Will we keep out Ute's much longer?

[Oldbloke]

Pollution, road damage, safety concerns. The grubiement is after out Ute's. But it's OK to jetset around the world in an aircraft that's near empty.


https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... a6171be0b2


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-09/ ... /103287604

[straightshooter]

Every profession has a stock in trade.
Politicians and societal urgers are no different.
Their stock in trade is hypocrisy.

[No1_49er]

Sometime, maybe not in my lifetime, this whole "climate change" narrative will be shown to be one of the biggest scams perpetrated on a gullible populace.
And you will regain the use of your diesel powered utes when it is shown just how massive the lie is re' the virtues of battery power.
For anybody who doubts that, take some time to investigate the amount of energy required, from start to finish, to produce a (usually Lithium ion) battery.

[Lazarus]

Sometime, maybe not in my lifetime, this whole "climate change" narrative will be shown to be one of the biggest scams perpetrated on a gullible populace.
And you will regain the use of your diesel powered utes when it is shown just how massive the lie is re' the virtues of battery power.
For anybody who doubts that, take some time to investigate the amount of energy required, from start to finish, to produce a (usually Lithium ion) battery.

Disregarding for a moment the rapidly accelerating deterioration in the state of the climate in general, you say climate change is one of the biggest scams perpetrated against the public, I have to ask, by whom and to what end?

Perhaps seek the opinions of people from Kiribati, Tuvalu etc, whose countries are disappearing as we speak, ask them if they think the climate is changing, because while our children are alive, those countries will cease to exist.

[wanneroo]

Climate has been changing since the dawn of time and will continue to change. If it didn't, the planet would be dead like Mars. All of these cycles are the way for the earth to cleanse and regenerate itself and pompous people somehow think they can interfere and regulate the earth like a thermostat at will.

And especially ridiculous is linking climate change to cars and trucks, that is a real hoot of all.

The western world is under attack from evil malthusian technocrats who use all sorts of excuses and hysterias to convince the normies they need to not reproduce, pay more taxes and rid themselves of any modernity with the end goal being to reduce the population and contain the world in a prison planet. Meanwhile they are flying into "climate change conferences" on their private jet with 40 car motorcades and dining on steak, lobster and cavier with $50K bottles of wine.

Watch what these people DO, not what they say. If the planet was being killed by all this they wouldn't have $100 million yachts, private jets and 40 car motorcades.

In 1986, the local meteorologist came to my elementary school and told us about the "greenhouse effect" and how Miami and New York would be under water by 2000.

Miami and NYC are still with us and if they do end up under water one day, well, it's the natural state of the world for things to change and humans will adapt as they always do.

[No1Mk3]

We know full well the climate is changing, but as Waneroo pointed out it always has. 15000 years ago there were ice sheets in New Guinea, Mt Kosciuszko was glaciated, as was virtually all of Tassie, the Great Barrier Reef literally didn't exist and Aborigine lived and hunted on a great plain East of the current Qld coast. Then the planet started a warming cycle which saw the glaciers leave, the sea rose and drove the Abo out of the plains, ( they literally watched the GBR grow where they used to live). The Earth has had a number of Ice Ages with warm periods between them and we are in another Inter-Glacial. No coal power stations or petrol/diesel cars 12000 years ago to "cause" global warming, just Mother Earth. The scientific argument was about the RATE of warming and what needed to be done to cope with the effects BEFORE disaster overtook low lying countries as it was coming and couldn't be prevented, only prepared for and doing what we could to not accelerate the RATE of warming. This whole concept hase been kidnapped by Slime-Green wankers and Vegan rat-bags who are pushing an anti-modern agenda whilst indulging in the most massive hypocrisy of living a modern life-style dependant on mining iron ore to make steel and sand/gravel to make concrete for their inner city hovels. Now they scream "stop global wrming" ( we can't, it is a planetary process) and vilify anyone who triess to tell them that.

