SK ammo question

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Re: SK ammo question

Post by deye243 » 07 Sep 2021, 5:38 pm

If they came out of ground or dirt don't expect that kind of performance on a rabbit or even a fox completely different type of resistance on the projectile
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2021, 6:10 pm

deye243 wrote:If they came out of ground or dirt don't expect that kind of performance on a rabbit or even a fox completely different type of resistance on the projectile


Yes, that's my view also. Needs to be tested on flesh and bone.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by MtnMan » 07 Sep 2021, 6:11 pm

Yeah it was just the dirt bank behind the targets. I wouldn't expect them to mushroom like that unless bone was hit
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by MtnMan » 09 Sep 2021, 8:34 pm

I picked up a packet of SK Pistol Match Special today and the results were crazy to say the least.

I turned 25 into HP's and gave them a try and proceeded to spray the target like patterning a shotgun!!

the 2 groups on the left were the first shots with this ammo formed into HP's.
After that shocking incident I thought I'd better try them unaltered and the difference shocked me. Of the 2 groups on the right the top one is with round nose as they come and the bottom group is with the DIY HP's.
IMG_8254.JPG
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To confirm, I shot another group with stock ammo.

IMG_8255.JPG
IMG_8255.JPG (9.65 KiB) Viewed 397 times


Conclusions were-
1- It shoots good as is but it's not a hollow point for hunting like I want.
2- DO NOT DIY HP!!!
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 09 Sep 2021, 8:39 pm

MtnMan wrote:I picked up a packet of SK Pistol Match Special today and the results were crazy to say the least.

I turned 25 into HP's and gave them a try and proceeded to spray the target like patterning a shotgun!!

the 2 groups on the left were the first shots with this ammo formed into HP's.
After that shocking incident I thought I'd better try them unaltered and the difference shocked me. Of the 2 groups on the right the top one is with round nose as they come and the bottom group is with the DIY HP's.
IMG_8254.JPG


To confirm, I shot another group with stock ammo.

IMG_8255.JPG


Conclusions were-
1- It shoots good as is but it's not a hollow point for hunting like I want.
2- DO NOT DIY HP!!!


I really wouldn't worry about needing a hollow-point, these are soft lead bullets, use whatever ammo lets you put the bullet where it needs to be and it will kill just fine. I would bet that more game has been taken over the last century with the cheapest round-nose ammo that could be found on the shelf than with any of our modern stuff.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Sep 2021, 4:26 pm

Blade, I really think they need hollow points to work well. Particularly if they are sub-sonic.

Wet news paper was something people used to use years ago.
How do you make ballistic gel? Anyone got the recipe?
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 13 Sep 2021, 4:47 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Blade, I really think they need hollow points to work well. Particularly if they are sub-sonic.

Wet news paper was something people used to use years ago.
How do you make ballistic gel? Anyone got the recipe?


I disagree :-)
Lots and lots of people put food on their tables for many decades with the cheapest round-nose ammo available at the time, and still do so today.
Put a round-nose bullet, even subsonic, into the right part of your target and it will drop on the spot as if struck by lightning.

I've looked at ballistic gels, and they are fairly easy to make, though not real cheap due to the volume of gelatin required. It's basically gelatin dissolved in water, then allowed to set in the fridge.
But being animal-based, it goes off fairly quickly, even if kept refrigerated. You can a variety of chemicals to retard degradation, but not prevent it entirely, and these chemicals increase the cost significantly.
Clear Ballistics do a synthetic gelatine which will last essentially forever, without refrigeration. It's significantly more expensive, but in the long-term works out cheaper.
I just don't consider gel to be a true indication of how a bullet will behave in flesh and bone, it's more a means for testing bullets in a consistent medium for comparison with others than it is an analogue for flesh.

This is something I put together some time ago to post here but decided it wasn't relevant. It's not finalised for publication, just some basic notes I started putting together.

Been crook in bed all week, so I spent a lot of time perusing stuff online :-)
I finally got some 190gn Sub-X .308" bullets to play with last week, designed to function down to 900fps in 300BLK.

It also lead me to look into clear ballistic gelatine, or more precisely, gel that doesn't go mouldy so quickly.
I found some experiments using a small amount of 5% Hydrogen Peroxide added to the gel. It seems to effectively defeat the mould growth, without significantly altering the ballistic properties of the gel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBVi-UTTlM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzSiSJPL6as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j6nT_scSx4
This bloke's home recipe is:
9000ml water
3000ml gelatine powder
600ml 5% hydrogen peroxide
240ml propionic acid
But this only makes 12.84 litres, doubling these numbers would make a test block about 500mm long by 230mm square.
The "standard" commercial test block is generally 400mm by 150mm square, but bullets often pass right through it, or veer out a side, sometimes requiring several shots to recover a bullet. It's roughly 9.3 litres volume and weighs about 8.2kg.

