Winching with two hand winches at once

[Die Judicii]

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Back in my younger and sillier days I got bogged in Murray river flood plain clay more times than I can remember. I've used a ratchet come along with success but they're slow and hard work. Then I bought a 3/4 tonne Tirfor at a clearing sale for $160. These things can pull WAY above their rated weight. I've pulled out a mates 3 tonne tractor that had broken through the surface crust in a chopped up gateway and sank to the foot plates. Two snatch blocks was the key on that job. Have also used a Hilift jack to move my ute sideways 2 meters to get un stuck. I found that a winch on the front of a 4x4 is expensive ballast as every time I've been bogged forwards was the last direction I wanted to go. If I was fitting an electric winch I'd be mounting it on the back!

You mean like mine above ?

I bought this winch new, and this is the 4th vehicle I've mounted it on.
This is the first time I've fitted it on the R Send.
It is very successful, but you have to jump through quite a few hoops to make it successful.

An adequate power supply being the first hurdle, cos they draw a lot of current.
I have the heaviest welding cable available,, carrying juice from the front battery via two heavy duty solenoids, to a second battery mounted with the winch itself.

It's always easier to pull yourself out backwards.
If you are hell bent on getting thru to the other side, you can still do it albeit in reverse.

[Noisydad]

Yup! Just like that!

[pomemax]

I saw this some time ago interesting way to help yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFDGGht3CQU

It never fails to amaze me how much the yanks talk.

I could explainn that in 2 minutes

yep i watched about 30s of that and knew what i neded

[albat]

http://www.bushwinch.com.au/the-bush-wi ... rsatility/ check out this one

[Oldbloke]

http://www.bushwinch.com.au/the-bush-winch-advantages/direction-versatility/ check out this one

I heard about this idea 40 yrs ago. But never seen one. I get the feeling bush mehanics would have made these in the past. They seem to have potential.

[wanneroo]

People might be surprised how many get killed winching. It's something I think a lot of people don't think about or don't take seriously. To me when it comes to off road recovery, the winch to me is the last resort. It's risky and can take forever. I'd rather use a high lift jack or air bag jack to build up stuff under the vehicle or preferably get snatched out with a sturdy snatch strap by another vehicle.

A couple of things I can think of right now to take into consideration:

1. Tire mire. In general if you are bogged up to the edge of the wheels you will need two times the weight of your vehicle in pulling power to get out. If you up to your axles you will need 3 times the pulling power to get out. Depends on your terrain and conditions and how badly you think you might get stuck, but that needs to factor into what equipment you purchase.

2. Anchor points. Anchor points coming loose on vehicles kill people. I know of cases in Australia where ripped off anchor points have come through windshields and killed people. Whatever winching you plan on doing you better have solid anchor points on your vehicle. Also you've got to think about what you can anchor to, another vehicle, a tree, a Pull Pal(another $500 but they do work) and how sturdy is that anchor point. I'd also recommend a tree saver(looks like a short snatch strap), that helps displace some of the force if you use a tree or similar object to anchor to.

3. Cable. Lots of people use steel cable still. It works but if it breaks and you are in the way there are plenty that have ended up decapitated, sliced in half and all the rest. Synthetic cable is more expensive but safer. When winching I would cover the cable with jackets, towels, etc. or you can buy a weighted bag to set on the cable. Doing so will help keep the likelihood of cable failing around and injuring someone.

[Gwion]

^^^
Good info for the less experienced!

[Die Judicii]

^^^
Good info for the less experienced!

Here's a bit more for those a little inexperienced.

> What our Yankee friend said plus,,,,

When winching from the front, always put your bonnet up to save the windscreen.
Never ever step over the cable or stand close by in case of breakage under tension.
Most winch remote controls have a long cable,,,, use that length to operate from way off to the side, or get into the vehicle.

Also, if using snatch straps, NEVER hook it onto a tow ball,,, always use the tow hooks that most 4WD's are supplied with.
If the tow ball snaps, it becomes a steel cannonball.

Several years ago, a local 4WD accessory shop made a TV commercial, that showed a snatch strap
being hooked onto a tow ball.

[on_one_wheel]

There's lots of 12 000lb winches on the market, something to remember is that most steel bullbars are only rated to around
9 500lb.

I think winches are great, most people lug one around on the front of their bus for years, addind weight to your bullbar which in turn puts extra stress on tour chassis on rough roads and come time to use it .... when you're REALY stuck you realize that that lump of junk has sat there for 5 years in the elements without use or maintenance and is now frozen solid.
Keep em serviced folks.

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There's 2 types of four wheel drivers, those who put every effort into completely avoiding trouble and heros looking for a challenge.
Look at that idiot in the picture. .. perfectly good road around the mud hole, no he'll just lob straight into it.

