Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

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Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by ThePlinkster » 09 Jan 2021, 10:32 pm

Hey guys

Since I'm just about to get into hunting/hiking

I have been doing more research on wildlife/snakes in particular lately

And I've found some interesting results when it came to Victorian Snakes

And I thought I'd share that information with you folks
(for general knowledge, why not)

According to DELWP
The most common snakes found in Victoria are the:
- Tiger Snakes
- Lowland Copperhead Snakes
- Eastern Brown Snakes
- Red-bellied Black Snakes

The good news about the Victorian snakes is that the majority of those "common" snakes have very short/thin fangs
- Tiger Snakes: 3.5mm - 5mm fangs
- Eastern Brown Snakes: 2.8mm - 4mm fangs
- Red-bellied Black Snakes: up to 5mm fangs (approx)
- Lowland Copperheads: (relatively long fangs)

Long story short;
Amongst the "most common" snakes found in Victoria, the tiger snake, the eastern brown snake, the red bellied black snakes, they all have very thin/short fangs
Which is good news

The lowland copperhead snakes are the only "common" snakes found in Victoria that have "relatively long" fangs.
However, the lowland copperhead snakes are generally shy and prefer to avoid humans. (Just like most snakes I suppose)
If cornered, they will hiss loudly, flatten their body and flick or thrash about, usually without biting.
With further provocation they may lash out, though they are slow to strike and can be inaccurate.
In recorded history, the lowland copperhead only accounts for a dozen bites on record and one fatality.

To conclude;
From the research that I have done so far
Victoria does seem to be a pretty good place to hunt/hike as the snakes that we have down here in our state aren't too bad
(Compared to some of the other common snakes found in Queensland, NSW and WA etc)

Here are some honourable mentions;

The Coastal Taipan has the longest fangs of all Australian snakes - up to 13 mm
The Coastal Taipan is found all along the eastern coast of Queensland, down into the extreme northeastern corner of New South Wales.
It is also found in the northern part of the Northern Territory, and the Kimberley region of Western Australia.

The Inland Taipan is considered the most venomous snake in the world.
The Inland Taipan is estimated to have enough venom in each bite to kill more than 100 men.
However, this serpent is characteristically reclusive, placid and unlikely to attack.
It inhabits remote, semi-arid regions in Queensland and South Australia.
Encounters with the Inland Taipan are so rare than until 1972 they were considered a mystery species to the scientific community.

The Mulga Snake at three meters long is one of the longest venomous serpents in the world.
The Mulga snakes are found in every state except Victoria and Tasmania.
Mulga snakes have a relatively weak venom.
However, they can deliver a huge 150 milligram dose in one bite and are known to hang onto and chew victims as they inject their venom.

The Death Adder has fangs of 6mm to 8mm long
The Death Adder is generally found in eastern and coastal southern Australia, Queensland, New South Wales and South Australia
The Death Adders are not aggressive, they ambush to hunt and rely on camouflage rather than flight to avoid threats which renders them more dangerous to humans who venture into bushland habitats as they are easy to accidentally step on due to them being very well camouflaged.

:thumbsup:
Last edited by ThePlinkster on 11 Jan 2021, 10:08 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by womble » 09 Jan 2021, 11:04 pm

goddam coastal taipans with 13mm fangs. That’s ridiculous. What the hell are they killing with a 13mm hide, scuba divers ?

Good post though thanks for the info :thumbsup:
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Grandadbushy » 09 Jan 2021, 11:09 pm

G'day Plinkster mate if i were you i'd treat all snakes,'' especially the venomous ones'' with caution as they will bite regardless whether they are placid or agro , fang size is nothing for lethal capabilities of the venom , each snake has a fang size to cope with their venom and it's toxicity , there stories about some snakes don't usually attack and some do but it depends on the day and it may not be your day, western taipans sometimes will head in the other direction yet i've seen them bail up and stand their ground and become quiet aggressive , also the coastal taipan can be very aggressive, the mulga brown or the king brown aren't called ''bull terriers'' for nothing as they will latch on and chew, unloading vast amounts of venom also the taipan has been known to be a multiple biter then there's the red bellied black and my experiences with them is they tend to be fairly docile to the point my dogs would walk all over them whilst checking them out but my advise is still try and stay away from them , give them a wide berth when you encounter them and treat them with respect and as if they are ready to bite they are not to be messed with especially when you're way out in the bush and sometimes alone. :thumbsup:
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by boingk » 09 Jan 2021, 11:21 pm

A good snake is one spotted and left alone.

Protection is good, too, wear high boots and thick pants - I favour denim jeans in a comfortable fit.

