New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

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New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 12 Jun 2018, 9:43 pm

As the title suggests, I'm looking for a new .22lr, I'm wanting a heavy barrel and really don't know what to go with. What's the quality and accuracy difference between the CZ 452 Varmint and the CZ 455 Varmint? I thought I wanted the 452 but finding a Varmint at a decent price or even at all is proving hard, so is the 452 really superior to the 455? and if so by how much? and then to look at the Lithgow LA101, what are they like? Compared to the CZ's what are they like? Also is there any aftermarket stocks available for the Lithgow, or much aftermarket stuff at all for them as there is a bunch for the CZ's?
So what do you guys think?
thanks
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by JimTom » 12 Jun 2018, 9:58 pm

I had a Brno Mod 2 and now have a Lithgow LA101 in .22LR and both were / are good performers.
The Lithgow is a relatively new purchase and like you I was looking at CZ vs Lithgow when I purchased it. I really don’t think you would go wrong with any that you’ve mentioned however I chose the Lithgow because it was Aussie made and was a good performer.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 12 Jun 2018, 10:03 pm

The cz is likely cheaper than lithgow. 452 is the older Model than 455, apparently discontinued but they still make them. All will be very good. Why a varmint, you hunting bunnies? 22lr barrels don't really warm up, and don't see the point of too heavy a 22lr even if it's a target only... but I am no expert (just a noob)
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 12 Jun 2018, 10:16 pm

Ziad wrote:The cz is likely cheaper than lithgow. 452 is the older Model than 455, apparently discontinued but they still make them. All will be very good. Why a varmint, you hunting bunnies? 22lr barrels don't really warm up, and don't see the point of too heavy a 22lr even if it's a target only... but I am no expert (just a noob)


CZ is marginally cheaper new but the 452 Varmints that seem to come up are about the same as the Lithgow, heavy barrel is preference, a Varmint barrel will generally be a bit more accurate not only due to heat but also harmonics. And yes bunnies as well as targets.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by in2anity » 13 Jun 2018, 8:45 am

The CZ455 has interchangeable barrels, some believe this is detrimental to accuracy. The 452 is the last of the CZs before they moved to the interchangeable 455s, that's basically why they are more expensive. The new CZs are generally regarded as accurate, but not quite the same quality as the older versions like the mod 2s. I've never seen a scientific comparison of the 452vs455, so be aware all of this is anecdotal. I know the 455s are popular for various comp shooting, particularly in the states, this is proof they must be pretty darn accurate.

The LA101 is quite a modern design - I own one. They are accurate - easily mechanically capable of sub moa. But they are also fairly heavy - not a trekking rifle. The comb is tall, which you will appreciate eventually. The cons with the Lithgows are the (stock) triggers are a little heavy (for target shooting) and a lot of the early built ones had feeding/stovepiping issues. If you buy a Lithgow, you run the very real risk of obtaining an (expensive) misfeeding rifle (which you'll need to wait while Lithgow rectifies) - you need to be across the serial numbers to mitigate this issue, I think the last two digits are the year built (there is more info on this forum regarding this if you do some digging). I'd only get a late 16 built one or later. Not to mention the Lithgows are also comparatively pricey. But once you've sorted these issues (and put the Lumley spring kit in :thumbsup: ), they are an heirloom rifle.

Now i will throw a couple more possibilities into the mix: the Savage Mark II are often overlooked because savages are generally pretty cheap - the fact of the matter is, this is a true heavy-barrelled target rifle which I've witnessed shoot some darn good groups. Another option is to hang out till the Tikka t1x arrives - this is hotly anticipated product that could really shake up the industry - sako quality with a lower-than-lithgow pricetag, also offered in a compact 16" option which is just perfect if you'll only ever run a scope.

Hope this helps.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 13 Jun 2018, 8:57 am

in2anity wrote:The CZ455 has interchangeable barrels, some believe this is detrimental to accuracy. The 452 is the last of the CZs before they moved to the interchangeable 455s, that's basically why they are more expensive. The new CZs are generally regarded as accurate, but not quite the same quality as the older versions like the mod 2s. I've never seen a scientific comparison of the 452vs455, so be aware all of this is anecdotal. I know the 455s are popular for various comp shooting, particularly in the states, this is proof they must be pretty darn accurate.

