneroo » 15 Feb 2024, 12:57 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:https://www.news.com.au/travel/australian-holidays/big-issue-caravan-industry-sounds-ev-warning-as-utes-targeted-in-fuel-efficiency-overhaul/news-story/79c418d8ca0123d6024ca569e10a5919


A great article on why left wing bureaucracies always create more inefficiencies rather than the other way around.

I've seen all the math and none of the battery EV stuff makes any sense at all. It's not even energy efficient nor is it "climate friendly" or "green".

I've even run into this battery powered tools like electric chainsaws. Fine for "around town" so to speak. I can cut up some branches or small bits but once I put it under load and start cutting up a tree, the batteries conk out or it overheats quickly.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by on_one_wheel » 15 Feb 2024, 4:58 pm

I'm looking forward to the new pollution laws being rushed through, the second hand market on real 4x4's will go spastic.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Feb 2024, 10:28 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:I'm looking forward to the new pollution laws being rushed through, the second hand market on real 4x4's will go spastic.


Wait till all those who rushed in and bought an ev find they'd bought a white elephant.

With full scale production of carbon neutral synthetic hydrocarbons "around the corner" Elon Muskrat et al will find themselves without a market.

I see the new standards as a good thing. We've been the dumping ground for inefficient models nobody else wants and missing out on the more efficient models available overseas.

Yet again we have the media claiming, falsely, that people will be losing something.

Nobody is suggesting, anywhere official, that older less efficient vehicles will be banned, just that new imports will have to meet the new standards.

You're right about 4x4s oow, the Toorak Tractors will be traded in a heartbeat.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 16 Feb 2024, 3:09 am

Australia isn't so much a dumping ground, we are just a tiny market that is literally all..... Australia's entire car industry would fit into Bangkok or Manila or Delhi, we get whatever the world is already consuming as far as automotive choices are concerned, the only reason new cars are sold here is if they are made elsewhere and are already being made and sold there, which means they aren't dumping anything in truth they are producing the same cars and using the same cars, and worse ones, in Asia as we are getting here.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by No1_49er » 16 Feb 2024, 4:28 am

Here's a good one from one of New Zealand's (woke) newspapers this morning https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/ ... TJHRRPOQA/
The tenet of the justification for that particular vehicle is that it's the only one "fit for purpose".
I guess that that is what every tradie will also claim, with equal justification (and rightly so).

https://niwa.co.nz/about (National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research)
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by on_one_wheel » 16 Feb 2024, 6:20 am

No1_49er wrote:Here's a good one from one of New Zealand's (woke) newspapers this morning https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/ ... TJHRRPOQA/
The tenet of the justification for that particular vehicle is that it's the only one "fit for purpose".
I guess that that is what every tradie will also claim, with equal justification (and rightly so).

https://niwa.co.nz/about (National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research)


I bet that's upset a few climate crusaders.
I couldn't think of a better tow vehicle for large boats, at least they didn't buy Ford F150 trucks.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 16 Feb 2024, 7:33 am

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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by gunderson » 18 Feb 2024, 3:50 pm

The idea of Synthetic fuels isn't a Novel one, world powers have toyed with this idea a fair bit, especially during conflicts, issue is it arrives at a more than double cost of the usual crude derived fuels, I see liquid fuel as a much more stable choice however when compared to EV and Hydrogen and Ammonia energy sources.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 18 Feb 2024, 4:13 pm

gunderson wrote:The idea of Synthetic fuels isn't a Novel one, world powers have toyed with this idea a fair bit, especially during conflicts, issue is it arrives at a more than double cost of the usual crude derived fuels, I see liquid fuel as a much more stable choice however when compared to EV and Hydrogen and Ammonia energy sources.


Agree with you here gunderson, we import ~90% of our liquid fuels, through now hotly contested waterways.
EVs are an expensive boondoggle, that are diverting talent and funding from alternative fuels.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by bigpete » 18 Feb 2024, 7:20 pm

Geezus f***ing christ I hate politics.

Hopefully we still keep our utes as I'm inheriting dads 2016 extra cab triton 4x4.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 19 Feb 2024, 6:20 am

bigpete wrote:Geezus f***ing christ I hate politics.

Hopefully we still keep our utes as I'm inheriting dads 2016 extra cab triton 4x4.


Yet again, we are NOT losing our existing vehicles FFS.
The new standards apply ONLY to new vehicles imported after a certain date.
Why do people insist on turning a good idea into a plot to rob us?
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Larry » 19 Feb 2024, 7:14 am

Laz havent the recent events in the US made this clear to you? Some people / political parties need a crisis or tragic accident so they can raise money off it, or they use the opportunity to campaign on fixing the issue or implement laws to control the population.
This issue is a US one I dont think we will see the same level of crazy here.
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Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 19 Feb 2024, 8:05 am

Larry wrote:Laz havent the recent events in the US made this clear to you? Some people / political parties need a crisis or tragic accident so they can raise money off it, or they use the opportunity to campaign on fixing the issue or implement laws to control the population.
This issue is a US one I dont think we will see the same level of crazy here.


Yeah, I understand the divide and conguer equation Larry, but in this instance it's not about "controlling the population", it's about getting the most fuel efficient and least polluting vehicles here.
Vehicles that we don't get because the manufacturers send them to countries who mandate that they produce the best products with available tech.

So, what we get are good cars and trucks etc, but they use a fecktonne more fuel and produce more pollution.

What do you have against cars, trucks and yes, utes, that cost less to run?

You are totally right about the control Larry, but they can ONLY control you if you let scare campaigns panic you into the reactions in this thread, even the title is a scare campaign of its own.

In an attempt to make it clearer, I'll do a Tangerinus;

NOBODY IS COMING FOR ANYTHING, LET ALONE YOUR UTE!

In all the above, I don't recall anyone actually suggesting how our utes would be taken, by force, buyback, deregistration?
None of which could happen without mass public protest and disobedience.
ANY politician suggesting such would be howled down and gone next election.

I think our efforts would be far better served making noise about an actual conspiracy that has been active against everyone for many years.

Supermarket duopoly
We have far more to lose here than with fuel efficient cars
Courage is knowing it might
hurt, and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same
.
And that's why life is hard
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Lazarus
Officer Cadet
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Posts: 1789
New South Wales

Re: Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

Post by Lazarus » 19 Feb 2024, 8:07 am

Having just reread your post Larry I think I took it in the wrong context.
If so, my apologies
I'm a little slow in the AM
Courage is knowing it might
hurt, and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same
.
And that's why life is hard
User avatar
Lazarus
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1789
New South Wales

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