[bladeracer]

Look at that idiot in the picture. .. perfectly good road around the mud hole, no he'll just lob straight into it.

And further tearing the road up that other people will have to drive through someday.

[Wes]

Whats a s/h tirfer cost. They used to be popular.

Seems about $300 - $500 depending on model and condition.

[Bourt]

2. Anchor points. Anchor points coming loose on vehicles kill people. I know of cases in Australia where ripped off anchor points have come through windshields and killed people. Whatever winching you plan on doing you better have solid anchor points on your vehicle

When you say 'anchor' point I assume you're talking about people using factory tie-down points or the tow-ball rather than a purpose built recovery point?

[chacka]

Could be a goer at $100 instead of $1500.

You can certainly get a lot of gear for what you would pay for a winch, a lot of which you will (probably) use more often.

Like On One Wheel said, you need to service the things too, so that's more of an expense.

Compare $1,500 for a winch fitted like you've said. You could get that, or...

Hi-Lift Jack $180
Wheel-mate $80
Recovery kit (snatch strap, a few bow shackles, gloves, bridle, damper blanket) $200?
Pair of maxtrax $300
Tow hitch recovery point $50
Front recovery point $400?
12v air compressor and gadgets $200?

More stuff, depending on what you've already got or think will be useful to you.

Portable cooler to have a beer while you're stuck?

If your not doing really boggy stuff where you definitely need a winch that'll get you out of 99% of jams. This like the Hi-lift jack you can put to multiple uses, on-board air compressor to be able to drop tyre pressures for off road and sand driving will help avoid getting stuck before it happens too.

[Die Judicii]

2. Anchor points. Anchor points coming loose on vehicles kill people. I know of cases in Australia where ripped off anchor points have come through windshields and killed people. Whatever winching you plan on doing you better have solid anchor points on your vehicle

When you say 'anchor' point I assume you're talking about people using factory tie-down points or the tow-ball rather than a purpose built recovery point?

READ MY LAST POST ABOVE.

DEFINATELY NOT THE TOW BALL (if you value life or limb)

[Oldbloke]

A high lift jack can double as a winch if you're desperate, that's all I have.

I put more energy and effort into avoiding getting stuck in the first place but failing that, 95% of the time all I need is a shovel.

I think if you just want a winch for that rare ocassion you get stuck one wheel is on the right track. High lift jack plus some basic kit will get you out of strife.
Just some chain, bow shackes and chain hooks and your in business.

Winches are expensive and if you are smart rarely used. And have thought about economocal options. I bought my 4x4 to keep me out of trouble, but I think Ill keep my eye open for a jack at the right price myself now.

[Bourt]

DEFINATELY NOT THE TOW BALL (if you value life or limb)

I know this.

I'm clarifying what he means by "anchor point", at that would not be clear in most people's terminology whether he means a rated "recovery point" or a factory "tie-down" point.

[Lorgar]

I think if you just want a winch for that rare ocassion you get stuck one wheel is on the right track. High lift jack plus some basic kit will get you out of strife.

Just some chain, bow shackes and chain hooks and your in business.

Winches are expensive and if you are smart rarely used. And have thought about economocal options.

+1 for this and what Chacka said.

For about $800 you can get a Hi-Lift jack, Lift-Mate, 4x Maxtrax and a shovel, which will let you get yourself out any trouble short of being bogged to the axles (which doesn't like a possibility with the driving you're doing?)

For an extra $150 you can get a tow-hitch recovery point, snatch strap and shackles required for that one in a thousand time you can't get yourself out with the above bits, so that someone else can snatch you out.

For $250-$400 (depending on brand) you can get an on-board air compressor, lines, fittings, gauges etc. to be able to drop/increase tire pressures in the field to help avoid getting stuck in the first place.

Once off cost for all of it, no installation or servicing required, nothing that can really fail if not used for a few years, all lasts basically forever, and you can leave it in the shed instead of carrying it around when not in use.

Two cents.

[Die Judicii]

Two cents.

To be honest, it really comes down to an individuals affordability and choice.
When I first started 4x4 ing, and going bush I didn't have a winch.

And even trying my hardest NOT to get stuck, one day I did.
If I had a snatch strap it wouldn't have helped in the least bit, cos I was on my own.
As it turned out, I walked 12 klms,,, and not a single vehicle came along.
The nearest residence and a helpful owner drove me back, and retrieved my vehicle.

Before the week was over I bought the winch, and have never regretted it.

[Gamerancher]

My younger brother does a lot of beach fishing in south-west W.A. Doesn't own any recovery gear, reckons everyone else carries heaps of it and can't wait to get it out and use it. Spends the money he saves on beer!

