Starting out (but able to dabble in competitive?)

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Starting out (but able to dabble in competitive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 29 Jul 2018, 2:27 pm

Hi there,

Just looking for some advice around setup/kit out that lends itself to low level competitive.
Im just starting out, looking at doing .22 rifle with a view to go do some propper competitive stuff in future. (Bench rest)

Currently shooting club guns which i quite like, (Anschutz) - and would like to in future look at getting one. (Awaiting licence to come back, so currently shooting under p650 and hiring club gear)

Im wanting to avoid buying things that will be poor quality/useless/crap/ for compeditive, I realise starting/kitting out wont be cheap, but hey, it'll still be cheaper then my horse riding so that's a bonus!

Perticularly interested in stands for bench rest - what do people reccomend?

Are there any good places/website's to purchase equipment second hand?
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by Stix » 29 Jul 2018, 10:38 pm

enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10279
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 30 Jul 2018, 7:49 am

just buy a 54 annie and be done with it
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by sungazer » 30 Jul 2018, 9:15 am

As above for the Gun but you probably already knew that. An Anschutz 1710 HB. Have a look at www.ozfclass.com.au for front rests but they dont sell that much cheaper even second hand. A SEB max is probably the best.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 30 Jul 2018, 9:29 am

sungazer wrote:An Anschutz 1710 HB.

If the rifle is to be used purely for benchrest target shooting, I would advise against a magazine fed rifle like the 1710. Ye olde single-shot, match 54 target rifle is the ticket. Also, remember a tight tolerance target action demands high-grade target ammunition (you can actually do damage by shooting cheap ammunition through a target action).
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by sungazer » 30 Jul 2018, 9:30 am

+1 As above they are a much stronger action
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 30 Jul 2018, 9:39 am

in2anity wrote:
sungazer wrote:An Anschutz 1710 HB.

If the rifle is to be used purely for benchrest target shooting, I would advise against a magazine fed rifle like the 1710. Ye olde single-shot, match 54 target rifle is the ticket. Also, remember a tight tolerance target action demands high-grade target ammunition (you can actually do damage by shooting cheap ammunition through a target action).


Would exclusively be for bench rest.
Highly unlikely ill do prone, i have shaky hands/not super bad, but when holing a rifle/pistol, I find it difficult however amazingly my accuracy isnt total trash. Other thing is the hands run in the family and get worse with age, so bench rest is probably the best idea for me.

Also yes single shot

I diddnt realise regarding the ammunition - but thankyou, I have a lot to learn

Whats everyones opinions on second hand vrs new? (Guns)

With used obviously you dont know whats been done too it? Or how the barrel has been treated/ammunition used also.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 30 Jul 2018, 9:50 am

warmedfawn wrote:Whats everyones opinions on second hand vrs new? (Guns)


Well with respect to specifically 54 Annies - chances are they would have been well looked after (because it's a serious investment getting one in the first place!), and probably only ever shot match ammunition, so I'd say go for it. In many cases people buy them imagining themselves get into target shooting, only to realise how much of a commitment it is to git-good, especially smallbore; they collect dust until people clean out their safes.

22lrs to a degree improve with age, and if they've only shot match-grade ammo there's little damage that could of really been done to the barrel. Look for private seller adds, and ask why they are selling, what has it been used for, what ammo has it shot etc.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by sungazer » 30 Jul 2018, 9:58 am

And how many rounds as the barrels do wear out. Some quicker than others. If it has been used in competitively it may have shot heaps of rounds. like 10,000 -20,000 which is about where barrels can reach there accuracy end of life.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 30 Jul 2018, 10:04 am

sungazer wrote:And how many rounds as the barrels do wear out. Some quicker than others. If it has been used in competitively it may have shot heaps of rounds. like 10,000 -20,000 which is about where barrels can reach there accuracy end of life.


Obviously this is anecdotal, but I've been told a well looked after target 22 (that only shot quality ammunition) can last for a couple of hundred thousand rounds. Back when I shot smallbore (with club guns that everybody shot), those guns had shot many tens of thousands of rounds, and still shot bloody well (i.e. poor accuracy came from you!).
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by sungazer » 30 Jul 2018, 10:10 am

Of course its based on the few cases where a barrel has worn out unexpectedly or much sooner than the owner expected wanted. often a long winded story over several months of a gun not shooting well then the barrel being found to be the culprit. As always its the bad ones you hear about.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 30 Jul 2018, 10:15 am

Heres a great question for you all,

Im not shy to invest time and money into a hobby, horses was life consuming (when i was compeditively stuck into it) but dialled back now and was looking for something different, and here we are, (its not that i haven't previously been interested but i havent had the time previously)

But for low level compeditive what sort of investment (ongoing, not initial set up) is it? Time and money

I at very least want to give it a good crack, im not expecting to be anything spectacular, but i enjoy precision, and the persuit of perfection.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 30 Jul 2018, 10:18 am

in2anity wrote:
sungazer wrote:And how many rounds as the barrels do wear out. Some quicker than others. If it has been used in competitively it may have shot heaps of rounds. like 10,000 -20,000 which is about where barrels can reach there accuracy end of life.


Obviously this is anecdotal, but I've been told a well looked after target 22 (that only shot quality ammunition) can last for a couple of hundred thousand rounds. Back when I shot smallbore (with club guns that everybody shot), those guns had shot many tens of thousands of rounds, and still shot bloody well (i.e. poor accuracy came from you!).



