Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

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Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 12:00 pm

I'm in the middle of a cabin (Container) build at moment, one that is going to be taken to site when finished and placed onto small stumps with a 5 m verandah.

We have built a large outdoor fire pit approx. 5m away from the cabin / container - the container is lined and fully insulated.

What are ppls thoughts on using the outdoor fire - to somehow heat the cabin ??
The thinking is that if I scrounged some old 3' exhaust pipe, and placed an open end of it into / under the huge outdoor fire pit and then snaked that pipe (welded)under the ground a few inches, then came up, just under the floor of the container - back and forth a few times, before exhausting it downwind as to try and get it to draw - would this heat the container ?

Any other ideas on how we might best utilise an otherwise wasted heat source whilst we sleep ?
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Chappo » 03 Jun 2019, 12:11 pm

Hey mate.
Personally I wouldn’t look into any way of air transfer as you would compromise the insulation of the cabin and leave yourself open to vermin and insects.
Also I don’t think you’d get any heat at the cabin end with just air through a steel pipe in the ground.

If the fire pit is lower than the cabin you could run flow and return pipe work from some kind of wetback to a radiator inside. This would work thermosyphonically without the need of a circulation pump.

You would need the pipe work to have a constant uphill gradient from the fire and it would need to be well insulated but it would be very efficient.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 12:52 pm

There are a couple of 4 inch cut outs under the container where the fork lift tines go in - this is a separate area to the internal part of the container - so wouldn't be compromising anything there.
I was just thinkin that the pipe itself would get hot after a time period of "flow" through the pipe and this would be enough to take the edge off inside due to heat rising from underneath the floor.
I did contemplate a 9kg gas bottle cut into a flip top as a little wood burner - but it 's simply going to get way too hot in there...as we experimented with a little electric and couldn't stay inside after about 45 minutes on medium.
The entire site is level now - so no real ability to use a wetback type set up...
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Chappo » 03 Jun 2019, 1:30 pm

You could try the warm air thing but I just don’t think it’d work.
Hot (or any air) won’t enter a sealed building without the same volume of air leaving the building which means you would have to have some ventilation to allow the warm air to come in. This is what I meant by compromising your insulation.

Heat transfer by air is also much less efficient than water. I doubt the air in the pipe would heat up even after a long period of time.
What you are describing is the same principle used to build a cold smoker where the smoke but no heat is transferred from a fire into a building.
But I guess you could hang a sh!tload of sausages in there!!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by wanneroo » 03 Jun 2019, 2:07 pm

I think you would be better served with some sort of radiant water heating.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Stix » 03 Jun 2019, 2:47 pm

I too was thinking water circulation.

If going the heat transfer thing by air, you'd be better served by doing somehow using radiant heat from the steel pipe...(not sure if that was your intention, but better that than to have hot air pumped in, as chappo said)
And to do this you'd probable need the hot 'exhaust' from the fire running through the pipe & the pipe through the cabin...
It would work im sure, but add other risks to the heating...such as smoke inhalatiin or fire given any internal leak.
Then there are building laws that require flue pipes to be sleeved to prevent injury & fire etc...

Also, im not sure how hot the ground would get below the fire, id imagine a bed of ash on dirt/sand is a pretty good insulator...so im not sure how much heat you'd get down below the fire... :unknown:

Dont need me to come down & build the verandah...?...could do that upper deck at the same time... :thumbsup: :lol:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by trekin » 03 Jun 2019, 3:28 pm

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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jun 2019, 5:12 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I'm in the middle of a cabin (Container) build at moment, one that is going to be taken to site when finished and placed onto small stumps with a 5 m verandah.

We have built a large outdoor fire pit approx. 5m away from the cabin / container - the container is lined and fully insulated.

What are ppls thoughts on using the outdoor fire - to somehow heat the cabin ??
The thinking is that if I scrounged some old 3' exhaust pipe, and placed an open end of it into / under the huge outdoor fire pit and then snaked that pipe (welded)under the ground a few inches, then came up, just under the floor of the container - back and forth a few times, before exhausting it downwind as to try and get it to draw - would this heat the container ?

Any other ideas on how we might best utilise an otherwise wasted heat source whilst we sleep ?


I'm not sure I see the point to having a big fire burning outside when you are inside anyway. Just build a small fireplace inside with a flue. Rose's dad built himself a furnace in a cut .44-gallon drum in his workshop. Because it has a fan blowing through the coals all the smoke gets directed straight out the flue.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jun 2019, 5:14 pm

trekin wrote:https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KW-12V-All-IN-1-Diesel-Air-Heater-Thermostat-For-Caravan-Motorhome-RV-Trailer-X/323709884062?hash=item4b5e9cd69e:g:lPIAAOSwZDFc0-c9
Just saying.


