Need help with a rimfire choice.

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Wombat » 07 Sep 2018, 8:13 pm

Well, if you are going to stick with rimfire Winchester now do subsonic 22mag ammo. That gives you a quieter option with a bit more oomph than Subsonic LR.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2018, 8:23 pm

Wombat wrote:Well, if you are going to stick with rimfire Winchester now do subsonic 22mag ammo. That gives you a quieter option with a bit more oomph than Subsonic LR.


Not much difference in energy if both are similar weight at the same velocity. Is the Winchester a heavier bullet?
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bigrich » 07 Sep 2018, 8:36 pm

Chappo wrote:Thanks guys.
Yeah big rich. Doesn’t have to be a rimfire, just trying to keep the noise down a bit and I don’t have experience with the less common Hornet - bee etc rounds.
I’m leaning towards 22wmr for the extra stopping power at 150yds.
Duncan, I see you’ve got a .22 Hornet. What do you think of it?


i would go the 22 mag or 22 hornet. my personal opinion 17hmr projectiles are a bit light . 22 mag 40gr hp cci's were good. i think $32 for a box of 50. i've had good results with 46gr win hollow points in 22 hornet ( under a inch at 100 ) but their $90 for 50. rem hp's are next best for accuracy but their $76 a box of 50. second hand zastava 22 hornets can be had cheap and can be very accurate. if you can get them in (foxes ) and only cull now and again and want to keep the noise down 22 mag is a good choice. if you don't head shoot they can tear up a rabbit but, not good if you want the meat . if you can find a old german made krico, they can be very accurate. if you want new get a weihrauch. you wont find a better factory trigger JMHO :thumbsup:
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by duncan61 » 07 Sep 2018, 10:25 pm

Not having a go bigrich but I ran a .17 HMR Ruger lever rifle with a 6x40 scope and any furry critter within 200 Metres that was body shot was massively internally damaged.I have no recollection of anything getting away.I have put 3 subsonic .22LR in a rabbit at 20 feet and it was still moving.the little 17 or 20gn pills are really moving and they have a ballistic tip.If you have not seen the results first hand its hard to believe how much killing power they have.At a station I culled roos on I would use the lever .17HMR for head shooting roos near the homestead as there was no noticable muzzle flash and not the deep crack/boom of a centrefire I used to ask the station workers but I never woke them up at 2.00am and the roos lked to hang out in the homestead paddocks maybe they thought they were safe.Ballistics on paper do not always have the same result as reality.I would not hesitate to have a .17 HMR again.I appreciate cost factors and stuff but would you buy a ferrari and put 91 octane in it to save a dollar???
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Chappo » 07 Sep 2018, 10:28 pm

Thanks everyone.
Plenty of good ideas here.
The .22 hornet might be my next acquisition.

Bigrich. The Weihrauch sounds nice, I do like my oldies though and I’ve been interested in the Brno zkw465.

To those who suggested a tamer load in a .223 I will have some mates load some for me to try when Lithgow finally send me my 102
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Chappo » 07 Sep 2018, 10:30 pm

Ps
Thanks for not letting this get into the age old “which is better, 22wmr or .17hmr” argument!!
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2018, 10:32 pm

duncan61 wrote:damn now I have to get these 22 Cal .224 35 gr V-MAX® and spend the weekend reloading


I use them in the .223 with good results.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2018, 10:35 pm

duncan61 wrote:Sometimes in life we do things for the hell of it.I reload hornet and love the little fella.It will never catch the .222 no matter what some people claim and I soft load my .222 for about 2800 with 50g pills even a K hornet wont go that fast


Agreed, I would have no hesitation in adding a Hornet to my collection. But for most people that only like a handful of rifles, they're better served by getting something bigger they can load down for "Hornet" use, while also having the greater abilities of the full-power load. .243 can be loaded down to do everything the Hornet will do.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Wombat » 07 Sep 2018, 10:59 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Wombat wrote:Well, if you are going to stick with rimfire Winchester now do subsonic 22mag ammo. That gives you a quieter option with a bit more oomph than Subsonic LR.


Not much difference in energy if both are similar weight at the same velocity. Is the Winchester a heavier bullet?


