First .22, What should I go with?

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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by boingk » 21 Jul 2021, 10:32 pm

Lsfan wrote:Yeah looks pretty cool. Is that a tube magazine? I wondered about calibres like that. Only good for big holes at short ranges aren’t they?


Yep, 8 round tube mag. Top up and keep on shooting.

It's fairly accurate to be honest. Not match-rifle grade but hey, it's pretty decent from what I've seen. I can hit a coke can with open sights out to 100m fairly easily. It comes with a reasonable apeture sight system and pic rail mount as well. The stock is all MLOK compatible for extra rail sections etc.

Here's a video from OzzieReviews about its slightly less-tactical-looking incarnation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vvRQhVM_E0
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Lsfan » 21 Jul 2021, 10:41 pm

Just checked it out. It’s a pretty looking thing. I suppose like he says you may put a red dot on it but wouldn’t suit a scope.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by ZaineB » 21 Jul 2021, 10:44 pm

sbd850 wrote:
MontyShooter wrote:I had a ruger american 22 and it was a pos. Granted it went back for repair a few times in the 6 weeks I had it from new, but was just cheap junk. There's daylight between ruger and tikka/lithgow etc in machining, stock quality and smooth cycling. Howa and CZ are the middle ground for me.


Yeah I'm aware that you get what you pay for, this is exactly why I went with the standard Tikka for my 6.5CM over a Howa 1500 in an MDT Chassis which would've been $1000 less. I couldn't ask for better quality and the action is super smooth as usual for Tikka. The Cerakote finish is really nice too. They're a much nicer finish than the Howa and Ruger etc.

For the. 22 I'm after something that's good enough for plinking all day without issues and won't break the bank.


all rifles are hit n miss mate, tikka doesn't guarantee the first one you get is perfect, mate had one in 6.5cm few years back with gas blowback issues, then swapped out for a Sauer that had an issue with the bolt being untimed, meanwhile my Howa and Weatherby vanguards that are made in the same factory have had absolutely 0 issues. After sales care for your kit matters more in some instances than hopped up promises, my mates lightweight tikka 260rem refuses to group like it should, meanwhile all my guns (cheaper cos get thrown around in the ute a lot) shoot clover leaf groups.

Sounds like I am bashing tikka a bit, but in reality the amount of lemons vs good ones is very low, much like most all other major brands, except for mossberg, their s**t sucks all the time. Just dont fall into the trap of thinking you need to spend a fortune to get quality, because its not always true. focus on after sales care and the strength of the dealer network, in saying that tikka has great retail support in Australia which puts it in the high value category, unlike some other just as nice but not nearly as marketed European manufacturers.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by boingk » 21 Jul 2021, 11:03 pm

Lsfan wrote:Just checked it out. It’s a pretty looking thing. I suppose like he says you may put a red dot on it but wouldn’t suit a scope.


The Tac version I put a picture of is fine for a long eye relief scope - the integral rail was a deal sealer for me. I ended up with an NCStar on mine, no issues at all. Other brands call them 'Scout' scopes or simply long eye relief.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Bello » 22 Jul 2021, 8:19 am

Hi Mate
If you want a cheap plinking 22LR, I would suggest looking at the Used guns web page. You will possibly pick up a descent second hand rifle to plink with.
I have model 2 BRN and CZ455 all good. I used to have a JW15 and it shot great. Back when i bought it, it cost me $100 for the rifle scope (Bushnell banner) and mounts.

I find, when it comes to quality, you get what you pay for.
The more expensive rifles tend to be made better, better components, materials, smother actions etc.
If it's a rifle you intend on keeping for a long time, perhaps save a little more and get the one you really want.
As for scope, I put good quality ones on mine, so i could see the bullet holes in the targets at 100 meters.

Happy shopping :thumbsup:
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by sbd850 » 22 Jul 2021, 9:26 am

Alrighty maybe I'll stretch out to a CZ 457 or the Cogswell and Harrison.

I really like the wooden stock. However if I'm going to step inti this price range, how does the accuracy line up against the Lithgow and Tikka offerings?

