Landcruiser engines

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Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2020, 1:25 pm

The Cruiser did a head gasket on Monday.
The mechanic in town gave us a price assuming the head is cracked because they're prone to it apparently.
I noticed a clean spot on the air cleaner housing that would indicate steam blasting out the right side of the number-one cylinder head gasket, and a bunch of fresh burnt oil on the block below that point. So it's a head gasket at least, with a decent chance of a blown head. Until I pull the head I won't know if there's any damage to pistons, rings or bores.

So, first option is to find a good secondhand 1HZ 4200 engine to swap into the ute while I rebuild the original. If anybody knows of one around let me know please :-)

Second option is to rebuild it now, which will take a little while as I'm currently rebuilding the car engine that did a head gasket six-weeks ago :-)

Third option is an engine conversion. The cost of transporting the ute to a shop to be done will be prohibitive I think, so I need somebody in Gippsland or Melbourne. Or somebody that does engine conversion kits that can send me a kit engine I can drop in myself. I swapped a 253 into my diesel Hilux thirty years ago with no kits or outside assistance so I think I'll cope okay.

What engine conversions are there around these days? Not a fan of diesel so a petrol conversion adds some incentive - more power, better fuel economy, and cheaper repairs and maintenance for a start. The vehicle is '94 build so any engine newer than that should be fine for EPA compliance. Buick 3800, LS1, Chev 350, or an inline-six maybe?
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 09 Dec 2020, 3:31 pm

best engine for a toyota is the LS or Cummins in the tow truck.


haha jokes aside smash a Cummins in it if youre serious about keeping it long term, LS1 if you wanna fight me and all the others for parts later on, a small block chev isnt a bad idea but they lack low end torque and are heavy on juice, the 3800 ecotec in the clappadoors are not the same as the venerated 3800 buick, im assuming you are referring to the commonwhore motor? when it comes to inline 6 the barra is the obvious choice, and what I would push you towards especially being in Vic. however BMW engines aren't as fragile as people keep saying, I own two beemers and have had exactly 0 engine trouble or transmission trouble, most issues are simple wear and tear, like any vehicle. The M57 bmw 3.0 turbo diesel is good for 650nm and 400hp.....
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 Dec 2020, 5:43 pm

I'd be sticking with the original engine.

You might be able to find a rebuilt short engine if it's stuffed. More likely than not, a C/O head and new head gasket will fix it (assuming the head has issues)
Perfect chance to do the timing belt too.

Engine swapps are very expensive when you look at all the associated conversation parts needed.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by No1Mk3 » 09 Dec 2020, 5:50 pm

I have a 350 Chev with a 4 speed, one finger operation transfer case. Started to replace the rotten cab, but new (1972) cab tub is bloody different from the 1969 that I threw away! Toyota? Bugger!
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 Dec 2020, 5:53 pm

Ziege wrote:, a small block chev isnt a bad idea but they lack low end torque and are heavy on juice, ..
.

I'll have to correct you there...
Small block Chevs go as big as 430 cubes easily..
Even a 350 has a mountain of low end torque, a very mild 350 will make more torque than the 1hz.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 09 Dec 2020, 5:58 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:
Ziege wrote:, a small block chev isnt a bad idea but they lack low end torque and are heavy on juice, ..
.

I'll have to correct you there...
Small block Chevs go as big as 430 cubes easily..
Even a 350 has a mountain of low end torque, a very mild 350 will make more torque than the 1hz.



mountain of low end torque if you throw in a mountain of fuel...... and yes everything I listed has both more HP and Torque than the original donk, minus perhaps the 3800 depending on what one he meant, the actual buick one is a killer but the crank, firing sequence and heads are completely different to the ecotec. the buick donk is a machine of pure acceleration as far as v6 engines go, the ecotec is a mang mang.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 09 Dec 2020, 7:21 pm

1hd-ft no computers its a bolt in replacment good power can be made with these engines. And providing its been looked after a extremely reliable engine.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 09 Dec 2020, 7:47 pm

I will second that they are an easy enough rebuild, one of my stints in college I worked at my family friends engine rebuild workshop in Nedlands, 1HZ's were a regular rebuild, moved through the shop fast, easy to assemble, every recon joint knows how to work their heads and blocks, valvetrain is relatively simple.