A touch at 45gr V 40gr, just pointing out that if the 22 magnum was too loud there are quieter rounds available for it now.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by duncan61 » 07 Sep 2018, 11:05 pm

Totally agree blade as always you have it wired.I have yet to get into trailboss loads but soon I will have all my reloading stuff back at my house.Where we collectively reloaded at a workshop my mate has passed on to the big Thailand in the sky and soon I will have to remove all the shooting stuff back to where I live.Many years ago I carefully necked out Hornet cases to .243 to make something like the 300 whisper.I never got round to getting a rifle chambered for it but now it is all doable
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2018, 11:08 pm

duncan61 wrote:Many years ago I carefully necked out Hornet cases to .243 to make something like the 300 whisper.I never got round to getting a rifle chambered for it but now it is all doable


I used to seat 139gn 6.5x55mm FMJ's into .222Rem brass, just for key rings though, it never occurred to me to actually try shooting such a thing :-)
Interesting idea though, if I came across a 6.5mm barrel.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by duncan61 » 07 Sep 2018, 11:09 pm

22 Cal .224 35 gr V-MAX® in .223 would be zipping along at around 3500fps.Thats cooking.Do you remember when 3000fps sounded fast
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2018, 11:18 pm

duncan61 wrote:22 Cal .224 35 gr V-MAX® in .223 would be zipping along at around 3500fps.Thats cooking.Do you remember when 3000fps sounded fast


I recall the first time I saw the .17 Remington - that thing was a bloody laser beam compared to my .222Rem!
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by duncan61 » 08 Sep 2018, 1:14 am

Still is.Be hard to keep clean them little 17 rods are tiny
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bigrich » 08 Sep 2018, 7:00 am

bladeracer wrote:
duncan61 wrote:Sometimes in life we do things for the hell of it.I reload hornet and love the little fella.It will never catch the .222 no matter what some people claim and I soft load my .222 for about 2800 with 50g pills even a K hornet wont go that fast


Agreed, I would have no hesitation in adding a Hornet to my collection. But for most people that only like a handful of rifles, they're better served by getting something bigger they can load down for "Hornet" use, while also having the greater abilities of the full-power load. .243 can be loaded down to do everything the Hornet will do.


I had a really accurate Krico hornet, but after I got my 222 Winchester I came to the same conclusion BR . I liked my hornet, but excellent accuracy in 222 is so easy :thumbsup:
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Diamond Jim » 18 Oct 2018, 7:28 pm

Given that you specify a rimfire and given the parameters you describe, the .17HMR seems to be the obvious choice. A .17 Hornet would do the job as well but unless you reload I'd be scared of the price of factory ammo. I know .17HMR isn't cheap like .22LR but the price of factory .22 Hornet is ridiculous. Ammo price is not an issue if you are shooting low volumes but shooting is fun so why limit yourself to low volumes?
So, my advice is buy a CZ455 in .17 HMR for about $700 and buy a .22LR conversion down the track to shoot lots and lots of cheap .22LR
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Chappo » 18 Oct 2018, 8:06 pm

Too late jim, i bought a slazenger 24.
Thanks though.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Diamond Jim » 07 Nov 2018, 12:47 am

If that is the Slazenger 22 Hornet built on a SMLE action I think you are going to be very happy. We've had one in the family for over 50 years and it's an accurate rifle that has never let us down. Ours is fitted with iron sights only but it's never been an issue over the Hornet's range.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Bills Shed » 07 Nov 2018, 7:23 am

If not going to reload I would do the 17HMR. A box of ammo will last awhile if you do not do much shooting. It will do 150m with out to much drama. Same with 22mag. Simple and easy. Finding the ammo that works may take a bit of patience but that is for all rifles.
For a lot more speed the little 17 hornet is wonderful. Louder than a 22 mag but far less than a 223. I have down loaded it to 1900fps but you really need a very frangable projectile at that low velocity. Even the Vmax does little at this speed. The 22 hornet is another favourite of mine and I now have a little 30gn round nose soft point that just destroys itself at low velocity.
The 222 and 223 can be down loaded to the 22Hornet velocity but again the projectile needs to be very frangable. Not much of a win when using a short light projectile as the jump can destroy accuracy. I have a 55gn deep hollow pointed projectile which is a bomb at low velocity so I have that figured out. I still had some of my low velocity 223 rounds with a standard 55 gn Winchester soft point and shot a feral cat on the week end. Just went straight through and that was at less than 10 metres.

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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Nov 2018, 7:00 pm

There is a truly eye opening video on YouTube where ppl are testing the lethality of a .22 at distance. The line in the sand from memory was a 3/4inch of pine - if it could penetrate that then it is apparently regarded as lethal.