The LA101 is quite a modern design - I own one. They are accurate - easily mechanically capable of sub moa. But they are also fairly heavy - not a trekking rifle. The comb is tall, which you will appreciate eventually. The cons with the Lithgows are the (stock) triggers are a little heavy (for target shooting) and a lot of the early built ones had feeding/stovepiping issues. If you buy a Lithgow, you run the very real risk of obtaining an (expensive) misfeeding rifle (which you'll need to wait while Lithgow rectifies) - you need to be across the serial numbers to mitigate this issue, I think the last two digits are the year built (there is more info on this forum regarding this if you do some digging). I'd only get a late 16 built one or later. Not to mention the Lithgows are also comparatively pricey. But once you've sorted these issues (and put the Lumley spring kit in :thumbsup: ), they are an heirloom rifle.

Now i will throw a couple more possibilities into the mix: the Savage Mark II are often overlooked because savages are generally pretty cheap - the fact of the matter is, this is a true heavy-barrelled target rifle which I've witnessed shoot some darn good groups. Another option is to hang out till the Tikka t1x arrives - this is hotly anticipated product that could really shake up the industry - sako quality with a lower-than-lithgow pricetag, also offered in a compact 16" option which is just perfect if you'll only ever run a scope.

Hope this helps.


thanks, helps a lot actually, I new a fair bit about the 452's but I don't know much about the 455's, I never knew about the misfeeding of the Lithgows so thats something to look into, and yeah I completely wrote off the Savage because of it being a Savage, and I completely forgot about the T1X Tikka, you've given me a bit more to think about and research.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by PaddyT » 13 Jun 2018, 9:05 am

Ive put over 2000 rounds through my LA 101 and had about 10 misfeeds- usually with CC! std which i seem to have the odd bent or mishapen round anyway.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by Cooper » 13 Jun 2018, 10:59 am

I have have a CZ452 and CZ455. The only reason I'd pick the CZ452 over the Cz455 is the cz452 was the first gun I ever bough. Other than that they both shoot about the same.

So other than sentimental reasons I would probably pick the CZ455 due to been able to change barrels. Mine is usually set up as a 17hmr. Yes you do have to sight it in again when changing barrels. But I don't find it much of a drama really.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 13 Jun 2018, 11:49 am

Cooper wrote:I have have a CZ452 and CZ455. The only reason I'd pick the CZ452 over the Cz455 is the cz452 was the first gun I ever bough. Other than that they both shoot about the same.

So other than sentimental reasons I would probably pick the CZ455 due to been able to change barrels. Mine is usually set up as a 17hmr. Yes you do have to sight it in again when changing barrels. But I don't find it much of a drama really.


thanks, the reason I prefer the 452 is the dickie little insert in the 455 mag well when using it as a 22lr really annoys me, although the idea of being able to buy a match barrel and put it in no worries does intrigue me, is there a replacement bottom metal that fixes that ugly little magwell insert. Only problem is finding a 452/453 Varmint, Anyone know of one for sale or want to sell me theirs at a reasonable price?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 13 Jun 2018, 11:59 am

Be aware that the CZ ejector rubs against a 0.22 calibre cleaning rod. Most recommendations that I have seen are to use a 0.20 cal instead.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by AusTac » 13 Jun 2018, 4:17 pm

Got a la101 in .22lr its a tack driver, magazine is crap but is remedied with a cz mag, tough as, and the trigger is heavy for some, but i guess after 3 years im used to it
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by southwest shooter » 13 Jun 2018, 4:27 pm

Henry .
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by SCJ429 » 13 Jun 2018, 7:04 pm

I don't think that you could go wrong with a rimfire made in Australia, Finland or Germany.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by in2anity » 13 Jun 2018, 7:39 pm

southwest shooter wrote:Henry .