find yourself a couple of them, put one in the shed.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by No1Mk3 » 09 Dec 2020, 8:14 pm

When the Chevy went into the FJ45 petrol was fairly cheap, with the Rochester it drank fuel faster than a shearer drops a stubby after knock off. I always thought the Arabs would send me Valentines, but it did pull. But Ziege is right on, Power out = Fuel in.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 09 Dec 2020, 8:20 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:When the Chevy went into the FJ45 petrol was fairly cheap, with the Rochester it drank fuel faster than a shearer drops a stubby after knock off. I always thought the Arabs would send me Valentines, but it did pull. But Ziege is right on, Power out = Fuel in.



dead on, they are a heavy old engine with an inefficient valve train, reliable as all heck, provided you have big tanks and jerry cans.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Dec 2020, 8:54 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:I'd be sticking with the original engine.

You might be able to find a rebuilt short engine if it's stuffed. More likely than not, a C/O head and new head gasket will fix it (assuming the head has issues)
Perfect chance to do the timing belt too.

Engine swapps are very expensive when you look at all the associated conversation parts needed.


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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 09 Dec 2020, 8:58 pm

It really does depend on what vehicle you have, as to whether or not an engine swap is cheaper or more expensive than a rebuild, my patrol for example putting my LS in was way more cost effective both short and long term than repairing the car with its original power plant.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by boingk » 09 Dec 2020, 9:33 pm

Barra or LS it mate. No comparison.

Otherwise a good old Holden Ecotech out of a VS to VX Commodore would be perfect, and very cheap.

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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 09 Dec 2020, 9:48 pm

boingk wrote:Barra or LS it mate. No comparison.

Otherwise a good old Holden Ecotech out of a VS to VX Commodore would be perfect, and very cheap.

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He will go barra cheaper than LS, but yeah both are good.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by on_one_wheel » 10 Dec 2020, 12:11 pm

I've been down the LS conversation path.

Mounts, adapters, exhaust, fuel lines both delivery and return, fittings, fuel pump, complex wiring & relays, intake air plumbing, putting it over the pits for a v8 rego, suspension to suit the reduced weight and buying a decent engine ... far from cheap and your left with a beautiful conversion that still chomps north of 20L/100k highway driving and 30L/100k or more off road. Best of all it can't cope with water crossings. :thumbsup:
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 10 Dec 2020, 1:12 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:I've been down the LS conversation path.

Mounts, adapters, exhaust, fuel lines both delivery and return, fittings, fuel pump, complex wiring & relays, intake air plumbing, putting it over the pits for a v8 rego, suspension to suit the reduced weight and buying a decent engine ... far from cheap and your left with a beautiful conversion that still chomps north of 20L/100k highway driving and 30L/100k or more off road. Best of all it can't cope with water crossings. :thumbsup:



true, but way I see it, My ZD was using 20+L/100 as well as 4L/1000 in oil, and thats diesel, a full recon was gonna cost about 11k, and even if I got it back fully reconditioned and ready to go, I still would have had a 15L/100 ****** engine that runs hot and has far too many finnicky parts s**t emissions controls and only gives me 80 RWHP, s**t thats only 15 more HP than the crappy old Massey Ferguson I use to clean out the contour banks here... as well as a crappy real world torque figure of about 300nm.

going to the LS, and getting a good tune means spending 6k on parts, 800 on a tune, and a few hundred on licensing, (can be worse in other states I know), but also means more or less same fuel consumption or better... more than twice the power and 30% more torque so that at least the fuel going in means what I get out of it more closely reflects what I have spent at the bowser. that and the added safety of being able to actually overtake without having to speed for excessive amounts of time as you get a "run up" down a hill...

all in all I spend about 40% less and get a much better engine and drivable car for it.


not always the same for every car and situation tho.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2020, 3:42 pm

Thanks for all the advice guys :-)

$5000 just to replace the head, on the assumption the bottom end is fine. Sounds like a stupid price to me so I don't think he wants the job anyway.