I assume it would also come down to maintence of gun? - but thats interesting
Are there any good books/guides on how to properly maintain your rifle? (That people would reccomend)
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 30 Jul 2018, 10:27 am

warmedfawn wrote:I assume it would also come down to maintence of gun? - but thats interesting


Absolutely. 22lr cleaning regime is a divided realm (you'll have to forge your own path) - but FWIW a long time ago I was trained by a coach to clean gently but frequently. I shoot mainly silhoutte these days, and for me "frequently" means the end of the day, after aproximately 200 shots.

warmedfawn wrote:Are there any good books/guides on how to properly maintain your rifle? (That people would reccomend)


This is pretty thorough:

http://www.ssvtexel.nl/index.cfm?act=fi ... 897974784F
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by sungazer » 30 Jul 2018, 12:08 pm

That is a really good document in2anity I hope lots of people take the time to read it.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 30 Jul 2018, 12:33 pm

sungazer wrote:That is a really good document in2anity I hope lots of people take the time to read it.

humbling isn't it :drinks:
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by allan » 30 Jul 2018, 1:10 pm

warmedfawn wrote:Im not shy to invest time and money into a hobby -
But for low level compeditive what sort of investment (ongoing, not initial set up) is it? Time and money
I at very least want to give it a good crack, im not expecting to be anything spectacular, but i enjoy precision, and the persuit of perfection.


Some good advice above - For what you have in mind, a second hand German build single shot 22 is the go - The Anschutz 54 actions like the old 14XX series & the Walther KK's are still out there and if you know what to look for, some of them are in excellent condition for age. You will need a full on custom BR build (costing a LOT more than one of these guns) to consistently out-shoot them.

Here is a case in point - My latest project build - A Walther KK Moving Target model coming up 40 years old. I have less than $3k invested in everything you see in this pic - Having owned the odd competitive 22, this one is right up there!

By far the most expensive on-going cost if you shoot rim fire BR is the ammunition. Bulk ammo simply won't cut it - You will need the likes of SK, RWS, Lapua, Eley etc. - The more accuracy you expect, the more $$ you have to spend on ammo. (as a rule).
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 30 Jul 2018, 4:16 pm

Thats about what i was expecting, cost wise for gun set up to be honest. ( and still cheaper then my bloody saddle!)
Will look into ammo costs, I dont see the point in running poor quality ammo which potentially will damage the barrel, perticularly considering what id like to do.

Anyhow im going to potter around on clubs guns a bit longer, and investigate further before rushing into any purchase

Thankyou for all the advice- greatly appreciated, everyone so far has been super freindly and supportive club/here which is nice to see

Does anyone know clubs near wollongong that have 100m bench rest? Have done 50 so far, would love to try 100 at some point. (Its fine if its a hour or bit drive)
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 31 Jul 2018, 8:56 am

warmedfawn wrote:Will look into ammo costs, I dont see the point in running poor quality ammo which potentially will damage the barrel, perticularly considering what id like to do.


Not so much the barrel - the strain is more on the action. At a minimum you'll probably want to running SK or Eley - both give or take around the $100/500 mark.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 31 Jul 2018, 1:40 pm

Ahh ok, is this why I see the pro guys taking the action out and packing it away seprately? Not everyone seems to do this ive noticed

...sorry for all tge questions, but thankyou!
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 31 Jul 2018, 1:59 pm

warmedfawn wrote:Ahh ok, is this why I see the pro guys taking the action out and packing it away seprately? Not everyone seems to do this ive noticed

...sorry for all tge questions, but thankyou!


FYI technically that's just the bolt - the action is the all encompassing mechanism (including the bolt) that handles the ammunition (loads, locks, fires, extracts and ejects). Not trying to be a smart-a$$ - nothin worse than a "know-all" :drinks:
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by warmedfawn » 31 Jul 2018, 2:29 pm

No, no all good, here to learn
So its the barrel itself then? I got a little confused as previously from what was said i understood it to be the barrel which is the issue with regards to wear and tear and ammo. Not the bolt.

Any great books/sites for people who are new and just learning in general? (Rifle) my knowledge is very limited, its all a new game for me
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 31 Jul 2018, 2:35 pm

warmedfawn wrote:No, no all good, here to learn
So its the barrel itself then? I got a little confused as previously from what was said i understood it to be the barrel which is the issue with regards to wear and tear and ammo. Not the bolt.

Any great books/sites for people who are new and just learning in general? (Rifle) my knowledge is very limited, its all a new game for me


The barrel is attached (usually screwed) to the action, and has the chamber (for a specific calibre) cut into it. Sorry, don't know of any books.
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by Daddybang » 31 Jul 2018, 2:48 pm

warmedfawn wrote:..sorry for all tge questions, but thankyou!


That's what this forum is for. Don't ever be scared of askin questions when ya not sure. Firearms don't leave a lot of room for errors!! :thumbsup: :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 31 Jul 2018, 3:04 pm

Possibly try google, or youtube there is plenty of info. This forum has been good for any specific questions I had, but I knew some basics from when I was younger plus movies... lol

Also recommended going to a range, ssaa in springvale, victoria are open every day, I find best is to actually do it in real and then ask specific questions

If you don't have a license the safety course covers many basics esp in handling of firearms
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Re: Starting Out /(but able to dabble in compeditive?)

Post by in2anity » 31 Jul 2018, 3:14 pm

Something like this is what yu need, perfect scope for benchrest too: https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=131270
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