A kilogram of gelatine is about A$40-80 delivered.
A gel test block 500mm long by 250mm square is 31 litres volume.

https://www.clearballistics.com/shop/10 ... -20x10x10/
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Sep 2021, 4:56 pm

".
Put a round-nose bullet, even subsonic, into the right part of your target and it will drop on the spot as if struck by lightning"

Not chest shooting rabbits. They have a habit of crawling off in my experience. Naturally head shots they drop.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Sep 2021, 5:47 pm

Here is a link to a set of tests carried out on 22lr. A good variety of ammo was used.

Note that only the hollow points mushroom. The solid RN Subbies do not, distance was 10 yards.


https://www.australianhunting.net/index ... msg2692853
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 13 Sep 2021, 6:34 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here is a link to a set of tests carried out on 22lr. A good variety of ammo was used.

Note that only the hollow points mushroom. The solid RN Subbies do not, distance was 10 yards.


https://www.australianhunting.net/index ... msg2692853


The bullet doesn't need to mushroom to kill small game.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by MtnMan » 15 Sep 2021, 7:10 am

There's been an interesting development.
After forming some WIN super suppressed into HP's they shot like crap too. I knew then that something was up and went looking for the problem. Turns out the die was full of crud from the batch of WIN high velocity power points I reformed. These have a crusty coating on the bullet and the die had a substantial amount jammed in there and it was causing the rounds to be shortened considerably as the crud was incompressible.
After cleaning the die the WIN super suppressed went back to normal accuracy. Then it dawned on me that the SK pistol match special HP ammo that was shooting like crap was formed in the dirty die. So I tried another little batch in the clean die and BOOM! problem solved.

here's the only 5 shot group with it after the die clean. Amazing difference. This may well be what I'll settle on along with the WIN super suppressed for subsonic HP ammo.

IMG_8256.JPG
IMG_8256.JPG (12.09 KiB) Viewed 276 times
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by MtnMan » 15 Sep 2021, 7:19 am

As for the LRN vs HP topic, I like HP's for hunting small game. A LRN or HP in the central nervous system are equally effective but I gravitate towards HP I like the terminal performance better for general hunting conditions where head shots are not always possible and anything but quick knockdown results in underground mutton being underground.
The ricochet risk is perhaps less with HP's too IMO. This is important to me as some places I hunt are very rocky and there is stock around the place to be mindful of.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Sep 2021, 7:59 am

MtnMan wrote:As for the LRN vs HP topic, I like HP's for hunting small game. A LRN or HP in the central nervous system are equally effective but I gravitate towards HP I like the terminal performance better for general hunting conditions where head shots are not always possible and anything but quick knockdown results in underground mutton being underground.
The ricochet risk is perhaps less with HP's too IMO. This is important to me as some places I hunt are very rocky and there is stock around the place to be mindful of.


That's why they were developed. Other wise why would you bother.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Sep 2021, 8:13 am

MtnMan wrote:I got good value out of this tow ball! I used the ball a few years ago to make a DIY window mount spotlight and now I've used the remaining shank to make a .22lr reprofiling die. 8-)

I honed the plunger to .2245" then honed the bore of the die until the plunger would clear it so it should be very close to .225".

IMG_8244.JPG

IMG_8247.JPG


The shell holder is simply 2 washers with appropriately sized slots tack welded on top of a piece of steel I turned to duplicate the shellholders that fit my RCBS press.

Before and after-
Back row left to right-
45gr Win super suppressed solid, 40gr Win super speed solid,40gr SK flat nose basic solid, 40gr CCI quiet solid.

Middle row, L to R-
Eley 38gr subsonic HP, Win power point 40gr HV HP, Remington 40gr HP subsonic.

