Vapour Trails Anyone?

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Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 10:18 am

I have never witnessed this phenomenon, with either rim or centrefire, has anyone here seen this in the field?

The shooter in the video is clearly getting it from .22lr

0CD6E97C-801B-4892-9552-795D46A852B1.jpeg
0CD6E97C-801B-4892-9552-795D46A852B1.jpeg (437.95 KiB) Viewed 2837 times



https://youtu.be/bDxrUj_4Gj4?si=rqZAO5kpO_GN_ru6
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by on_one_wheel » 15 Jan 2024, 10:22 am

Never seen that before
The government must be tampering with our ammunition, dam mind controlling chem trails.

It's interesting to see that corkscrew flight path though
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by bigpete » 15 Jan 2024, 10:35 am

Yes
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 11:00 am

on_one_wheel wrote:Never seen that before
The government must be tampering with our ammunition, dam mind controlling chem trails.

It's interesting to see that corkscrew flight path though


I saw a discussion on another site, where everything from oil on SK match rounds, to atmospheric conditions, and overspun pills coming apart in flight were suggested.

Unfortunately, none of those pushing atmospherics as the reason they've seen them mentioned what those conditions were.
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by in2anity » 15 Jan 2024, 11:35 am

I went through a phase of capturing vapor trails. It's novel, but audiences tire of it quickly. https://youtu.be/fKNpA4xASBA

Slow windspeed is required, no more that 15km/h (less is better). High humidity leaves the biggest "wake" through the air.

In OP video, pretty sure air temperature must be quite cold with high humidity, and about 15km/h full value from what I can tell. The steam looks to be from the temperature difference just as the hot pill leaves the barrel.
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by straightshooter » 15 Jan 2024, 12:13 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Never seen that before
The government must be tampering with our ammunition, dam mind controlling chem trails.

It's interesting to see that corkscrew flight path though

Must be due to the corkscrew fluting on the barrel !
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by niteowl » 15 Jan 2024, 1:27 pm

.22.LR ??????
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 1:48 pm

niteowl wrote:.22.LR ??????


From the short bolt throw and tiny brass, 22lr indeed.
Must be lobbing them way out there from the flight time before you hear the gong
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 1:53 pm

in2anity wrote:I went through a phase of capturing vapor trails. It's novel, but audiences tire of it quickly. https://youtu.be/fKNpA4xASBA

Slow windspeed is required, no more that 15km/h (less is better). High humidity leaves the biggest "wake" through the air.

In OP video, pretty sure air temperature must be quite cold with high humidity, and about 15km/h full value from what I can tell. The steam looks to be from the temperature difference just as the hot pill leaves the barrel.


Slap me down if I'm wrong here, but I think we're talking about 2 different things.

From your video link, it looks like supersonic shockwave rather than "vapour", like Elmer's spooky good long shots on raaabbits where you see the schockwave as bugs bunny gets the good news
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by niteowl » 15 Jan 2024, 4:21 pm

Have a look at his ammo box !
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 4:41 pm

niteowl wrote:Have a look at his ammo box !


Have a look at the video
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by niteowl » 15 Jan 2024, 7:26 pm

Yeh OK. Nothing to do with the image posted ??
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 7:44 pm

niteowl wrote:Yeh OK. Nothing to do with the image posted ??


Sorry, that's my fault for not making it clearer, the picture was part of the same story, I forgot to make it clear that that was another example of the phenomenon with a centrefire
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by straightshooter » 15 Jan 2024, 7:46 pm

Niteowl
Good observation on both counts.
Chances are that the shooter in the picture is using tracer projectiles.
However I still have trouble abandoning the thought that the corkscrew chemtrail is due to the corkscrew fluting on the barrel.
Although if I were to lose my jester's cap I might be able to offer a sound physics based explanation for the corkscrew chemtrail. But not tonight.
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 15 Jan 2024, 8:09 pm

straightshooter wrote:Niteowl
Good observation on both counts.
Chances are that the shooter in the picture is using tracer projectiles.
However I still have trouble abandoning the thought that the corkscrew chemtrail is due to the corkscrew fluting on the barrel.
Although if I were to lose my jester's cap I might be able to offer a sound physics based explanation for the corkscrew chemtrail. But not tonight.