[Lazarus]

We know full well the climate is changing, but as Waneroo pointed out it always has. 15000 years ago there were ice sheets in New Guinea, Mt Kosciuszko was glaciated, as was virtually all of Tassie, the Great Barrier Reef literally didn't exist and Aborigine lived and hunted on a great plain East of the current Qld coast. Then the planet started a warming cycle which saw the glaciers leave, the sea rose and drove the Abo out of the plains, ( they literally watched the GBR grow where they used to live). The Earth has had a number of Ice Ages with warm periods between them and we are in another Inter-Glacial. No coal power stations or petrol/diesel cars 12000 years ago to "cause" global warming, just Mother Earth. The scientific argument was about the RATE of warming and what needed to be done to cope with the effects BEFORE disaster overtook low lying countries as it was coming and couldn't be prevented, only prepared for and doing what we could to not accelerate the RATE of warming. This whole concept hase been kidnapped by Slime-Green wankers and Vegan rat-bags who are pushing an anti-modern agenda whilst indulging in the most massive hypocrisy of living a modern life-style dependant on mining iron ore to make steel and sand/gravel to make concrete for their inner city hovels. Now they scream "stop global wrming" ( we can't, it is a planetary process) and vilify anyone who triess to tell them that.

Absolutely

The problem we have to get around is the head in arse types who stamp their feet and say "it's not real, don't take my toys".

Our ICE vehicles are safe, electric cars are a passing fad, this is where things are going.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023/su ... 31632.html

https://www.drive.com.au/news/synthetic ... -tasmania/

[No1_49er]

A couple of comparison pictures for you.
And the sea level rose how much?

[deye243]

Climate has been changing since the dawn of time and will continue to change. If it didn't, the planet would be dead like Mars. All of these cycles are the way for the earth to cleanse and regenerate itself and pompous people somehow think they can interfere and regulate the earth like a thermostat at will.

And especially ridiculous is linking climate change to cars and trucks, that is a real hoot of all.

The western world is under attack from evil malthusian technocrats who use all sorts of excuses and hysterias to convince the normies they need to not reproduce, pay more taxes and rid themselves of any modernity with the end goal being to reduce the population and contain the world in a prison planet. Meanwhile they are flying into "climate change conferences" on their private jet with 40 car motorcades and dining on steak, lobster and cavier with $50K bottles of wine.

Watch what these people DO, not what they say. If the planet was being killed by all this they wouldn't have $100 million yachts, private jets and 40 car motorcades.

In 1986, the local meteorologist came to my elementary school and told us about the "greenhouse effect" and how Miami and New York would be under water by 2000.

Miami and NYC are still with us and if they do end up under water one day, well, it's the natural state of the world for things to change and humans will adapt as they always do.

Best thing I have read in a long time .
I was having a discussion with a greeny in the local pub one day and he's was babbling on about climate change and how the water levels are rising so I Politely asked him if he could explain to me how the water level down the local boat ramps here in my town have not risen for more than 50 years Other than tidle and wind effects. He was speechless funny as

[Lazarus]

A couple of comparison pictures for you.
And the sea level rose how much?

Seriously, pictures.
Taken when, by whom?
I can take one picture at high tide and one at low tide and claim that sea level is dropping, and there'll be those who believe it, because they want to.

Glaciers are shrinking by 1.2 trillion tons of ice per year, that's 1.2 quadrillion litres, where is it you think that water is going, if not into the sea?

How about we take it from the people who study the ocean and who actully know what they're talking about, backed up by peer reviewed studies.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sea ... 20glaciers.

[Blr243]

They can’t take utes of tradesmen, If they try to discourage us from having utes by implementing ridiculous registration fees , we will raise all of our quotes to customers

[No1_49er]

And I'm sure that there are people who come to this forum who believe that Phizer cured the worlds C19 problem or even that, according to the WHO, smallpox has been eliminated by the use of vaccines.
Yeh, right.

[on_one_wheel]

Strap a tiny little electric motor to the diff housing and call it a hybrid, go all out with a charging port and ev cord and take a Tesla driver's ev charging car park.
But yeah, it's definitely woke fad for now, give ev another 20 years and it'll be mainstream, by then anyone eating animal products will be treated like Hannibal Lecter and people driving ice vehicles will be yelled at by vegan Karen's on every street corner.

[No1_49er]

give ev another 20 years and it'll be mainstream.

I'm glad that you are so certain that there will be enough Lithium available for all the "mainstream ev's"
I presume you've also done the research on how much fossil fuel is used to extract all of your precious Lithium? Or the destruction of water resources used in the mining/extraction.

[on_one_wheel]

You assumed lithium was part of the future not me.

Personally I believe the only hope humans have of greening the planet is if we compost every human living on it.