I've already got a Tikka and I thought it'd be nice to have some variance in brand. I like that Lithgow are Aussie but I like the design better of the CZ/C&H. From what I've researched since starting this post, the Cogswell is a CZ 455 barreled action in a slightly better stock. However I do not know the difference between the 455 and 457.

If I stick with the cheaper end, I'll go with a JW15. I'm going to have a deeper dig into the used market also.

Cheers
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by disco stu » 22 Jul 2021, 10:29 am

I've got a JW15. Trigger was worked before I got it, it's very light and crisp, no complaints there at all. Seems to shoot alright, but I've only shot it the once and was still trying ammo and getting things worked out. Was planning to shoot more these holidays and get it all sorted but lockdown put an end to that.

From all my reading, the jw15 is regarded as extremely good value and accurate. When googling about them you get 10 posts raving about them for each post saying they're crap, and most of those posts talking them down appear to be from the "you get what you pay for" crowd who think it can't be decent because it's cheap (need to buy a bmw for diving down the shops because they cost more, right?), so that means most of them haven't owned them.

I did have to smooth things out on mine even though most had been done by previous owner. Not hard at all though.

I gather the Hatsan Escort are considered just as good or even better than the Norinco, and at least your supporting Turkey rather than Chinese manufacturing. That was my plan if I hadn't found this Norinco second hand.

Hopefully some help
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by in2anity » 22 Jul 2021, 10:38 am

sbd850 wrote:Hey all,

...

Also on a side note - I want to keep on topic of what to get, however I'm also wondering how much "carry over" does putting tons of rounds through a .22 have to larger calibres?

Cheers.


I'll answer this part. Put simply - A LOT. You'll hear many-a-range-whore preach "wanna be a good centerfire shooter? shoot rimfire comps, A LOT". The 22lr is very susceptible to windage; so shooting a rimfire in say a 100m event is like shooting a centerfire at say 500m; one eye must be paying close attention to the flags. 22lr shooting is like a miniaturization minus the recoil and cost.

Besides windage, shooting accurately is all about consistency. The more you practice, the more consistent you get. As as Target Rifle, Smallbore and Service Rifle participant myself, the golden rules defined by Carlos Hathcock are extremely pertinent:

  • Body Alignment – Natural Point Of Aim
  • Firm Hand Shake Grip
  • Firm In Shoulder
  • Eye Relief – Spot Weld – No Shadow
  • Stare At Crosshairs – Target Is A Blur
  • Slow Steady Pressure On Trigger To Rear
  • Normal Respiratory Pause
  • Follow Thru

This is appropriate to people here because it applies to scoped shooting. I don’t shoot a lot of scope anymore; expanding on that from a TR perspective here’s my little checklist on my shooting mat that I constantly remind myself of when I’m down on the line;

mat.jpeg
My golden rules
mat.jpeg (132.5 KiB) Viewed 261 times
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by sbd850 » 22 Jul 2021, 12:47 pm

in2anity wrote:
sbd850 wrote:Hey all,

...

Also on a side note - I want to keep on topic of what to get, however I'm also wondering how much "carry over" does putting tons of rounds through a .22 have to larger calibres?

Cheers.


I'll answer this part. Put simply - A LOT. You'll hear many-a-range-whore preach "wanna be a good centerfire shooter? shoot rimfire comps, A LOT". The 22lr is very susceptible to windage; so shooting a rimfire in say a 100m event is like shooting a centerfire at say 500m; one eye must be paying close attention to the flags. 22lr shooting is like a miniaturization minus the recoil and cost.