That looks like it should burn all the oxygen out of the room in seconds :-)
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 5:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:I'm in the middle of a cabin (Container) build at moment, one that is going to be taken to site when finished and placed onto small stumps with a 5 m verandah.

We have built a large outdoor fire pit approx. 5m away from the cabin / container - the container is lined and fully insulated.

What are ppls thoughts on using the outdoor fire - to somehow heat the cabin ??
The thinking is that if I scrounged some old 3' exhaust pipe, and placed an open end of it into / under the huge outdoor fire pit and then snaked that pipe (welded)under the ground a few inches, then came up, just under the floor of the container - back and forth a few times, before exhausting it downwind as to try and get it to draw - would this heat the container ?

Any other ideas on how we might best utilise an otherwise wasted heat source whilst we sleep ?


I'm not sure I see the point to having a big fire burning outside when you are inside anyway. Just build a small fireplace inside with a flue. Rose's dad built himself a furnace in a cut .44-gallon drum in his workshop. Because it has a fan blowing through the coals all the smoke gets directed straight out the flue.


Because it’s Too hot inside with any heater that will burn all night...
It’s only for sleeping - yes, otherwise the outdoor fire will be the central meeting hub
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 5:23 pm

trekin wrote:https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KW-12V-All-IN-1-Diesel-Air-Heater-Thermostat-For-Caravan-Motorhome-RV-Trailer-X/323709884062?hash=item4b5e9cd69e:g:lPIAAOSwZDFc0-c9
Just saying.


These scare me...
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 5:25 pm

Stix wrote:I too was thinking water circulation.

If going the heat transfer thing by air, you'd be better served by doing somehow using radiant heat from the steel pipe...(not sure if that was your intention, but better that than to have hot air pumped in, as chappo said)
And to do this you'd probable need the hot 'exhaust' from the fire running through the pipe & the pipe through the cabin...
It would work im sure, but add other risks to the heating...such as smoke inhalatiin or fire given any internal leak.
Then there are building laws that require flue pipes to be sleeved to prevent injury & fire etc...

Also, im not sure how hot the ground would get below the fire, id imagine a bed of ash on dirt/sand is a pretty good insulator...so im not sure how much heat you'd get down below the fire... :unknown:

Dont need me to come down & build the verandah...?...could do that upper deck at the same time... :thumbsup: :lol:


The roof is on, interior lined, electrical almost complete...verandah has been prebuilt, you clearly haven’t checked your mail box yet or you might be telling me to get effed lol
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Chappo » 03 Jun 2019, 5:32 pm

The wetback idea woul also be great for running a hot tub on your deck!!
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Just an idea 8-)
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 6:06 pm

Who the fug is he and why would HE be in my hot tub ?
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by CrackThump » 03 Jun 2019, 6:11 pm

outdoor firepit meeting hub.... sleeping in a decked out fireheated container... bush block....


yo Tassie.. can i come play at your place mate.? lol
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by brett1868 » 03 Jun 2019, 6:22 pm

Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide. I'm doing something similar with building a "Cabin" from a shipping container, I used a 40' high cube reefer as it's already insulated and the stainless steel interior makes it easier to clean. I'm going to use diesel heaters that run from 12v and plumb the intake / exhaust to the exterior.

DJI_0008.JPG
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https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-W-LCD-Switch-Silencer-For-Car-Trucks-Boats-Trailer-M2/132779587088?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Chappo » 03 Jun 2019, 6:24 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Who the fug is he and why would HE be in my hot tub ?


Call it a “serving suggestion only”
Feel free to photoshop your own face in there if you want mate!! :D
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Blr243 » 03 Jun 2019, 6:29 pm

Maybe google European home heating or underfloor heating. Cold European countries have many decades of experience in making their homes comfortable ........ it certainly is a great idea to make use of the outdoor fire heat source ,,,,,just a matter of thinking and working out how best to do it
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 6:44 pm

Blr243 wrote:Maybe google European home heating or underfloor heating. Cold European countries have many decades of experience in making their homes comfortable ........ it certainly is a great idea to make use of the outdoor fire heat source ,,,,,just a matter of thinking and working out how best to do it


I do have a 420amph battery / 12v solar system going on and I did consider under floor heating as per some euro's utilise BUT - as you say, it seems silly to have a smouldering fire outside that will burn all night, but then setting up another heat source only 3-5 metres away....