I'll bring it home tomorrow and pull the head so I can at least determine exactly what the damage is. It might just need a head gasket if I'm extremely lucky :-) I've had cast-iron head/block engines before that have gotten so hot as to seize up, but they ran fine for years afterwards with no damage. This never got so hot it wouldn't turn on the starter motor.

Secondhand 1HZ engines seem to be available for around the $5K mark, which lets me drop one in and rebuild the original at my leisure. Haven't got a price on a secondhand or rebuilt head yet. Full engine rebuild kits, including sleeves are only around $1500-ish. With 406K on it now I'd prefer to build the engine completely if I have to take the lid off anyway. But time is a problem just now. Did the timing belt and water pump 12-months ago.

Fuel economy generally runs around 7kpl on premium diesel, although I filled it the day before and it got 6.2kpl on the last tank. Most likely just due to the depth of the mud we've been dealing with lately, but could also indicate the beginning of this problem.

I know nothing about the Barra, but happen to have an L27 Buick 3800 engine (VN Commodore I think it came out of) I've never managed to find a project for.

For a conversion I'd probably prefer to go with a 302 Cleveland just due to familiarity, I've owned and built a few of them, but they're significantly older than the vehicle which might make it difficult to comply with emissions ADR's. I like the LS1 but mainly because it's light, which isn't relevant here, even the cast-iron Buick is going to be a lot lighter (190kg from memory) than the 1HZ lump (340kg-ish?) - diesels are HEAVY.

I'll update once I get inside it.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by on_one_wheel » 10 Dec 2020, 7:23 pm

5k for a head?
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I bet you'll do better than that if you made a few phone calls.

Will you be swinging the spanners yourself?
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 10 Dec 2020, 7:33 pm

yeah knocking together an engine isnt that difficult its just time consuming, I think somehow there has been a big conspiracy to make it seem like its such an impossible task that you simply must take it to a mechanic and part with wads of cash.... in reality its pretty simple, engineering a block and head is different altogether, and something that you want to make sure you find a reputable and professional shop for.

I think he is swinging off the spanners himself based on some earlier comments of his.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by on_one_wheel » 10 Dec 2020, 7:36 pm

I'm guessing 5k for a head would be having a mechanic do the work.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2020, 9:47 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:I'm guessing 5k for a head would be having a mechanic do the work.


Yep, I'm building the car engine already so we took the ute into town for a diagnosis and repair quote, time being hard to find just now to build both of them.

I'm now looking for a car engine as well, the Z14XEP build is more complicated than the 1HZ. It would likely be quicker to swap In a secondhand car engine and build the ute engine than vice versa. Also half the price to buy, but hard to find as they're not very common here it seems.

Getting either vehicle going would take the pressure off, but we have steers to go to market very soon, so the ute would be more useful. Once I get the lid off I'll decide on a plan of attack :-)
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2020, 9:55 pm

Ziege wrote:yeah knocking together an engine isnt that difficult its just time consuming, I think somehow there has been a big conspiracy to make it seem like its such an impossible task that you simply must take it to a mechanic and part with wads of cash.... in reality its pretty simple, engineering a block and head is different altogether, and something that you want to make sure you find a reputable and professional shop for.

I think he is swinging off the spanners himself based on some earlier comments of his.


I've built well over a hundred bike and car engines, but I'm not set up for it here. I don't have a proper place to do it efficiently and all my tools are still boxed up from our interstate move as I haven't really needed them yet. Thankfully the really horrible weather is mostly over now which makes it a lot easier :-)
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2020, 5:25 pm

Drove the ute home this arvo, no problems at all, it ran just fine. Still full of water when I got home, no visible leakage, not at all hot.
Going to have to do some more diagnostics before pulling the head off I think. Going to have to order a diesel compression tester to measure over 500psi.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2021, 3:22 pm

bladeracer wrote:Drove the ute home this arvo, no problems at all, it ran just fine. Still full of water when I got home, no visible leakage, not at all hot.
Going to have to do some more diagnostics before pulling the head off I think. Going to have to order a diesel compression tester to measure over 500psi.


I've almost finished building the car engine, but when I've been waiting on bits I've managed to have some very basic looks at the ute.
We're still driving it, including towing the cattle trailer, and it doesn't get hot, use any water, or lack any power. Basically, it drives just as it always has.

