My kingdom for a manual

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My kingdom for a manual

Post by Swarm » 16 Feb 2016, 10:05 am

Seems like everything, whether you're looking at a 3 tonne land cruiser or a street racer and everything in between is all going away from manual these days.

Either they're only made in manual or for every 1 manual on the road there is 30 automatics.

Or people trying to tell you tip-tronic or paddle shift is "the same" as manual :roll:

Shopping for a new car isn't as easy as it used to be if you're a driver, not a steerer.

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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by AusTac » 16 Feb 2016, 10:28 am

More autos around for sure, but for some applications you just can't beat a proper clutch driven manual, also they are lighter, cheaper, slightly more efficient, more direct drive and cheaper to fix, and less likely to give you weird codes in the middle of no where, i for one wouldn't have a auto
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by sandgroperbill » 16 Feb 2016, 11:16 am

Especially in a fourbie. Now I know, I know, autos in fourbies improved over time and I know a lot of people like autos in their fourbies, but it,s not for me. I want full control. I hate the idea of automatics in fourbies. A daily driver I don't care either way whether it's manual or auto.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by brett1868 » 16 Feb 2016, 12:04 pm

Transmission choice for me comes down to the type of driving I'll be doing the most of when deciding what to buy. In my youth and love of sports cars it had to be manual or nothing, then as years went by and I got sick of replacing clutches, flywheels and pressure plates I made the switch to auto in 2011. I drive a VE Series II with the retarded 6L V8 and manual wasn't an option with the Calais from memory. I wanted auto anyway due to the AFM feature (not available on the manual) where in light load conditions it'll drop back to a V4 configuration which vastly improves economy on longer trips. If I have a momentarily relapse to my youth I can flick it to full manual mode and smack the rev limiter from 1st to 6th if I wish and back down to 1st under hard braking similar to a manual.

The 4x4 Auto Vrs Manual question is interesting, having watched the rock crawler guys and mud racers they are almost evenly split down the auto / manual transmission choice while the monster trucks are almost always automatics. Choice comes down to personal preference and the type of driving you intend doing. I can drive all 3 types of transmission and don't have a preference for any one over the other.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Die Judicii » 16 Feb 2016, 3:55 pm

Well said Brett, however the OP has got a point.

Remember,,,, once upon a time, Auto was "an optional extra"

Nowadays it not only has reversed, but the "option" to have a manual has almost vapourized.

As well,,, don't lose sight of the fact that you cant drive down a hill unless you have "hill descent"
Along with the myriad of other innovations taking away "driver skill" :violin: which brings us back full circle to what the OP was saying.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by brett1868 » 16 Feb 2016, 4:44 pm

True, I can remember the days when manuals were the norm where as now the situation has reversed. My old man had an old Valiant (he had several over the years) which had the push button automatic transmission and he thought he was driving a Rolls. Actually, in those days growing up in Marrickville Valliant's were referred to as Marrickville Mercedes :) manuals had the edge due to better fuel economy and more ratios but with the modern 6 speed Auto it's almost the same now. Yep, they can throw some weird errors when something goes wrong but having a gear position sensor screw up on a manual years ago it's not a problem specific to the auto.
Hill descent and all those types of tech is more about ABS brakes then transmissions, I used to do the odd club motorkhana grass events and the first mod was to disable the ABS by yanking it's fuse. At least on the crapadore I can disable all the electrickery traction control crap when I hit the dirt or it's a fight between me and the computer to stay on the road.
Best of both worlds could be the full auto manual transmission, I've driven Kenworth's, MAN Coaches and even the little Budget moving trucks that use it and liked it :)
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Gwion » 16 Feb 2016, 9:46 pm

Manuals are just better. A bit like butter and margarine.....

Something about looking down a steep, rocky descent doesn't make me comfortable in an auto...

Mind you, i'm getting old enough where i sort of get the choice of an auto for city driving.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by MalleeFarmer » 19 Feb 2016, 12:23 pm

Interesting points on here!! I'm 25 and I really dislike autos and after driving my Kenworth around I'm starting to dislike syncros as well. I do a fair bit of 4x4ing and both of my 4x4s are manual for that matter they don't even have abs brakes. It's the only thing to have off-road in my opinion. If you're proficient in a manual you will give very little away to an auto. I also hate the new cars ability to prevent you from driving. Everything from ABS to auto parking. I mean in the next few years kids won't know how to drive. Cars that slow down automatically as you get behind another car on the road 4x4s that do everything you need them to so when the abs pack up and your car can't use its traction control you end up stuck somewhere and can't get out! Cars nowadays remind me of the government!!

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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by on_one_wheel » 19 Feb 2016, 2:51 pm

A properly set up auto in a 4x4 provides far better control and torque transfer to the ground than a manual. They also have the added advantage of being able to change gears under water without the risk of wetting the clutch.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Gwion » 19 Feb 2016, 3:07 pm

I must just be old fashion with cars then. Of the opinion that less gizmos means less to go wrong as well as being cheaper/easier to fix.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by brett1868 » 19 Feb 2016, 3:50 pm

I think with auto that many people have no idea how to drive them manually. Have a look at the shifter and there's generally a few options below drive that can be used to descend hills so you're not cooking the brakes or to accelerate hard to the redline. I did my HC license with the good old fashioned non synchromesh dog box, the double clutching on downshift to swap cogs is a real skill to master (I'm still trying). People generally have a preference for what they "know" and since many of the youngsters learn on auto then that's all they'll ever know or use. Pity really cause I think learning to drive a manual should be mandatory as it makes for better drivers in the long run. As Ned would say "Such is life".
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Gwion » 19 Feb 2016, 4:02 pm

Yep. I don't reckon you truly learn to control a vehicle unless you learn to drive a manual properly. Not that i'm the worlds best driver but you really learn how to keep the car on the road driving a manual properly.