Failing that, the best snake is a dead one. Use what you have - a long stick is as good a weapon as any. Don't fall for the pinning it with a forked one trick - what then? Courtesy and on your way? No thanks. Kill the damn thing from a distance if it's not going away and make it quick.

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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by cz515 » 10 Jan 2021, 6:48 am

Technically in most regions native snakes are protected. Tigers are aggressive esp during mating season, also they will come at you if you are in their way instead of other snakes that might take a detour around you.

Finally as they say its not the size of the fangs... but how they are used that matters
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Peter988 » 10 Jan 2021, 8:12 am

I haven’t done any research but I suspect that most deaths in Australia have been caused by the Eastern Brown. I don’t think it cares too much about it’s fang size.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by JohnV » 10 Jan 2021, 8:37 am

I think that research is bull I have seen brown snakes with longer fangs than that and much thicker . Anyway the snake does not inject the venom from the end of it's fangs , it injects from a hole in the base of the fang onto the puncture wound . So any clothing will soak up some of the venom but if you don't get the clothing off the bite sight immediately it starts soaking into the wound . Also if help is not coming soon then wash the bite site off immediately . I know Doctors say don't wash off the venom because it makes snake identification harder but they are not the one laying in the bush dying . So don't bother to correct me . If help is going to take hours then give yourself every possibility to survive . Then you bandage tightly from as far above the bite sight as possible down . Once the bandage pressure gets to the bite sight wipe off any blood that may squeeze out then continue . Staying calm and not moving around to keep your heart rate down as much as possible slows down the spread of the venom and allows your system to deal with it in small doses rather than a big rush of venom and your are way sicker .
Treated this way I have seen a person not show any real symptoms for 5 hours . Snake bite kit and an EPIRB don't leave home without it in the warmer months . That research is not going to be much help in surviving a snake bite . Learning how to treat a bite and having the right gear will help . You may never get bit ever but your gear could save someone else .
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Blr243 » 10 Jan 2021, 9:04 am

Good post John
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Peter988 » 10 Jan 2021, 10:01 am

JohnV wrote: So any clothing will soak up some of the venom but if you don't get the clothing off the bite sight immediately it starts soaking into the wound . Also if help is not coming soon then wash the bite site off immediately . I know Doctors say don't wash off the venom because it makes snake identification harder but they are not the one laying in the bush dying .


That’s interesting. I had always presumed you bandage straight over the clothing. I guess you are suggesting to cut the clothing away first? In this instance let’s use long pants as an example.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Peter988 » 10 Jan 2021, 11:13 am

All this snake talk has jinxed me. Just looked out the window and
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by animalpest » 10 Jan 2021, 11:29 am

The bandage and clothes will soak up the venom. Place the bandage directly over clothing. The less you move the limb, the better.

Often snake bites can be a "dry" strike so envenimation can be highly variable.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jan 2021, 12:50 pm

Different species of snake envenomate in different ways, some do indeed have "piped" fangs and inject venom directly into the tissues, others envonomate from glands either by running it along grooves in their fangs directly into the tissues, or apply it to the skin around the puncture site.

I think nowadays they don't bother trying to identify the species, they just give broad spectrum anti-venoms.

Agreed, learn it, and hope you never need to use it.


JohnV wrote:I think that research is bull I have seen brown snakes with longer fangs than that and much thicker . Anyway the snake does not inject the venom from the end of it's fangs , it injects from a hole in the base of the fang onto the puncture wound . So any clothing will soak up some of the venom but if you don't get the clothing off the bite sight immediately it starts soaking into the wound . Also if help is not coming soon then wash the bite site off immediately . I know Doctors say don't wash off the venom because it makes snake identification harder but they are not the one laying in the bush dying . So don't bother to correct me . If help is going to take hours then give yourself every possibility to survive . Then you bandage tightly from as far above the bite sight as possible down . Once the bandage pressure gets to the bite sight wipe off any blood that may squeeze out then continue . Staying calm and not moving around to keep your heart rate down as much as possible slows down the spread of the venom and allows your system to deal with it in small doses rather than a big rush of venom and your are way sicker .
Treated this way I have seen a person not show any real symptoms for 5 hours . Snake bite kit and an EPIRB don't leave home without it in the warmer months . That research is not going to be much help in surviving a snake bite . Learning how to treat a bite and having the right gear will help . You may never get bit ever but your gear could save someone else .
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by JohnV » 10 Jan 2021, 1:07 pm

bladeracer wrote:Different species of snake envenomate in different ways, some do indeed have "piped" fangs and inject venom directly into the tissues, others envonomate from glands either by running it along grooves in their fangs directly into the tissues, or apply it to the skin around the puncture site.

I think nowadays they don't bother trying to identify the species, they just give broad spectrum anti-venoms.

Agreed, learn it, and hope you never need to use it.