I replaced some of the hoses that I could do in a couple minutes, one heater hose had split but wasn't leaking at all.
And I've found a pinhole in the top radiator tank, so I'm waiting on a new radiator.

But the $5300 quote to replace the head seems to have been either a complete crock, or a very, very poor diagnosis.
I haven't managed to do a compression test yet as it's quite involved and not something I want to rush in a free moment. Once I've sorted the car I'll be able to dive in more deeply.


As for the car, which was diagnosed by a mechanic as a "blown head gasket but compression is fine", that also was rubbish. Having stripped the entire engine down, the only problems I found were those I already knew about (blown rear main seal, leaking valve cover gasket, and 310,000kms of piston and ring wear), plus a totally blocked up crankcase breather system, certainly a very long-term problem that existed when we bought it, but one that I had never noticed during maintenance.

The valve cover is split horizontally, the top half acting as a long narrow chamber that filters the blowby coming up from the crankcase through two ports in the side of the block and head. The cover is a simple plastic casting but was remarkably heavy in one corner, that I couldn't explain other than being packed with crud, despite copious quantities of degreaser, diesel and compressed air that failed to move it. So I drilled a dozen half-inch holes through the bottom of it to get access, then used a dental pick and spray cans of degreaser to push what was essentially a very sticky turd through the cavity until I got it out the end. This blockage is the only cause I can find for the "espresso coffee" foam throughout the valve cover, it couldn't breath the moisture back to be burned through the engine so it just built up in the head. Zero indication of any coolant getting down into the crankcase or into the cylinders, the rest of the engine was in perfect condition.

Dropping the lifters, rockers and cams in today and she's finished, but I'm thinking of pulling the transmission for a service while I have access. Although the Z14XEP engine is a mongrel to work on, I am impressed with its quality. Only .030mm to 0.051mm of cylinder wear in 310,000kms and no measurable wear at all to main or rod bearings, or the valve train. Camchain was way past replacement though, it was slack and the tensioner was fully extended already. There is wear on the cam lobes but nothing remarkable, and they're easily replaced later on anyway. One surprise is that virtually nobody rebuilds these in Europe because the vehicles devalue so fast. In the UK you can sell the secondhand catalytic convertor for A$500, the same as you'd sell the whole vehicle for. Which means there are thousands of low-mileage secondhand engines around for next to nothing - a quote from a response I got online - "A good replacement low mileage engine will only set you back £100-200 tops", which is less than the cost of the gasket set. So I had next to no information on how this was built or what I might want to be looking for inside it, which did add to the fun factor.
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Looks like a problem
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Not a happy engine
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Crankshaft back in
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New standard pistons
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Combustion chambers cleaned up nicely
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Head rebuild
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Setting cam timing
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 01 Feb 2021, 4:04 pm

Did a compression test yesterday on the 1HZ, and put in new glow plugs while I was at it.
#1-4 are 500psi, #5 is 475psi, #6 is 485psi. I did them twice and got the same numbers.
I've replaced all the hoses and the thermostat and did a cooling system pressure test, it holds pressure just fine.
So, from a $5300 diagnosis of a cracked head it appears the engine is as strong as it ever was.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by on_one_wheel » 01 Feb 2021, 8:27 pm

Good news !
In ya face MR $5300 :lol:

Out of interest, did you get that compression dry at close to operating temp?
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 01 Feb 2021, 9:35 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Good news !
In ya face MR $5300 :lol:

Out of interest, did you get that compression dry at close to operating temp?


Pretty much, it takes a little while to remove the glow plugs but the engine is still warm. I didn't bother doing a wet test as the dry were already good.

It was two different mechanics that diagnosed both vehicles as having blown heads when neither engine had any serious issues.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 02 Feb 2021, 9:33 am

so what was the real issue then?
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2021, 10:41 am

Ziege wrote:so what was the real issue then?


LHS heater hose ruptured, dumped all the coolant and she got very hot.

In the car it was just a blocked crankcase breather system.
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Re: Landcruiser engines

Post by Ziege » 02 Feb 2021, 11:23 am

righto sorted then aye?
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