POI moving horizontally or user error?

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POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by bradley33 » 12 Oct 2022, 5:06 pm

I put a redfield 3-9x on new to me ruger 96/22 and tested some CCI velocitors.

Got good groups of 40mm and 20mm at 45m and zeroed the gun as this will do my for shooting.

Took it to 80m just to see bullet drop and the group was now almost a foot to the right and down and about a foot wide. Down i expected but not the blow out to the right.

Decided to take it back to 65m. Group was only 2" to the right.

Brought it back into 45m to recheck and now the whole group was very tight but 1.5" to the left!. :wtf:

There was a crosswind to the right but I was trying to time gusts. I was changing position, close groups (45m) were all fired from a caldwell rock rest. The further ranges were just shot over a sandbag on the utes bonnet.

Wind? scope issues? Out of aligntment to the barrel? Or this is normal get over it. :)
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by Mattraff » 13 Oct 2022, 2:36 am

Could be any number of things. A small amount of wind really knocks the little 22 about. Perhaps the ammo is not what the riffle likes and it will perform better with something else. I only ever use subsonic or standard velocity rounds in my 22's. I would start by checking over all the action and scope screws and then trying some different ammo as CCI Velocitors have never been known for their accuracy.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by No1_49er » 13 Oct 2022, 4:40 am

Couple of things to consider here.

1) Are you using an adjustable parallax scope? If so, do you know with absolute certainty how to adjust it?
2) Velocitor (High Velocity) ammunition is not going to do you any favours for gaining a good group size beyond about 50 metres. Try some other ammo - dare I say it, some Eley Match or something similar. Known good performers at 100 metres.
Them come back and tell us you still can't shoot a group.

ALL rifle / ammo combinations shoot differently. My Anschutz, with its selected batch of Eley ammo will shoot around 1/2 inch at 100 metres, off a bench-rest.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by straightshooter » 13 Oct 2022, 6:26 am

Yes the error would tend to be related to parallax both due to the scope and the operator.
The 3-9x scope is likely a centerfire scope without parallax adjustment and these are usually factory set for 150 yards.
However I would be inclined to suspect that the majority of the error will be due to variation in the way the stock is gripped and head position.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2022, 11:11 am

Try CCI Standard Velocity for longer ranges, some high-velocity stuff doesn't transition back to subsonic very well. Velocitor hasn't been bad for me in my Rugers, but it's not precision ammo.

Wind as mentioned really moves the .22LR bullet around, even wind that you can't feel on your face will affect it.

But I think most of this is down to the scope. I have a Redfield Revolution 3-9x40 that won't retain zero. I sent it back once as it wouldn't let me zero at all initially, wouldn't adjust closer than about three-inches of centre at 25m. Now, I can put it on a rifle, zero it, and shoot some decent groups with it, but it just won't hold that zero next time I get it out. Very nice glass though.

Can you borrow a scope from a mate to try on your rifle, ideally something with parallax adjustment back to 10m. If you're anywhere near me (Central Gippsland) you can try one of my Bushnells.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by Biscuits » 13 Oct 2022, 11:40 am

Either user error with inconsistent head/gun position or fault with scope/mount.

Not wind. Wind will not move a 22LR bullet that much over that short a distance.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by bradley33 » 13 Oct 2022, 6:20 pm

Thanks guys. As mentioned the groups to 65m were good, 20mm group at 45m best ammo I tried. But the POI jumping to either side of the bull depending on range has me guessing. Too many variables I reckon, will start swapping things around and eliminating things to work it out.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by in2anity » 13 Oct 2022, 9:29 pm

Yes it was the wind. Shooting 22lr match ammo in a perpendicular 30km/h moderate breeze will give you say a 10” windage by 100m, but only 4” at 65m, she runs out of steam quickly... When you feel the gust on your face, or lull on your face, it could be already too late to make a presumption about wind... Ideally you should be watching an upstream flag halfway down the course, so by the time you come back onto the sight and break, the observed wind will be just crossing the flight path. Alternatively, set your spotter on the mirage in an upstream spot and watch the pattern closely for any change, then come onto the sight and break. A waterline group is actually a good thing - shows the gun is probably accurate and only being affected by the wind.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by bradley33 » 14 Oct 2022, 2:22 pm

Thanks inanity. These were velocitors at 1410fps average chronographed same day, fair bit faster than match ammo, but you might be right.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Oct 2022, 2:51 pm

bradley33 wrote:Thanks inanity. These were velocitors at 1410fps average chronographed same day, fair bit faster than match ammo, but you might be right.


For long range you need accuracy, not velocity. A 1200fps hollow-point in the bum won't kill as cleanly as a subsonic round-nose through the brain will.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by bradley33 » 14 Oct 2022, 7:30 pm

yeah probably dont need long range, 45-60m is where I am at mostly. The velocitors group under an inch at 50 yards which is better than most ammo I have tried in the gun. I was like you beauty! then the rest of the day went to crap. Will check everything suggested, shooting position, wind, change scopes in that order.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by Shootermick » 22 Jan 2023, 7:26 pm

Assuming you’ve worked out your sighting issue. How do you like the 96/22 otherwise?
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by deye243 » 22 Jan 2023, 7:56 pm

I would be surprised if you get an answer not saying you won't I'm just saying I would be surprised
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by animalpest » 22 Jan 2023, 11:14 pm

I tested a roo shooter and he was shooting poorly. His dad shot great groups with the same rifle.
After the third group I noticed he had the barrel sitting on the rest.

Maybe you have done something different between the two different ranges. Change of rest, grip, or trigger pull will do it.
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by northdude » 23 Jan 2023, 1:52 pm

Canting the rifle?
22 hornets and most things 6.5
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Re: POI moving horizontally or user error?

Post by JohnV » 27 Jan 2023, 4:41 pm

Because you just fitted the scope I would say the scope may be in a bind and if you change power settings as you change ranges the cross hair will wander around . Put the gun in a clamp with padding and focus the scope on a close target . Gently crank the power up and down and see if the cross hair moves around with power changes . Another easier option is to install a shot saver and do the same as you observe the cross hair on the grid . If the cross hair stays in the same spot through all power changes then the mount should be ok . Also when you change shooting range move the target in or out from the gun , don't move the gun once you have it set up . There is many small things that could be affecting the consistency .
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