Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 6:44 pm

Blr243 wrote:Maybe google European home heating or underfloor heating. Cold European countries have many decades of experience in making their homes comfortable ........ it certainly is a great idea to make use of the outdoor fire heat source ,,,,,just a matter of thinking and working out how best to do it


I do have a 420amph battery / 12v solar system going on and I did consider under floor heating as per some euro's utilise BUT - as you say, it seems silly to have a smouldering fire outside that will burn all night, but then setting up another heat source only 3-5 metres away....

The brains trust will think of something...it's just a matter of how complex it might get lol.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 6:48 pm

brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide. I'm doing something similar with building a "Cabin" from a shipping container, I used a 40' high cube reefer as it's already insulated and the stainless steel interior makes it easier to clean. I'm going to use diesel heaters that run from 12v and plumb the intake / exhaust to the exterior.

DJI_0008.JPG


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-W-LCD-Switch-Silencer-For-Car-Trucks-Boats-Trailer-M2/132779587088?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


I worry about several things with diesel heaters...as you've already mentioned - CO can be an issue, the wind can do strange things sometimes...fuel is a steadfast requirement for heat and of course - ar#$holes in the middle of nowhere can and will wreck anything...how do you intend to plumb it into the skin - exhaust it ? Dont you then open the "skin" to vermin ingest ? I get over paranoid about CO since a colleague jumped into a telstra manhole and did not come out...
Edit - just googled and answered my own questions re these 12v diesel heaters...but I still somehow want to try and utilise the wood fire. Someone else has mentioned running a copper pipe inside of the exhaust but run the copper into the fire and have it filled with coolant with blow off valve for pressure - the heat from the fire will get the coolant to boiling temp, copper is a good conductor of heat, so it should resonate heat upwards over the course of the day and keep the room a few degrees warmer at night as a result....but F me - complicated to set up...
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by GQshayne » 03 Jun 2019, 8:08 pm

Hey Tassie, you ever seen a donkey hot water system???? A 44 gal drum heated by fire, with in and out water lines to run to a shower. Works very well. I have used a few over the years. You could do something similar, but run copper pipes into the cabin for the water to circulate, and radiate heat.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2019, 8:17 pm

GQshayne wrote:Hey Tassie, you ever seen a donkey hot water system???? A 44 gal drum heated by fire, with in and out water lines to run to a shower. Works very well. I have used a few over the years. You could do something similar, but run copper pipes into the cabin for the water to circulate, and radiate heat.


Yep, took the words out of my mouth. Water transfers heat far more efficiently than air. I would look around for an old water heater that they used in old hospitals/offices ( the ones beside the wall) or perhaps a truck radiator. Just a type heat exchanger.


Or why not just buy/DIY a pot belly stove
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 8:29 pm

GQshayne wrote:Hey Tassie, you ever seen a donkey hot water system???? A 44 gal drum heated by fire, with in and out water lines to run to a shower. Works very well. I have used a few over the years. You could do something similar, but run copper pipes into the cabin for the water to circulate, and radiate heat.


See - I knew the brains trust would come up with some good ideas. I'll research this one a bit further. Fank u :drinks:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2019, 8:39 pm

brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide.


Correct, low oxygen levels is also a concern. But not a huge amount of ventilation is needed to ensure safety. Just two 12" square vents placed at opposite ends of the container would be plenty. Perhaps a door vent (down low) and a window left a jar.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 8:54 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide.


Correct, low oxygen levels is also a concern. But not a huge amount of ventilation is needed to ensure safety. Just two 12" square vents placed at opposite ends of the container would be plenty. Perhaps a door vent (down low) and a window left a jar.