Wrong


Again

https://youtu.be/jRzvQ-3TukQ?si=3ircU6FmVIaQjwgh
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Jan 2024, 8:40 pm

contrail created from vortices
Most likely high humidity and very cold weather
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by straightshooter » 16 Jan 2024, 6:59 am

Lazarus wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Niteowl
Good observation on both counts.
Chances are that the shooter in the picture is using tracer projectiles.
However I still have trouble abandoning the thought that the corkscrew chemtrail is due to the corkscrew fluting on the barrel.
Although if I were to lose my jester's cap I might be able to offer a sound physics based explanation for the corkscrew chemtrail. But not tonight.


Wrong


Again

https://youtu.be/jRzvQ-3TukQ?si=3ircU6FmVIaQjwgh

I admit my comment referred to the picture and was a little flippant but you need something more substantial in your knowledge and experience arsenal than regurgitated bare youtube clips, devoid of any personal input as evidence of any understanding of their content, to assert somebody is wrong.
By the look of things you have never shot a tracer projectile nor personally experienced any of the phenomena being discussed so don't assume others commenting in the discussion have similar limitations.
Just how much breadth of shooting experience do you actually have?

If it helps with your self esteem then you can purport to have WON this discussion as well.
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 16 Jan 2024, 8:15 am

Oldbloke wrote:contrail created from vortices
Most likely high humidity and very cold weather


Oh, good onya OB, you stole my bloody thunder :lol:

It's the same effect on wingtip contrails.
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Jan 2024, 8:21 am

Lazarus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:contrail created from vortices
Most likely high humidity and very cold weather


Oh, good onya OB, you stole my bloody thunder :lol:

It's the same effect on wingtip contrails.


Yep. Ive tried to tell you in the past, I'm a fkn rocket scientist. :allegedly: :lol:
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 16 Jan 2024, 8:21 am

straightshooter wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Niteowl
Good observation on both counts.
Chances are that the shooter in the picture is using tracer projectiles.
However I still have trouble abandoning the thought that the corkscrew chemtrail is due to the corkscrew fluting on the barrel.
Although if I were to lose my jester's cap I might be able to offer a sound physics based explanation for the corkscrew chemtrail. But not tonight.


Wrong


Again

https://youtu.be/jRzvQ-3TukQ?si=3ircU6FmVIaQjwgh

I admit my comment referred to the picture and was a little flippant but you need something more substantial in your knowledge and experience arsenal than regurgitated bare youtube clips, devoid of any personal input as evidence of any understanding of their content, to assert somebody is wrong.
By the look of things you have never shot a tracer projectile nor personally experienced any of the phenomena being discussed so don't assume others commenting in the discussion have similar limitations.
Just how much breadth of shooting experience do you actually have?

If it helps with your self esteem then you can purport to have WON this discussion as well.


Mate you're on a " can't get anything right" roll, aren't you :lol:

I hosed a fukctonne of tracers out of my pig in the 1970s sonny, I know what they look like.

As to not having experienced the phenomenon of vapour trails from bullets why in your eminent opinion, do you think I asked the original question?

How do you fit all that wrong into one head?
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Peterwho » 16 Jan 2024, 9:04 pm

I have seen “trails” in Armidale in the late 70s possibly early 80s when a member of the UNE rifle club. It was with centrefire though not rimfire - 308w to be precise. More than once but nothing like every time. There were days on the range when it was f***ing cold and maybe that’s when they appeared. Can’t remember. What amazed me then and still now the “trail” was corkscrew like it was as the projectile went towards the target. I’m guessing now but I think this was a 900m range at the time. Peter
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by deye243 » 16 Jan 2024, 9:48 pm

You will struggle to see it but this is one of my trails in 223 at 500y
https://youtube.com/shorts/jcqKiUJnysM? ... hSQPz2GWkA
Starts at about 10 o'clock
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by straightshooter » 17 Jan 2024, 6:39 am

Lazarus wrote:
Mate you're on a " can't get anything right" roll, aren't you :lol:

I hosed a fukctonne of tracers out of my pig in the 1970s sonny, I know what they look like.