JohnV wrote:I think that research is bull I have seen brown snakes with longer fangs than that and much thicker . Anyway the snake does not inject the venom from the end of it's fangs , it injects from a hole in the base of the fang onto the puncture wound . So any clothing will soak up some of the venom but if you don't get the clothing off the bite sight immediately it starts soaking into the wound . Also if help is not coming soon then wash the bite site off immediately . I know Doctors say don't wash off the venom because it makes snake identification harder but they are not the one laying in the bush dying . So don't bother to correct me . If help is going to take hours then give yourself every possibility to survive . Then you bandage tightly from as far above the bite sight as possible down . Once the bandage pressure gets to the bite sight wipe off any blood that may squeeze out then continue . Staying calm and not moving around to keep your heart rate down as much as possible slows down the spread of the venom and allows your system to deal with it in small doses rather than a big rush of venom and your are way sicker .
Treated this way I have seen a person not show any real symptoms for 5 hours . Snake bite kit and an EPIRB don't leave home without it in the warmer months . That research is not going to be much help in surviving a snake bite . Learning how to treat a bite and having the right gear will help . You may never get bit ever but your gear could save someone else .

Yeah I know that but there is still a lot of literature around advising not to wash off the bite site .
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Blr243 » 10 Jan 2021, 1:20 pm

I can avoid crocs and sharks by staying out of their zone As long as I’m on land a snake Could be the most deadly animal in Australia for me
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Hatchet Jack » 10 Jan 2021, 2:58 pm

I did always enjoy reading about how snakes are more scared of us and are shy etc. I'm not anti snake at all, had more than my fair share of encounters growing up in the bush. Sometimes they're shy, sometimes they're defensive and sometimes they're straight up aggressive.

I know of two people locally bitten in completely unprovoked attacks. I've also had two run ins with the "timid" copperheads this summer. Neither time would they move off the track, one actually got real peaved off with us making noise at him and started getting aggressive.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Peter988 » 10 Jan 2021, 3:59 pm

The eastern browns can be nasty. I expect most of you saw this last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M0NrGE-p8s
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Grandadbushy » 10 Jan 2021, 10:28 pm

I worked with a bloke who got a call at work from his wife she said that his 2yr old son kept laying on the cold kitchen floor and was running a fever, he had been like that for a couple of hours, so he told her to take him to the hospital on arriving at emergency they done all the test for various things but couldn't find anything only a tiny scratch on his knee after about 4hrs he was still getting worse but his doctor must have been switched on and took blood samples for toxins and a half hour later they found that he most likely had been bitten by a snake and started to treat him, next morning he had slowly regained his strength, old mate went home and the only rubbish around the house was a small pile of wood beside his Bar-B-cue so he sifted through it and there it was a small taipan about 800mm long and apparently it could have been the snake that bit him because the young fella was playing near the pile early that morning, seems like it struck at him and only grazed him with one fang and the venom would have been leaching into his body slowly, if the fang had been deeper he may not have survived because of the time lapse from when he was bitten the the time he was diagnosed and finally treated, lucky boy in one sense , unlucky in another i suppose
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Ziege » 11 Jan 2021, 12:32 am

we get heaps of dugites here on the farm, I do get rid of them because the kids are young and vulnerable to not knowing if accidentally crossing paths with one due to panic.

however they are shy as and I have never seen one lash out ever.

Death adders on the other hand, growing up in the Gascoyne in western Australia has led to many an encounter with these little bastards... they are so well hidden and always on the edge of natural paths, I would advise against anyone venturing out amongst the creeks or shrubbery or spinifex without good boots on, seen a death adders fangs either side of a blokes toe imbedded into his thong before, with the arse end shot off with a 22.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Ziege » 11 Jan 2021, 12:37 am

Hatchet Jack wrote:I did always enjoy reading about how snakes are more scared of us and are shy etc. I'm not anti snake at all, had more than my fair share of encounters growing up in the bush. Sometimes they're shy, sometimes they're defensive and sometimes they're straight up aggressive.

I know of two people locally bitten in completely unprovoked attacks. I've also had two run ins with the "timid" copperheads this summer. Neither time would they move off the track, one actually got real peaved off with us making noise at him and started getting aggressive.



Yeah NEVER try to move on a Tiger snake during mating season, they will literally chase you endlessly, and bite many many times... I was chased up on top of our fishing shack when I was about 8 the snake was so focussed on me that it didn't even pay attention to my dad coming up to kill it with a star picket.