[wanneroo]

We know full well the climate is changing, but as Waneroo pointed out it always has. 15000 years ago there were ice sheets in New Guinea, Mt Kosciuszko was glaciated, as was virtually all of Tassie, the Great Barrier Reef literally didn't exist and Aborigine lived and hunted on a great plain East of the current Qld coast. Then the planet started a warming cycle which saw the glaciers leave, the sea rose and drove the Abo out of the plains, ( they literally watched the GBR grow where they used to live). The Earth has had a number of Ice Ages with warm periods between them and we are in another Inter-Glacial. No coal power stations or petrol/diesel cars 12000 years ago to "cause" global warming, just Mother Earth. The scientific argument was about the RATE of warming and what needed to be done to cope with the effects BEFORE disaster overtook low lying countries as it was coming and couldn't be prevented, only prepared for and doing what we could to not accelerate the RATE of warming. This whole concept hase been kidnapped by Slime-Green wankers and Vegan rat-bags who are pushing an anti-modern agenda whilst indulging in the most massive hypocrisy of living a modern life-style dependant on mining iron ore to make steel and sand/gravel to make concrete for their inner city hovels. Now they scream "stop global wrming" ( we can't, it is a planetary process) and vilify anyone who triess to tell them that.

"Science" is learning new things all the time and there has been a lot of discoveries in the oceans off the coast of many places that were once land during the ice ages. Recently they found in the Chesapeake Bay artifacts of a village going back to the ice age. Similar such things have been found in the Mediterranean Sea. Many questioned the story of Noah's Flood in the Bible but we now know that during the melting of the Ice Age there were massive epic floods that filled the Mediterranean basin.

There is just always going to be change and that is that, humans will adapt and overcome.

One of the biggest frauds is that CO2 regulates the temp of the earth like a thermostat. We know this is false and it's the power of the sun that we really have to worry about. Without CO2 it's a dead planet and when we have more, it means more things grow.

The other fraud is the "fossil fuel" myth and that all hydrocarbons come from organic matter. They don't and they know this because hydrocarbons exist out in other parts of the universe where there is no organic material.

Frankly I would not be getting rid of any Ute or Truck until all the people flying into these climate change conferences give up their private jets, yachts, seaside mansions(obama we are looking at you) and 40 car motorcades. Stop listening to these fools trying to run your life.

[wanneroo]

Climate has been changing since the dawn of time and will continue to change. If it didn't, the planet would be dead like Mars. All of these cycles are the way for the earth to cleanse and regenerate itself and pompous people somehow think they can interfere and regulate the earth like a thermostat at will.

And especially ridiculous is linking climate change to cars and trucks, that is a real hoot of all.

The western world is under attack from evil malthusian technocrats who use all sorts of excuses and hysterias to convince the normies they need to not reproduce, pay more taxes and rid themselves of any modernity with the end goal being to reduce the population and contain the world in a prison planet. Meanwhile they are flying into "climate change conferences" on their private jet with 40 car motorcades and dining on steak, lobster and cavier with $50K bottles of wine.

Watch what these people DO, not what they say. If the planet was being killed by all this they wouldn't have $100 million yachts, private jets and 40 car motorcades.

In 1986, the local meteorologist came to my elementary school and told us about the "greenhouse effect" and how Miami and New York would be under water by 2000.

Miami and NYC are still with us and if they do end up under water one day, well, it's the natural state of the world for things to change and humans will adapt as they always do.

Best thing I have read in a long time .
I was having a discussion with a greeny in the local pub one day and he's was babbling on about climate change and how the water levels are rising so I Politely asked him if he could explain to me how the water level down the local boat ramps here in my town have not risen for more than 50 years Other than tidle and wind effects. He was speechless funny as

The problem with these people is they are driven by emotions rather than empirical data and reason. Any sort of rational data causes their brain to lock up and seize.

There is a house I vacation at in Massachusetts on the Atlantic Ocean every year. There is a map on the wall in the bathroom from 1880. It shows the property as it existed back then with the high and low tide lines running out to an island that can be walked to at low tide. 140 years later everything is still the same. I've seen pictures of it going back to the 1920s when a ship crashed into an island and it all looks the same.

So after 140 years of what the greens and malthusians say that all this modernity has destroyed the planet with CO2, here at this house, the Atlantic Ocean, the tidelines, the island, the big granite boulders, it's all as it was drawn back 140 years ago, where is the big flood? Even if the ocean changed by an inch, who cares? Even if it changes by a foot, again who cares?

It is shocking how easy people are manipulated by emotion and hysteria.

[wanneroo]

A couple of comparison pictures for you.
And the sea level rose how much?