Besides windage, shooting accurately is all about consistency. The more you practice, the more consistent you get. As as Target Rifle, Smallbore and Service Rifle participant myself, the golden rules defined by Carlos Hathcock are extremely pertinent:

  • Body Alignment – Natural Point Of Aim
  • Firm Hand Shake Grip
  • Firm In Shoulder
  • Eye Relief – Spot Weld – No Shadow
  • Stare At Crosshairs – Target Is A Blur
  • Slow Steady Pressure On Trigger To Rear
  • Normal Respiratory Pause
  • Follow Thru

This is appropriate to people here because it applies to scoped shooting. I don’t shoot a lot of scope anymore; expanding on that from a TR perspective here’s my little checklist on my shooting mat that I constantly remind myself of when I’m down on the line;

mat.jpeg


Thanks heaps for this, that makes a lot of sense the way you explained it with the skill carry over and windage etc. And yes the cheap ammo/little concern for burning out the barrel does allow for many more shots down range. I like to think that in a solid day out I could put 50-100 rounds through the .22 and 20 through the 6.5CM practicing out to some distance. Off topic, but I was playing with Sterlok and found that up to around 700m the Mil adjustment is virtually bang on distance -2 for the 6.5, so I'm really keen to try that out next time. I only shot out to 100 at my first shoot.

With grip I've heard conflicting things, some such as yourself say firm and others say grip it lightly to let the rifle recoil freely. I like this list though and I was making some fairly consistent .75 inch groups with a fairly firm grip on my 6.5CM.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by in2anity » 22 Jul 2021, 1:30 pm

sbd850 wrote:With grip I've heard conflicting things, some such as yourself say firm and others say grip it lightly to let the rifle recoil freely. I like this list though and I was making some fairly consistent .75 inch groups with a fairly firm grip on my 6.5CM.


Keep in mind Hathcock's list is coming from a sniper school / high-power service rifle perspective. On the contrary, competitive benchrest and F-class style implores much less physical interaction with the rifle; the shooter is basically just there to tweak the cross-hairs and actuate the extremely light trigger when the wind is right. That and make high quality ammo :lol:

But yeah, a factory rifle, off a harris style bipod will require more "driving" of the rifle, where Hathcock's list still largely applies. I guess it just depends on where you see yourself headed, whether it be Target Rifle vs F-class :drinks: P.S. Target/Service Rifle is way more fun ;) ;) ;)
Last edited by in2anity on 22 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by boingk » 22 Jul 2021, 2:33 pm

in2anity wrote:Target/Service Rifle is way more fun ;) ;) ;)


This.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by sbd850 » 22 Jul 2021, 5:33 pm

boingk wrote:
in2anity wrote:Target/Service Rifle is way more fun ;) ;) ;)


This.


Sweet, what's the main differences? I'm new to all of this
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by in2anity » 22 Jul 2021, 6:28 pm

sbd850 wrote:Sweet, what's the main differences? I'm new to all of this

Target Rifle allows a thick jacket attached to a triangulating sling, but the rifle is shot from the elbows without any rest. Service rifle is similar to TR but is shot from 3-positions and has stricter limits on gear and sights, but also shorter distances and slightly larger targets.
F-class rifle is attached to a heavy front rest, with a rear support bag also. The catch is, targets are basically half the size. F-class focuses more on ultra precision - a lot harder than it looks.
Both disciplines are great and will be fulfilling for you.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Murph77 » 23 Jul 2021, 10:14 am

I went with a webley & scott .22lr and a meopta optica 6 2.5-15x44 for a scope. I originaly mounted a niko sterling 4-12 but with no paralax adjustment it was useless below 100m. So I would stretch the budget for a good scope now before you buy a cheap one then buy a replacement after shooting with the cheap scope and hating it!

My webley scott was cheap but seems to be doing the job for a good plinking/cheap rifle to practice with. I only got it after shooting my .243 was getting expensive for banging at targets!
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by sbd850 » 23 Jul 2021, 2:34 pm

in2anity wrote:
sbd850 wrote:With grip I've heard conflicting things, some such as yourself say firm and others say grip it lightly to let the rifle recoil freely. I like this list though and I was making some fairly consistent .75 inch groups with a fairly firm grip on my 6.5CM.