I have seen someone running for their life for about 400m down a path with one in hot pursuit too... not fun.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by wrenchman » 11 Jan 2021, 12:53 am

We have copper heads water mocosin and Eastern rattler in Kentucky were I hunt on fàmily land copper heads get into everything I don't like any of them.
My grand parents had to burn a outhouse down that got infested with copper heads the most evil looking seems to be the one that is keept around i was scared of them when I was kid is the black snakes.
My family would put them in barns in corn cribs.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Ziege » 11 Jan 2021, 2:08 am

wrenchman wrote:We have copper heads water mocosin and Eastern rattler in Kentucky were I hunt on fàmily land copper heads get into everything I don't like any of them.
My grand parents had to burn a outhouse down that got infested with copper heads the most evil looking seems to be the one that is keept around i was scared of them when I was kid is the black snakes.
My family would put them in barns in corn cribs.



I'm always winding up my american friends about how aussies dont need alarms on our snakes, bloody yanks and their rattle snakes haha...
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by JohnV » 11 Jan 2021, 7:50 am

Ziege wrote:
Hatchet Jack wrote:I did always enjoy reading about how snakes are more scared of us and are shy etc. I'm not anti snake at all, had more than my fair share of encounters growing up in the bush. Sometimes they're shy, sometimes they're defensive and sometimes they're straight up aggressive.

I know of two people locally bitten in completely unprovoked attacks. I've also had two run ins with the "timid" copperheads this summer. Neither time would they move off the track, one actually got real peaved off with us making noise at him and started getting aggressive.



Yeah NEVER try to move on a Tiger snake during mating season, they will literally chase you endlessly, and bite many many times... I was chased up on top of our fishing shack when I was about 8 the snake was so focussed on me that it didn't even pay attention to my dad coming up to kill it with a star picket.

I have seen someone running for their life for about 400m down a path with one in hot pursuit too... not fun.

That is correct those that say snakes are scared of us are just city people who have never seen a snake in the wild or in mating season , springtime . I have had a Brown snake rise up and strike the window of my vehicle several times , trying to get at me . The venom ran down the glass . When you don't respect the ability of animals that's when you get in trouble .
Snakes that are very poisonous know they can kill and if they are angry or in mating season look out .
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by BangWhizzClack » 13 Jan 2021, 5:58 pm

My father has been bitten 3 times by Tiger snakes in Tassie. When he was younger he was just walking in the bush and it bit him and slithered away, he walked home, got a fever for a few days, then recovered. The second time he was exploring the bush and got chased and stalked by one. It stalked him for km's and finally bit him. Same story, he went home, got sick but recovered. 3rd time was about 10 years ago, he saw one in his rear view mirror and he thought he accidentally ran over it, so he went to grab it and toss it aside, as he went to pick it up it bit him on the hand, he went to hospital, died, got brought back to life and then was in recovery for a few days.

Apparently snakes and spiders don't die until night time, they can still bite you and inject venom hours after you've "killed them".

I've come across quite a few snakes, I was walking up Mt. Wellington in Hobart a few years back during the summer, the amount of snakes I heard hissing at me was ridiculous, easily a dozen. I only saw one though.

Here in Vic I've only seen one snake, it was near the Yarra Trail, only saw it quickly before it went into the bushes, no idea what it was, it looked dark with some lighter hexagon-type shapes on it's back.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Ziege » 13 Jan 2021, 6:21 pm

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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jan 2021, 4:50 pm

Down load pdf


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... uuMKTcTDBF


Pages # 59

As its a pdf internet access is not required like some apps
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by JohnV » 15 Jan 2021, 10:12 am

That PDF is wrong on snake bite you bandage downwards keeping as much venom below the heart as possible not upwards .
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Jan 2021, 3:00 pm

JohnV wrote:That PDF is wrong on snake bite you bandage downwards keeping as much venom below the heart as possible not upwards .


John
I believe they are correct. The venom moves through the lymphatic system, not the blood stream. This government sight says the same as St Johns.


https://www.health.qld.gov.au/news-even ... by-a-snake
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Larry » 15 Jan 2021, 5:05 pm

To go back to the OP original post of fang size though. Who really cares unless you are really going in fine detail about gator construction. even then I would think the strength or resistance to being pierced would be more of something I would consider rather than the snakes fang length.
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by bigpete » 15 Jan 2021, 5:27 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
JohnV wrote:That PDF is wrong on snake bite you bandage downwards keeping as much venom below the heart as possible not upwards .


John
I believe they are correct. The venom moves through the lymphatic system, not the blood stream. This government sight says the same as St Johns.


https://www.health.qld.gov.au/news-even ... by-a-snake


Exactly. Got nothing to do with your blood foow
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Re: Victorian Snakes - Fang Sizes

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Jan 2021, 7:05 pm

Honestly, what are people worried about? About two deaths a year. Yes, I know, a lot get pretty dam sick. But two a year!

I'm never crossing the road again. Lol



https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... iger-snake
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