I also drove an auto for a few years and use 1st & 2nd but it's just the idea of the auto gear box giving out that i don't like, particularly out bush. Chances are slim in a well maintained vehicle but if it happens, you're not going anywhere.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2016, 7:36 pm

Its just horses for courses. What the main use is and personal preference.. If like me you drove 3 hrs a day in peak hr traffic to get to and from work you would prefer an auto. For many years I drove and prefered a manual, not any more. For the ocassional bit of 4x4 I do the auto is fine.

Both have advantages.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by MalleeFarmer » 19 Feb 2016, 8:09 pm

brett1868 wrote: I did my HC license with the good old fashioned non synchromesh dog box, the double clutching on downshift to swap cogs is a real skill to master (I'm still trying).


Hey Brett did you ever just use the box clutchless? I have found that going both up and down is much simpler if you just pretend the clutch is there for start and stop. Also I don't think anyone ever mastered them entirely. I've spoken to a few blokes who have driven trucks their whole lives and still recon some days they just cannot find a gear without grinding teeth.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Die Judicii » 21 Feb 2016, 9:39 pm

Gwion wrote:I must just be old fashion with cars then. Of the opinion that less gizmos means less to go wrong as well as being cheaper/easier to fix.


I agree wholeheartedly there bloke. :thumbsup:

I know this isn't "transmission", but to make a point on "cheaper / easier to fix",,
I recently had an exhaust manifold gasket blow.

When cars were basic, you could go to your local speed shop and buy an extractor gasket which was cheaper than the genuine part, and with a couple of ring spanners the average bloke could effect the repair on the front lawn in about 3/4 hour.

Not so now.
I was told that the exhaust manifold would be warped, and wasn't recommended to have it machined, so a new manifold was in order to go with the real culprit,,,,,, the gasket.
Now I'm pretty handy mechanically, and have a workshop full of tools that a lot of people would drool over,,,,,,,,,
But I still couldn't do this repair myself.
Because the TURBO has to come off to be able to do the gasket and manifold.
Mr Average CANNOT be mucking around with turbos.

End result,,, they kept the price down to a minimum for me,,,,, but it still cost me $1,500.00

In the older days on an EH Holden I could've done it for the cost of the gasket,,,,,,,, from memory, approx. $7.50

Gimmee back "simpler easier more reliable as well as cheaper" :thumbsup:
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by sandgroperbill » 21 Feb 2016, 11:32 pm

Im with you. Give me something you can fix with a few ringies, a pair of pliers and a hammer
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by zobster » 22 Feb 2016, 12:52 pm

Never knew my partner couldn't drive an manual else I would have gotten one. Now that she's moved in with me, my car suddenly becomes her's to use whenever! It would never have happened if it was a manual. It would also not have 3 extra pinstripes all along the passengers side and about 2 shopping bags worth of "women's essential" scattered all throughout the car.

Just in case you guys can't tell, I'm kicking myself for not buying a manual!
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by sandgroperbill » 22 Feb 2016, 12:54 pm

Only for not buying a manual? :)
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Die Judicii » 22 Feb 2016, 5:36 pm

zobster wrote:Never knew my partner couldn't drive an manual else I would have gotten one. Now that she's moved in with me, my car suddenly becomes her's to use whenever! It would never have happened if it was a manual. It would also not have 3 extra pinstripes all along the passengers side and about 2 shopping bags worth of "women's essential" scattered all throughout the car.

Just in case you guys can't tell, I'm kicking myself for not buying a manual!



The old saying still applies,,,,, "If its got tits or wheels, it'll always cost you $$$"
:lol: :lol:
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by on_one_wheel » 22 Feb 2016, 7:35 pm

zobster wrote:Never knew my partner couldn't drive an manual else I would have gotten one. Now that she's moved in with me, my car suddenly becomes her's to use whenever! It would never have happened if it was a manual. It would also not have 3 extra pinstripes all along the passengers side and about 2 shopping bags worth of "women's essential" scattered all throughout the car.

Just in case you guys can't tell, I'm kicking myself for not buying a manual!


You need to set the ground rules early mate ...
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by happyhunter » 23 Feb 2016, 4:40 pm

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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by Title_II » 24 Feb 2016, 11:48 pm

I haven't had a manual in years, but that is only because I have had long commutes with frequent traffic problems. I certainly prefer a manual otherwise. You can't drive an auto. You just make suggestions to it and it does what it thinks you want. There is so much more control with a manual. Even if the auto can get me 0 to 60 mph a few tenths of a second faster, the manual will never sit there and do nothing when I floor it because it's going the wrong speed in the wrong gear to do anything.
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Re: My kingdom for a manual

Post by ebr love » 01 Mar 2016, 12:58 pm

happyhunter wrote:Autos are getting pretty good these days and the convenience is starting to appeal to me.. or maybe I'm getting old :D


They're a lot better than they have been in years gone by, that's true.

Personally still prefer the manual as I find them a bit more predictable/responsive and you can anticipate and drive them accordingly if you know what I mean?

You have a little more direct access to power as you can shift right to the most suitable gear instead of waiting for the trans to decide and downshift.
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