Marlin 39a .
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by southwest shooter » 13 Jun 2018, 8:05 pm

in2anity wrote:
southwest shooter wrote:Henry .

Marlin 39a .

Henry better .
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by in2anity » 13 Jun 2018, 8:16 pm

southwest shooter wrote:
in2anity wrote:
southwest shooter wrote:Henry .

Marlin 39a .

Henry better .


Nah ah - he Henry is a stamped and cast rifle that will be worn out in 20 years or so, and will have little value after a couple of years of use.

The Marlin 39-A is a forged and milled steel, American Walnut legend that will only be smoother, more accurate and valuable with time.

You get what you pay for! :drinks:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 13 Jun 2018, 9:31 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I don't think that you could go wrong with a rimfire made in Australia, Finland or Germany.

fair shout, only problem German stuff isn't cheap but out of curiosity and me happy to pay for quality which ones are you suggesting? Anschütz or Weihrauch? which models?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 13 Jun 2018, 9:34 pm

in2anity wrote:
southwest shooter wrote:
in2anity wrote:
southwest shooter wrote:Henry .

Marlin 39a .

Henry better .


Nah ah - he Henry is a stamped and cast rifle that will be worn out in 20 years or so, and will have little value after a couple of years of use.

The Marlin 39-A is a forged and milled steel, American Walnut legend that will only be smoother, more accurate and valuable with time.

You get what you pay for! :drinks:

I'm with you on this, although I'm more of a Winchester man so I'm going to say 94/22lr
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Jun 2018, 10:03 pm

TBJ wrote: I'm with you on this, although I'm more of a Winchester man so I'm going to say 94/22lr


I have the Norinco JW21 copy of the 9422 and the Henry Classic. The feed system of the JW21 does not impress me, especially compared to the virtually "controlled-feed" system of the Henry. I've compared the JW21 to the 9422 and the parts are identical. The JW21 is a little more accurate and better assembled than the Henry (both of which may only apply to my own examples), and it is quite reliable while it's clean, but by about 300-500rds it's pretty filthy inside and feeding becomes problematic. I very slightly prefer the feel of the Norinco over the Henry but there's little in it.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by Daddybang » 14 Jun 2018, 6:53 am

[/quote]
I'm with you on this, although I'm more of a Winchester man so I'm going to say 94/22lr[/quote]

I love my 94/22...a good robust rifle that's accurate(for a lever) and a lot of fun to shoot :thumbsup:
The only problem it's ever given me was the follower was getting stuck but a good spray with inox sorted that out!! :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by bigrich » 14 Jun 2018, 7:06 am

You can’t go wrong with a weihrauch. Excellent build quality and very accurate. Excellent adjustable trigger
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by southwest shooter » 14 Jun 2018, 9:56 am

Henry still the best .
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by albat » 14 Jun 2018, 11:35 am

what about the new lever release savage's advertised yesterday coming in september rimfire version of the verney carron would make an excellent first .22
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 11:38 am

bigrich wrote:You can’t go wrong with a weihrauch. Excellent build quality and very accurate. Excellent adjustable trigger


What model for a heavy barrel? also what about the availability of mods for it?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by allan » 14 Jun 2018, 1:38 pm

TBJ wrote:
bigrich wrote:You can’t go wrong with a weihrauch. Excellent build quality and very accurate. Excellent adjustable trigger


What model for a heavy barrel? also what about the availability of mods for it?


If you're looking for a heavy barrel and want to pay for a rifle that will last generations - These three:

WEIHRAUCH HW66JM
ANSCHUTZ 1710
LITHGOW LA101 (In a laminated or timber stock)

No mods. required for any of these. I have a couple of each brand and all are about as good as it gets in mass produced rim fires - Just comes down to which style appeals to you most.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 1:54 pm

allan wrote:
TBJ wrote:
bigrich wrote:You can’t go wrong with a weihrauch. Excellent build quality and very accurate. Excellent adjustable trigger


What model for a heavy barrel? also what about the availability of mods for it?