The entire cabin has been lined with VJ pine - so i'm not keen on any internal combustion at all - that and we already know that a hinged 9kg bottle made into a small wood heater is far too much heat for the little shipping container for which to sleep in...
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:23 pm

I'd put a small wood heater in and just open a window in it if it's got one if it gets hot, it's the same principle I use here in the cabin when it gets too hot I open a window and let some heat out. :D :unknown:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 9:29 pm

Then you've got a great big 6ft fire outside...just ticking away and burning through the night...kinda going to waste when beddy time comes...I mean if BFS was down here with me...well, who says we'd need any heating at all on those cold mountain nights.... :friends:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:37 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Then you've got a great big 6ft fire outside...just ticking away and burning through the night...kinda going to waste when beddy time comes...I mean if BFS was down here with me...well, who says we'd need any heating at all on those cold mountain nights.... :friends:


If the moneys right I'll be ya big cuddly teddy bear :D Seriously though what's wrong with ya brother, mother or sister? :D :lol: :sarcasm: :violin:

Just take some of the wood from the fire and put it in ya wood heater :D that way you aren't wasting it :D
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2019, 9:37 pm

⚠ Spooning is NOT permitted on the forum. :allegedly:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:39 pm

Have you been getting any snow where you are TAS? a good wood heater is hard to beat on a cold night no matter what it's in.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:40 pm

Oldbloke wrote:⚠ Spooning is NOT permitted on the forum. :allegedly:


It won't be on the forum, but we might be reading the forum whilst doing it :lol: :friends:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 9:45 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Then you've got a great big 6ft fire outside...just ticking away and burning through the night...kinda going to waste when beddy time comes...I mean if BFS was down here with me...well, who says we'd need any heating at all on those cold mountain nights.... :friends:


If the moneys right I'll be ya big cuddly teddy bear :D Seriously though what's wrong with ya brother, mother or sister? :D :lol: :sarcasm: :violin:

Just take some of the wood from the fire and put it in ya wood heater :D that way you aren't wasting it :D


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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Stix » 03 Jun 2019, 10:06 pm

Lol...

Well you can trust me with your sister--she is safe with me mate.!!..ive got a rule about the women i climb--never sleep with a chick who's bow sight isnt big enough for my manhood's girth to pass through... 8-)

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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Jun 2019, 3:04 am

Can you adopt me Tassie? :D
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Jun 2019, 4:00 am

Might have to put another log on the fire, she's snowing here at the moment. Thank fark for a good wood heater in the Cabin.

Image

Ya can even cook on em and boil water too - amazing all these modern conveniences these days for ya cabin :lol:

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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Jun 2019, 5:10 am

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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by trekin » 04 Jun 2019, 8:15 am

TassieTiger wrote:
brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide. I'm doing something similar with building a "Cabin" from a shipping container, I used a 40' high cube reefer as it's already insulated and the stainless steel interior makes it easier to clean. I'm going to use diesel heaters that run from 12v and plumb the intake / exhaust to the exterior.

DJI_0008.JPG


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-W-LCD-Switch-Silencer-For-Car-Trucks-Boats-Trailer-M2/132779587088?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


I worry about several things with diesel heaters...as you've already mentioned - CO can be an issue, the wind can do strange things sometimes...fuel is a steadfast requirement for heat and of course - ar#$holes in the middle of nowhere can and will wreck anything...how do you intend to plumb it into the skin - exhaust it ? Dont you then open the "skin" to vermin ingest ? I get over paranoid about CO since a colleague jumped into a telstra manhole and did not come out...
Edit - just googled and answered my own questions re these 12v diesel heaters...but I still somehow want to try and utilise the wood fire. Someone else has mentioned running a copper pipe inside of the exhaust but run the copper into the fire and have it filled with coolant with blow off valve for pressure - the heat from the fire will get the coolant to boiling temp, copper is a good conductor of heat, so it should resonate heat upwards over the course of the day and keep the room a few degrees warmer at night as a result....but F me - complicated to set up...

bigfellascott wrote:https://www.sydneydieselheaters.com.au/

We use a 5KW chinee one to heat our kitchen/dinning and lounge rooms in our 1890's Qlder here in the highlands of CQ, keeps those rooms at a comfortable 25 degrees even on the odd winter morns when the temps dips into the negitives.
Tas, it is probably a bit late, but I would have cut a square section out of the end wall, made a steel box to fit on the outside with flue and chimney (detachable for transport to site), and either lined with refractory brick for a fireplace or put a small wood heater in it. Temp and air qualitity comtrolled by opening/closing window/vent at opposite end of container and only making a small fire in the first place. Of course this could still be done on site by cutting the hole and then building fireplace with flue and chimney out of Bessa block or just stone and mortor.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by flutch » 04 Jun 2019, 4:51 pm