[wanneroo]

2. Anchor points. Anchor points coming loose on vehicles kill people. I know of cases in Australia where ripped off anchor points have come through windshields and killed people. Whatever winching you plan on doing you better have solid anchor points on your vehicle

When you say 'anchor' point I assume you're talking about people using factory tie-down points or the tow-ball rather than a purpose built recovery point?

There are lots of different vehicles out there and lots of different set ups. Whatever you use for an anchor point on your vehicle should be rated to be able to take the strain of whatever it is you are doing. I found a few cases in Australia of people hooking up to bull bars or some sort of anchor point on the vehicle that turned out to be rusty and when strain was put on it, it shattered and the metal went flying. You can have a purpose built anchor point that could fail too. Tow balls, no.

I think some people don't understand the concept of tire mire. In general if you get mud or snow up to your axles you are looking at needing 3 times the weight of the vehicle to get out and the equipment that can take that strain. If you don't, things will break completely or get damaged.

[on_one_wheel]

My younger brother does a lot of beach fishing in south-west W.A. Doesn't own any recovery gear, reckons everyone else carries heaps of it and can't wait to get it out and use it. Spends the money he saves on beer!

I've seen that first hand.

While digging my wagon out of the sand on the beach, blokes with recovery gear hanging around like annoying salesman, "want a snatch? ... maxtrax ? I could winch ya out .."

I declined, if someone breaks their gear getting me out I'd feel obliged to pay for it .... what if they damaged their vehicle? $$$$

Here's something I'm yet to see anyone else do,
Dig like your digging the first trench on the front line and use your esky to cart in dry sand or dirt to build a "launch pad"
Once you've got a dry patch under the vehicle start slowly wheel rolling it to compact it while slowly making it longer and more compact.

Another one from left field I've successfully done is carrying water up from the beach and wetting the sand under and in front of the vehicle, not just a little water, countless bucket loads to wet it down deep.

[Gamerancher]

My worst experience with an "expert" happened years ago, mid '80's, while on Fraser Island with my then girlfriend, (now wife). Got off the barge having been given an hour long lecture by said "expert" about the do's and don'ts on the sand and being shown his "home-made" super-dooper rear towbar that could "pull a D-9 out"! Off the barge and up the beach we go, soon enough we come across a SWB landcruiser bogged to the axles in a creek. "Stand back everyone" says the expert, "I'll handle this!" Gets out his snatch strap, has numerous attempts at snatching the bogged vehicle out with his almighty hi-lux, which, it is plain to see for everyone watching, hasn't got a hope in hell. So he backs right up to the 'cruiser, drops the clutch one more time and gives it buggery. The towbar lets go, comes flying back through the air and collects one of the blokes from the cruiser mid-thigh, almost severing his leg. I spent the next three hours sitting in foot deep cold water holding a towel and keeping pressure on this blokes leg to stop the bleeding from the compound fracture while we waited for the paramedics to come from Hervey Bay.

[on_one_wheel]

holy s**t !

[Oldbloke]

There is one of those in every workplace.

[Lorgar]

To be honest, it really comes down to an individuals affordability and choice.
When I first started 4x4 ing, and going bush I didn't have a winch.

And even trying my hardest NOT to get stuck, one day I did.
If I had a snatch strap it wouldn't have helped in the least bit, cos I was on my own.
As it turned out, I walked 12 klms,,, and not a single vehicle came along.
The nearest residence and a helpful owner drove me back, and retrieved my vehicle.

Before the week was over I bought the winch, and have never regretted it.

"To be honest, it really comes down to an individuals affordability and choice."

It does

Don't get me wrong... I'm not knocking winches or trying to talk anyone out of one here. They're a great bit of gear and depending on what you're doing can be indispensable.

However, they're also the most expensive bit to buy, have ongoing maintenance costs, and for many people are the tool they're least likely to use (and where it is used they could have been gotten out easily enough without it).

I won't drivel on with how I use my 4X4, but in short, the likelihood of me needing a winch currently is as close to zero as it gets. I'm either in places I just won't get stuck, will only get into very minor trouble, and/or will have help about to be snatched out, and never out of anything too deep.

(And I'm fortunate enough to roll with a few mates who aren't idiots that I have to worry about turning into cowboys and doing a 15m run off for a snatch and breaking something/someone.)

I opted for what I outlined above, and spent the money on on-board air, recovery boards, straps/shackles, hi-lift etc. Cheaper, once off buys that I will use.

If you need a winch, if money is no object and you want to fit one just because, if you can justify buying one just for the peace of mine... whatever, if you want one, get one.

Just saying be smart with your cash. I'm don't think you'd dispute that a lot of people essentially pay $2k to add 50kg of weight to their bull bar.

If/when I do a trip through Cape York or the Kimberley's I'll definitely be getting one. But there is no real point for me before then.

2c / IMHO.