Seriously, pictures.
Taken when, by whom?
I can take one picture at high tide and one at low tide and claim that sea level is dropping, and there'll be those who believe it, because they want to.

Glaciers are shrinking by 1.2 trillion tons of ice per year, that's 1.2 quadrillion litres, where is it you think that water is going, if not into the sea?

How about we take it from the people who study the ocean and who actully know what they're talking about, backed up by peer reviewed studies.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sea ... 20glaciers.

Big deal, glaciers melted big time during the Medieval Warming Period. Vikings settled and farmed Greenland and Iceland and Labrador.

Then it turned cold around 1350 and the glaciers grew again for a couple hundred years and then they started to retreat again. I went to a glacier in New Zealand that had signs marking where the glacier was back around 1650 and then it's retreat up the valley in the 1700s to now. Obviously if it was retreating in 1800 there were no Utes or Trucks around to cause that.

Glaciers are going to grow and retreat over the millennia and this will happen regardless of your "carbon footprint".

The fallacy is gullible humans think they can stop glaciers melting with a lot of taxes and by staying at home and not driving to the store in their ute.

I have to give to the propagandists how effective they have been convincing people being their slave and reducing their modern lifestyle and paying more in tax is going to regulate the earth's temp like a thermostat.

"But if we don't stop driving trucks and pay these carbon taxes, there is going to be 50 billion quadrillion gallons of water and the sea level will rise by 2 inches!!!"

Guess what, don't care, let it rise.

[No1_49er]

Here are some interesting questions that always seem to flummox the "green brigade".

Is it true that photosynthesis in plant life converts CO2 into Oxygen while sequestering the Carbon component?

Is that the basis for encouraging the planting of forests and rewarding the owners with “Carbon credits”?

Can you state, with scientific reference (evidence), what the ideal level of atmospheric CO2 is?

Do you contend that man-made CO2 will lead to a climate catastrophe?

Do you contend that anthropogenic CO2 production must be reduced to zero (nett zero)?

If the world-wide anthropogenic CO2 production is reduced to zero, and plants continue to photosynthesise CO2, does that mean the global CO2 portion of our atmosphere (CO2 ppm) will decline?

Do you contend that the declining CO2 level will “cure”, or reverse, the climate change?

If CO2 levels continue to decline, what will the effect be on plant life?

Is it true that edible plant production is improved / increased by artificially raising the CO2 level in the atmosphere within a green-house?

[Lazarus]

Here are some interesting questions that always seem to flummox the "green brigade".

Is it true that photosynthesis in plant life converts CO2 into Oxygen while sequestering the Carbon component?

Is that the basis for encouraging the planting of forests and rewarding the owners with “Carbon credits”?

Can you state, with scientific reference (evidence), what the ideal level of atmospheric CO2 is?

Do you contend that man-made CO2 will lead to a climate catastrophe?

Do you contend that anthropogenic CO2 production must be reduced to zero (nett zero)?

If the world-wide anthropogenic CO2 production is reduced to zero, and plants continue to photosynthesise CO2, does that mean the global CO2 portion of our atmosphere (CO2 ppm) will decline?

Do you contend that the declining CO2 level will “cure”, or reverse, the climate change?

If CO2 levels continue to decline, what will the effect be on plant life?

Is it true that edible plant production is improved / increased by artificially raising the CO2 level in the atmosphere within a green-house?

Yes

Yes

Yes, between 280 and 350ppm, it's currently 418ppm
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/what-id ... human-life

Yes, if the house is on fire, don't throw petrol on it.

Yes

Well, duh, yes

Above my skill level, but I hope so

I imagine that once the anthropogenic CO2 is removed from the system, the natural sources will maintain their needs.

Yes, but like oxygen, every living thing has evolved to tolerate a certain mix, too little they die, too much, they die.

PS
I find the irony of you demanding evidence to disprove nonsense you present without provinance to be quite amusing

[Oldbloke]

"These regulations, aligned with ‘Euro 6d’ standards, are scheduled to be enforced starting in 2025, accompanied by upgrades to the quality of locally sold petrol"
Infers that Ute's will comply or be off the road in a few years. I don't believe it.

1700 deaths annually due to exhaust pollution. I'd like to know where that number come from.

Heavy ute's damage roads, well just perhaps that's why we pay additional taxes on diesel.
Gruberment promised at the time it would go to maintaining roads.

How heavy are EVs? Big batteries.