Front-
CCI subsonic 40gr segmented HP. Ready for detonation!!!! :twisted:

IMG_8249.JPG


I'm impressed. I have the same issue. My M2 brno likes RWS Club RN solids. Got a feeling there was something available years ago.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Phil Lawlor » 15 Sep 2021, 7:24 pm

The latest discussion IMO is well of topic. I thought the OP was talking about SK ammunition ????
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by safeshot » 15 Sep 2021, 7:51 pm

Re SK. I use the red SK and at the range they are referred to as Red Devils. The yellow box is Yellow Devils. I have a Lithgow 101 and I have settled on the RD and I weigh each round and put them into little containers of their weight. Say 51.4 grains eg. I have improved my groups doing this. Others with Lithgow 101 rifles swear by the YD but .22's as we all know arwe fussy little feeders.
One thing remains true "You get what you pay for" so elcheapo ammo will never shoot as well as much denero.
Best wishes fellow shooters from Albany WA
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Phil Lawlor » 16 Sep 2021, 8:00 am

safeshot wrote:Re SK. I use the red SK and at the range they are referred to as Red Devils. The yellow box is Yellow Devils. I have a Lithgow 101 and I have settled on the RD and I weigh each round and put them into little containers of their weight. Say 51.4 grains eg. I have improved my groups doing this. Others with Lithgow 101 rifles swear by the YD but .22's as we all know arwe fussy little feeders.
One thing remains true "You get what you pay for" so elcheapo ammo will never shoot as well as much denero.
Best wishes fellow shooters from Albany WA


Good topic information. We also only use SK Match (red box) or SK Long Range (yellow box). From our research and development trialling various brands, SK group the best in our Ruger Precision 22LR rifles. Although there are none in stock in the 3 shops up here in Townsville. We have a little stash put away until the next shipment arrives. Have a great day.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 16 Sep 2021, 1:03 pm

Phil Lawlor wrote:The latest discussion IMO is well of topic. I thought the OP was talking about SK ammunition ????


It's the OP's thread, he can take it on whatever journey he wishes to :-)
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Phil Lawlor » 16 Sep 2021, 6:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Phil Lawlor wrote:The latest discussion IMO is well of topic. I thought the OP was talking about SK ammunition ????


It's the OP's thread, he can take it on whatever journey he wishes to :-)


Okay, If that is your point and message to others it is what it is I suppose. My point is when I am researching a topic I prefer that discussion points stay on topic. If that has offended anyone that was not my intent. Have a lovely day.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 16 Sep 2021, 6:19 pm

Phil Lawlor wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Phil Lawlor wrote:The latest discussion IMO is well of topic. I thought the OP was talking about SK ammunition ????


It's the OP's thread, he can take it on whatever journey he wishes to :-)


Okay, If that is your point and message to others it is what it is I suppose. My point is when I am researching a topic I prefer that discussion points stay on topic. If that has offended anyone that was not my intent. Have a lovely day.


No offence at all, derailing somebody else's topic is frowned upon though.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by deye243 » 17 Sep 2021, 3:55 am

Hi on the other hand love when a certain topic goes off rails usually find out a lot of very useful information that would normally not be discussed.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Insert random name » 17 Sep 2021, 5:17 am

I cant fault SK ammo for my LA101. The long-range goes well at 200mtrs and the rifle match is great out to 100mtrs. Tried a big range of ammo in it, I cannot see much difference in the more expensive stuff, probably at my skill limit but I am happy with it.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Lsfan » 17 Sep 2021, 8:55 am

deye243 wrote:Hi on the other hand love when a certain topic goes off rails usually find out a lot of very useful information that would normally not be discussed.

I know, who wants a covid jab anyway? :lol:
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by bladeracer » 17 Sep 2021, 12:29 pm

Phil Lawlor wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Phil Lawlor wrote:The latest discussion IMO is well of topic. I thought the OP was talking about SK ammunition ????


It's the OP's thread, he can take it on whatever journey he wishes to :-)


Okay, If that is your point and message to others it is what it is I suppose. My point is when I am researching a topic I prefer that discussion points stay on topic. If that has offended anyone that was not my intent. Have a lovely day.


It's worth noting that when you search for "SK ammo", you aren't searching thread titles, you're searching content, mentions of "SK ammo", regardless of what thread they're mentioned in. The thread title doesn't matter at all.

I doubt I've ever used "SK" in a header, but whatever I've said about their ammo still comes up in searches.
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Re: SK ammo question

Post by MtnMan » 24 Sep 2021, 6:43 am

I forgot that the last group I showed here with the SK pistol match special HP's wasn't weight sorted. So i weight sorted the last dozen or so I had left in the box and shot another group. Weight sorting into matched batches certainly tightens up the groups.

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Re: SK ammo question

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Sep 2021, 5:38 pm

Well, bloody covid lockdown and bored ******. So, I have a heap of cheap Winchester bushman 22lr ammo. Not real flash in my Bruno either.

So I sorted about 200 49.7gr +- 0.1 gr.
This resulted in about 20% being side lined for the grand kids.

If I ever get out of lockdown and a chance to shoot a couple of groups with them I'll report back. :unknown:
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