Only way I personally would do it is build what is referred to as a donkey outside purely to heat water, have a semi closed loop system (you want it to want to vent on the hottest side to create flow) and literally run that to a coil inside that can also be made from copper pipe as a means of heating, it's the simplest way and can be done with some bricks, an old water heater and reservoir and a gas torch and bronzing... Not much call for it here in WA but have heard of a few kiwis running something to that effect as well as tasweigans, maybe they can weigh in on it a little. Your other best friend in this situation is insulation look into products like insulbreak and the likes as they can have an r2 or greater rating at as thing as 8mm and are relatively cheap... Cheers
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jun 2019, 5:06 pm

Yeah - I’ve got R3 insulation wool/batts in all walls and roof - one reason a little internal wood heater is going to be too much. It was 12 degrees locally today and 20 in the container. It works lol.
I like the ideas of copper coils in / out - I’m starting to hunt up copper and looking for an old hot water cylinder to rape for parts...a small radiator in the line would work better but I like the idea of a copper still like condenser “heating decoration” in the corner lol.
I have also been told the Indians used to use a camp oven, shovel in a heap of coals, place on a stand and carry that into the tipis for a warm.

I’ve ALSO been told...12v underfloor heating is now pretty efficient and my solar set up would easily handle the few occasions it would be needed but that ignores the 10ft fire we built last weekend with a hired excavator lol
It’s all darts at a dart board at the moment...
Keep the ideas coming tho - it’s good brain food.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Sep 2019, 9:45 pm

Worked from 6-6 on this bloody thing today...getting there.
Picked up a couple rabbits at about 5...one was the unlickirst rabbit this side of Bugs - headshot him at about 85m in gale force winds. I’m not even sure I aimed...lol.
One day, I’m going to clean a rabbit and not cover the back legs in fur...ffs it s**ts me. Anyway. This place is still 3-4 months away from really being set up with flush toilet and fresh water, after that, I’ll open it up to the occasional weekend punter (must be a member) from Enough Gun.
There are rabbits, wallaby, roo, goats, occasional bambi and entire grounds are under a crop protection licence, so bit of opportunity for the stalker.
Anyways - couple pics of the build progressing...thanks to those with previous suggestions and Stix with his previous building advice.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Stix » 21 Sep 2019, 11:14 pm

Lookin good... :clap:

Atleast you got one pic orientated the right way up... :lol:

And hey...!...how's this for an idea-----you should put a fox skin on the wall... :D

(Its coming...only problem is rither had mange or ive blown a hole in every single one since...no kidding...!!) :roll:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Sep 2019, 11:38 pm

Haha - all good mate. If it happens...it happens.
I’ve finally got my CCTV system sorted now - reporting out over a directional 12db gain yagi...
This has allowed me to activate the intercom on the cameras and I ve already had one conversation with an unsuspecting snoopy...should have seen his face when one of the cameras yelled at him lol
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Stix » 22 Sep 2019, 12:49 am

It'll happen...

And thats a cracker...!!...can you/did you save the footage of mr snoopy... :lol:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Blr243 » 22 Sep 2019, 8:28 am

Colour me unimpressed with the idea of a snoopy being photographed,, I want more. I want a video of him trying to get a dog trap off his foot ( with sound preferably)
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by pomemax » 23 Sep 2019, 12:58 pm

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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by xDom » 25 Sep 2019, 12:40 am

I’ve gotta diesel heater in my caravan. They’re quite popular around the place.
I use a quality carbon monoxide detector and it’s never gone above zero.
Heats the van up extremely well.
I do understand the concern people have, I felt the same until I looked into it.
To my understanding, there’s never been a CO death from a diesel heater. While they’re fairly new in Australia, they’ve been used in European countries for years.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 25 Sep 2019, 5:22 pm

Some good ideas - some scary lol..
I now have expanded my solar system on site and have enough off grid power to run a 1800w electric heater over night if need be - but the big outdoor fire still looms...
I ran some UG galvanised 60mm pipe from just under the main pit of the fire to about 3m away just to see how much movement / heat etc would occur... ummm yeah...none. Smoke but zero actual heat. Looks like a closed liquid system is best way which becomes pretty darn involved...so might sit in the electric until other items are crossed off list...
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