[Lazarus]

"These regulations, aligned with ‘Euro 6d’ standards, are scheduled to be enforced starting in 2025, accompanied by upgrades to the quality of locally sold petrol"
Infers that Ute's will comply or be off the road in a few years. I don't believe it.

1700 deaths annually due to exhaust pollution. I'd like to know where that number come from.

Heavy ute's damage roads, well just perhaps that's why we pay additional taxes on diesel.
Gruberment promised at the time it would go to maintaining roads.

How heavy are EVs? Big batteries.

Heavy and getting heavier, faster than petrol cars

https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com ... C%20faster.

I was an early believer in EVs, amazing what some evidence can do to wishful thinking.

[Tank]

Hey Laz……
How many of the life saving jabs have you had?
The full course I imagine…..
Zealotry doesn’t make you right.
Go in peace…..

[Lazarus]

Hey Laz……
How many of the life saving jabs have you had?
The full course I imagine…..
Zealotry doesn’t make you right.
Go in peace…..

Hey Tank, being one of those most vulnerable to covid, you bet your little ballbag I'm fully vaccinated, and you are right, they saved my life.

I deduce from that question, that you could possibly be one of the "enlightened ones" who think covid was a hoax and the vaccine a nefarious plot to fill us with trackers, or gene manipulators, or whatever the current nonsense may be.
That's your right.
I know a guy who totally believes he's been kidnapped by aliens and probed in the blurter, that's his right too.

[Tank]

Good luck to you Lazarus…..seriously.
My tinfoil hat has served me wonderfully.
So far….as a ‘conspiracy theorist’….I’m about 17 and 0.
Questioning things is what makes you a critical thinker Laz.
Blind faith doesn’t make you right.
I wish you well.

[Lazarus]

Good luck to you Lazarus…..seriously.
My tinfoil hat has served me wonderfully.
So far….as a ‘conspiracy theorist’….I’m about 17 and 0.
Questioning things is what makes you a critical thinker Laz.
Blind faith doesn’t make you right.
I wish you well.

I don't have blind faith in anything Tank, not even myself.

So far you've suggested I'm a zealot, and that that doesn't make me right.
Right about what?
We were discusding EVs and you trot out covid vaccination for some no doubt bizarre reason.

You suggest I have blind faith, and that that doesn't make me right.
Agian, right about what?
Or is it just that because I don't see plots and communists behind every single thing I don't like, that I am automatically wrong about everything?

Then you end both strangley unrelated comments with a smarmy endearment.

All of this and your unsolicited mention of how all your conspiracy theories have come true, seems to suggest you are one of the merry band of ultra right, who are so far out there, they make Hitler look like a commie.

17 conspiracy theories, that's an impressive amount of irrationality right there.
Despite myself, I'd be interested to hear which 17 of the seemingly endless trove of numbskullery out there, that you believe have come to fruition.

Oh and, have a nice day

[AneemA]

Noone has mentioned the potential benefit of a near zero noise vehicle will have for hunting? I've got a mate in Canada who's doing significantly better with his hunting in forestry areas slowly and quietly getting around on an electric bike than he was lumbering along in his diesel Colorado.

Personally I'm really looking forward to having an electric ute one day. I love my electric ride on mower. I also love my Hilux but having driven electric things, I now can't wait for an electric ute that's up to the task (not here yet, but not too far away)

[on_one_wheel]

A couple of comparison pictures for you.
And the sea level rose how much?

You're completely missing the point.

You're supposed to feel guilty
You must pay some form of climate tax
Just like Covid 19 .... trust the science.

[Oldbloke]

I think its coming but needs to happen over,,,say,,,15-20 years.
And what are other countries doing, in some cases SFA. China is still building coal power stations.

Need more range and fuel points. Ute's need more load capacity as well IIRC.

I'll never see EV trucks but hydrogen is a possibility. Few buses about now.

I would really like a quiet ute or car.
I drove a high end Mercedes EV for about 20km about 18 months ago. What can I say, magnificent.

[Lazarus]

I think its coming but needs to happen over,,,say,,,15-20 years.
And what are other countries doing, in some cases SFA. China is still building coal power stations.

Need more range and fuel points. Ute's need more load capacity as well IIRC.

I'll never see EV trucks but hydrogen is a possibility. Few buses about now.

I would really like a quiet ute or car.
I drove a high end Mercedes EV for about 20km about 18 months ago. What can I say, magnificent.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/ ... alia-83988