The brains trust will think of something...it's just a matter of how complex it might get lol.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 6:48 pm

brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide. I'm doing something similar with building a "Cabin" from a shipping container, I used a 40' high cube reefer as it's already insulated and the stainless steel interior makes it easier to clean. I'm going to use diesel heaters that run from 12v and plumb the intake / exhaust to the exterior.

DJI_0008.JPG


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-W-LCD-Switch-Silencer-For-Car-Trucks-Boats-Trailer-M2/132779587088?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


I worry about several things with diesel heaters...as you've already mentioned - CO can be an issue, the wind can do strange things sometimes...fuel is a steadfast requirement for heat and of course - ar#$holes in the middle of nowhere can and will wreck anything...how do you intend to plumb it into the skin - exhaust it ? Dont you then open the "skin" to vermin ingest ? I get over paranoid about CO since a colleague jumped into a telstra manhole and did not come out...
Edit - just googled and answered my own questions re these 12v diesel heaters...but I still somehow want to try and utilise the wood fire. Someone else has mentioned running a copper pipe inside of the exhaust but run the copper into the fire and have it filled with coolant with blow off valve for pressure - the heat from the fire will get the coolant to boiling temp, copper is a good conductor of heat, so it should resonate heat upwards over the course of the day and keep the room a few degrees warmer at night as a result....but F me - complicated to set up...
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by GQshayne » 03 Jun 2019, 8:08 pm

Hey Tassie, you ever seen a donkey hot water system???? A 44 gal drum heated by fire, with in and out water lines to run to a shower. Works very well. I have used a few over the years. You could do something similar, but run copper pipes into the cabin for the water to circulate, and radiate heat.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2019, 8:17 pm

GQshayne wrote:Hey Tassie, you ever seen a donkey hot water system???? A 44 gal drum heated by fire, with in and out water lines to run to a shower. Works very well. I have used a few over the years. You could do something similar, but run copper pipes into the cabin for the water to circulate, and radiate heat.


Yep, took the words out of my mouth. Water transfers heat far more efficiently than air. I would look around for an old water heater that they used in old hospitals/offices ( the ones beside the wall) or perhaps a truck radiator. Just a type heat exchanger.


Or why not just buy/DIY a pot belly stove
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 8:29 pm

GQshayne wrote:Hey Tassie, you ever seen a donkey hot water system???? A 44 gal drum heated by fire, with in and out water lines to run to a shower. Works very well. I have used a few over the years. You could do something similar, but run copper pipes into the cabin for the water to circulate, and radiate heat.


See - I knew the brains trust would come up with some good ideas. I'll research this one a bit further. Fank u :drinks:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2019, 8:39 pm

brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide.


Correct, low oxygen levels is also a concern. But not a huge amount of ventilation is needed to ensure safety. Just two 12" square vents placed at opposite ends of the container would be plenty. Perhaps a door vent (down low) and a window left a jar.
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 8:54 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
brett1868 wrote:Keep in mind that any type of combustion within an enclosed area you need to consider carbon monoxide.


Correct, low oxygen levels is also a concern. But not a huge amount of ventilation is needed to ensure safety. Just two 12" square vents placed at opposite ends of the container would be plenty. Perhaps a door vent (down low) and a window left a jar.


The entire cabin has been lined with VJ pine - so i'm not keen on any internal combustion at all - that and we already know that a hinged 9kg bottle made into a small wood heater is far too much heat for the little shipping container for which to sleep in...
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:23 pm

I'd put a small wood heater in and just open a window in it if it's got one if it gets hot, it's the same principle I use here in the cabin when it gets too hot I open a window and let some heat out. :D :unknown:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jun 2019, 9:29 pm

Then you've got a great big 6ft fire outside...just ticking away and burning through the night...kinda going to waste when beddy time comes...I mean if BFS was down here with me...well, who says we'd need any heating at all on those cold mountain nights.... :friends:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:37 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Then you've got a great big 6ft fire outside...just ticking away and burning through the night...kinda going to waste when beddy time comes...I mean if BFS was down here with me...well, who says we'd need any heating at all on those cold mountain nights.... :friends:


If the moneys right I'll be ya big cuddly teddy bear :D Seriously though what's wrong with ya brother, mother or sister? :D :lol: :sarcasm: :violin:

Just take some of the wood from the fire and put it in ya wood heater :D that way you aren't wasting it :D
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2019, 9:37 pm

⚠ Spooning is NOT permitted on the forum. :allegedly:
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Re: Getting the warmth of the outdoor fire - inside

Post by bigfellascott » 03 Jun 2019, 9:39 pm

Have you been getting any snow where you are TAS? a good wood heater is hard to beat on a cold night no matter what it's in.
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