If you're looking for a heavy barrel and want to pay for a rifle that will last generations - These three:

WEIHRAUCH HW66JM
ANSCHUTZ 1710
LITHGOW LA101 (In a laminated or timber stock)

No mods. required for any of these. I have a couple of each brand and all are about as good as it gets in mass produced rim fires - Just comes down to which style appeals to you most.


thanks, I'll have a look into them, whats the difference between the 1710 and the 1410?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by meawls » 14 Jun 2018, 2:25 pm

Own an example of all three ... all fairly recent purchases. Have done benchrest style load development in all three using around 13 available cartridge configurations. Here's the results, from 5 shot groups at 50M (best performers only):

Lithgow LA101: Federal 714 Standard velocity = 7MM; Bushman HVHP (surprise!) and Winchester Superspeed HVHP (I have a sneaking suspicion they're one and the same!!) = 11MM.
Note: this rifle became noticeably more accurate as it wore in .... much more so than usual. In many cases the group sizes halved!! This rifle will NOT extract ANY Winchester loadings - even the Plano box bulk 2000 pack from USA. There must be an issue with their cases. It's been back to the factory and tweeked under warranty - it originally wouldn't extract ANYTHING!! The factory were extremely good about it. I won't send it back again ... just avoid Winchester stuff. This rifle ships with a polymer 5 round magazine. It has an extremely frustrating habit of failing to feed the final (5th) round very regularly ... however it cycles faultlessly with CZ magazines ...?!?! Moral of the story - throw away your Lithgow mag (if this happens to you)??!!

CZ 455: Federal 714 Standard Velocity = 0.456" ... likewise Winchester SubSonics.
Note: ours is the limited edition Bushman Special. Comes with a terrific red stock (beech???) embellished with black paint - but beware if you happen to shoot in damp conditions - this black paint comes off ... and STAINS YOUR HANDS!!! This rifle shoots and extracts everything and anything with utter ease.

CZ 452:Federal 745 HVHP = 0.607". Interestingly, Remingtom CBee ultra low velocity HP's shot 0.418" at 35M. The single most accurate reading I've seen for any ultra low.
Note: ours is the Ultralux long barrelled type. This rifle is still quite new, and the group sizes have improved ... although unfortunately I have yet to properly benchrest it again now that it's properly "worn in", so can't give you exact figures.

General notes: the above measurements were all measured accurately with calipers. Here's the cool thing - all 3 rifles use the standard CZ magazines. They all feel good in the hands ... although the Lithgow took some getting used to at the start. It's a very unusual stock configuration ... but I love it now, and that weird butt sits really well on the bench. It really feels solid too, whereas the CZ's feel ... I dunno ... more feminine perhaps for want of a better word. More slender and a little lighter. Honestly I love all three, and in my opinion you'd probably be happy with whatever you bought. I would gladly buy each again in hindsight. Be aware if you're looking at the CZ Ultralux - it has some truly classy iron sights on it. Unless you remove the rear one you'll be really handicapped in terms of the scope's objective lens possibly contacting the sight's body.

Enjoy!!!
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by sungazer » 14 Jun 2018, 8:02 pm

The Winchester ammo wont extract out of my Anni either. Well it wont extract unfired rounds fired rounds no problems. What is happening in my rifle is that it is jamming the projectiles. In some ways I take this as a good thing as it means the chamber is a good size and most of the ammo sits just off the lands a good thing.
What is the case with the Lithgow is it just unfired rounds or the spent cases as well?
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by meawls » 22 Jun 2018, 1:08 pm

In the case of the Lithgow, it's only fired cases that won't extract. And they're tenacious too. Have to use a cleaning rod from the muzzle end, sometimes needing quite a shove. Doesn't matter how clean the chamber is. Only happens with Winchester. As I mentioned in the Highland ZX ammo thread, those cases in particular get ejected sparkling clean after firing, so it definitely isn't a lack of cleaning that's the problem.
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Re: New .22LR? CZ452 vs CZ455 vs Lithgow LA101?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 22 Jun 2018, 1:13 pm

fideles usque ad mortem
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