As to not having experienced the phenomenon of vapour trails from bullets why in your eminent opinion, do you think I asked the original question?

How do you fit all that wrong into one head?


Lamest trash talk I have ever had hurled at me.
Did you compose it yourself or did you get it from a youtube like most of your other material?
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by straightshooter » 17 Jan 2024, 7:18 am

Peterwho and deye243
They are not vapour trails.
Believe it or not Lazarus got it right earlier in the thread when he explained it was due to the shockwave of the supersonic projectile.
That shockwave induces a moving transient localised change in the refractive index of the air and that is what one sees through an appropriately set up telescope or video camera. It is not the same as but at the same time not unlike the refractive changes in the air that underlie mirage.
Anybody with a long association with fullbore shooting will be very familiar with watching the shockwave to help a shooter get on target.
Unfortunately atmospheric conditions and the position of the sun have to be just right to see the shockwave and that's not always the case.
The corkscrew Peterwho refers to is not so. It is a composite ballistic arc describing the projectile's path due to drop due to gravity and drift due to wind and a couple of other phenomena we needn't bother with.
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by in2anity » 17 Jan 2024, 8:25 am

deye243 wrote:You will struggle to see it but this is one of my trails in 223 at 500y
https://youtube.com/shorts/jcqKiUJnysM? ... hSQPz2GWkA
Starts at about 10 o'clock

Good one deye! Good shootin too! :drinks: the Bergers are better...
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Peterwho » 17 Jan 2024, 9:07 pm

straightshooter wrote:Peterwho and deye243
They are not vapour trails.
Believe it or not Lazarus got it right earlier in the thread when he explained it was due to the shockwave of the supersonic projectile.
That shockwave induces a moving transient localised change in the refractive index of the air and that is what one sees through an appropriately set up telescope or video camera. It is not the same as but at the same time not unlike the refractive changes in the air that underlie mirage.
Anybody with a long association with fullbore shooting will be very familiar with watching the shockwave to help a shooter get on target.
Unfortunately atmospheric conditions and the position of the sun have to be just right to see the shockwave and that's not always the case.
The corkscrew Peterwho refers to is not so. It is a composite ballistic arc describing the projectile's path due to drop due to gravity and drift due to wind and a couple of other phenomena we needn't bother with.



Straight shooter, that is a very informative and useful post. Thank you. P
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Lazarus » 18 Jan 2024, 7:09 am

straightshooter wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Mate you're on a " can't get anything right" roll, aren't you :lol:

I hosed a fukctonne of tracers out of my pig in the 1970s sonny, I know what they look like.

As to not having experienced the phenomenon of vapour trails from bullets why in your eminent opinion, do you think I asked the original question?

How do you fit all that wrong into one head?


Lamest trash talk I have ever had hurled at me.
Did you compose it yourself or did you get it from a youtube like most of your other material?


Just a suggestion, but instead of getting all girly when someone calls you on your preternatural talent for being wrong about everything, why not, just once, try to get your facts straight first?
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by Border_Bloke » 31 Jan 2024, 2:32 pm

In the 1980's when i was shooting fullbore I knew a guy who would rub lube on his FMJ 7.62 bullets as he chambered them to get that vapour trail "tracer" effect and see where his rounds were landing.

Some blokes considered it cheating at the time...
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Re: Vapour Trails Anyone?

Post by gunderson » 31 Jan 2024, 2:39 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Never seen that before
The government must be tampering with our ammunition, dam mind controlling chem trails.

It's interesting to see that corkscrew flight path though



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