Keep in mind Hathcock's list is coming from a sniper school / high-power service rifle perspective. On the contrary, competitive benchrest and F-class style implores much less physical interaction with the rifle; the shooter is basically just there to tweak the cross-hairs and actuate the extremely light trigger when the wind is right. That and make high quality ammo :lol:

But yeah, a factory rifle, off a harris style bipod will require more "driving" of the rifle, where Hathcock's list still largely applies. I guess it just depends on where you see yourself headed, whether it be Target Rifle vs F-class :drinks: P.S. Target/Service Rifle is way more fun ;) ;) ;)


Alrighty cool, I'll stick with a more firm grip then.

I found plenty of second hand Brno's in the 700-800 range so I'll either go with one of those or a newer Cogswell and Harrison I think.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 23 Jul 2021, 2:43 pm

sbd850,
If you're going for a CZ (Brno), be aware that the ejector blade can push you cleaning rod against the mouth of the chamber: maybe the leade and rifling too. This might not apply to all models but it does to my 455 and to my late, lamented 452.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Lsfan » 23 Jul 2021, 7:15 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:sbd850,
If you're going for a CZ (Brno), be aware that the ejector blade can push you cleaning rod against the mouth of the chamber: maybe the leade and rifling too. This might not apply to all models but it does to my 455 and to my late, lamented 452.

Yes I have found that too. Had trouble with a segmented rod, then bought a 1 piece stainless and found scratches on it. Now bought a snake but haven’t used it yet.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 24 Jul 2021, 9:10 am

Lsfan wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:sbd850,
If you're going for a CZ (Brno), be aware that the ejector blade can push you cleaning rod against the mouth of the chamber: maybe the leade and rifling too. This might not apply to all models but it does to my 455 and to my late, lamented 452.

Yes I have found that too. Had trouble with a segmented rod, then bought a 1 piece stainless and found scratches on it. Now bought a snake but haven’t used it yet.


I don't use a bore-guide but some like them. To my way of thinking, the guide must bend the rod to be effective. Not sure if there are long term consequences for the rod.
Others use a 0.17 or 0.20 calibre rod with cleaning tools to match the 0.22 calibre of the rifle.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Humperdinkel » 24 Jul 2021, 3:44 pm

Own, use & recommend a Webley & Scott Xocet !! Bloody brilliant little rifle & at $545 for a scoped package, it's impossible hard to beat.. So much god damn fun !! :D
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Tilb004 » 24 Jul 2021, 10:50 pm

Dont buy a marlin xt 22 , piles of rubbish.
I am awaiting my new tikka 22lr .
I have a tikka centerfire and is great , expecting the same from the 22 .

Good luck :thumbsup:
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by sbd850 » 25 Jul 2021, 1:16 pm

Tilb004 wrote:Dont buy a marlin xt 22 , piles of rubbish.
I am awaiting my new tikka 22lr .
I have a tikka centerfire and is great , expecting the same from the 22 .

Good luck :thumbsup:


Yep my 6.5cm is the 2021 super varmint, love it.

The t1x does seem super nice, it's just a little more than I want to spend. The super cost me 3.5k scoped.
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by Lsfan » 25 Jul 2021, 1:28 pm

Tilb004 wrote:Dont buy a marlin xt 22 , piles of rubbish.
I am awaiting my new tikka 22lr .
I have a tikka centerfire and is great , expecting the same from the 22 .

Good luck :thumbsup:

What’s wrong with the Marlins? I was thinking of the marlin xt17 because it’s on sale for $395. Is a tikka justified being 2.5 times the price of the marlin?
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Re: First .22, What should I go with?

Post by FNQ » 26 Jul 2021, 6:36 pm

+1 for the JW15

I’ve owned a lot of .22s and by far the best bang for the buck is the JW15
Gamo CF.177, Savage A.22ss, JW15A, Savage 42 .22/.410, Stirlng .22MAG, Howa .223 stainless, Remington 770 .308, Savage AXIS .30-06, #4 MK1 .303, #4 MK2 .303,#5 .303, Akkar Churchill O/U 12ga, Chippa lever 12ga.

GSM 1911 .22, Glock 17A 9mm, Glock 34 9mm
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