At 200m the holes - CCI high velocity ammo - was crisp cut.
At 300m - the holes were crisp cut.
Only at 400m was the bullet occasionally getting stuck.

This opened my eyes dramatically...I would have never believed a .22 LR would do that...

I then decided to push my cz .22 to 120m site range for a bit of fun. Drop was about 2.5-3 inches from the previous 50m site in
I’ve nailed rabbits stone dead at 150 with that cz. Can’t speak for foxes.
Oh, I should have added - I was using lapua magazine .22 sub sonics. It is almost laughable waiting for the bullet to reach the target but, it works and the bunnies don’t scare at all from what amounts to a loud hammer strike type noise. I’m not sure I’d try it on anything bigger, I don’t know that it would be a quick dispatch on a larger hare or fox.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2018, 6:18 am

TassieTiger wrote:There is a truly eye opening video on YouTube where ppl are testing the lethality of a .22 at distance. The line in the sand from memory was a 3/4inch of pine - if it could penetrate that then it is apparently regarded as lethal.

At 200m the holes - CCI high velocity ammo - was crisp cut.
At 300m - the holes were crisp cut.
Only at 400m was the bullet occasionally getting stuck.

This opened my eyes dramatically...I would have never believed a .22 LR would do that...

I then decided to push my cz .22 to 120m site range for a bit of fun. Drop was about 2.5-3 inches from the previous 50m site in
I’ve nailed rabbits stone dead at 150 with that cz. Can’t speak for foxes.
Oh, I should have added - I was using lapua magazine .22 sub sonics. It is almost laughable waiting for the bullet to reach the target but, it works and the bunnies don’t scare at all from what amounts to a loud hammer strike type noise. I’m not sure I’d try it on anything bigger, I don’t know that it would be a quick dispatch on a larger hare or fox.


You should have a lot more drop at 120m. With CCI Std Vel (40gn at 1080fps) I'm zeroed at 55m and dropping 205mm at 100m, 375mm at 120m, 725mm at 150m, 1580mm at 200m, 2785mm at 250m, 4415mm at 300m, 6500mm at 350m, and nine-meters drop at 400m. I haven't shot with accuracy to 400m as yet to confirm that, but it is in that ballpark.

Take it out even further, it's great fun waiting for the bullet to hit. You fire the shot, cycle the action, see the splash against steel, and then you hear the ring a second later. At around 300m it take a second for the bullet to hit the target, and another second for the sound to come back to you. Trying to judge the wind gets really difficult.

I haven't tried it on pine, but I did test against corrugated steel sheeting - the average farm shed. CCI Quiet at 710fps penetrates to about 180m. CCI Std Vel is getting down to the same velocity at around 450m, so I would expect penetration around that point. I'll drag a sheet up the paddock one day and confirm that.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Nov 2018, 10:21 am

From memory, I was already 1 inch high on the 50m - but it was a while ago now...
Regardless - it was an eye opener, as you've explained above. I dont think I'd be confident at your distances at this stage, but I can see what you mean re time for bullet to hit...it's hilarious fun. I think it also depends on where you shooting as well as the echo can mess up the effect if in a canyon environment.

180m and extra low velocity goes through steel corrugation ? that's surely a kill on a rabbit / hare!!!
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2018, 10:46 am

TassieTiger wrote:From memory, I was already 1 inch high on the 50m - but it was a while ago now...
Regardless - it was an eye opener, as you've explained above. I dont think I'd be confident at your distances at this stage, but I can see what you mean re time for bullet to hit...it's hilarious fun. I think it also depends on where you shooting as well as the echo can mess up the effect if in a canyon environment.

180m and extra low velocity goes through steel corrugation ? that's surely a kill on a rabbit / hare!!!



It certainly has enough power to kill at that sort of range, but it doesn't have the precision to ensure good placement. Even if you can hold 1MoA out to 180m, the trajectory (710fps is 2600mm drop from a 55m zero) requires absolute perfection in ranging the target (one meter short or long is 30mm elevation difference), and reading the wind.
I just finished putting 200rds on steel at 40m, 160m, 166m and 225m with the Ruger Rimfire Target. I also shot some 10rd groups but haven't been up yet to look at them.
I knocked the rifle off the bench this morning - again!
It landed right on the elevation turret on the floor so I had to go and check zero.
Not too bad, it seems to have compressed the rear adjustable ring a bit so it was shooting 9MoA low at 40m, and 2MoA to the left.
But cycling through various ranges I was shooting fifth-scale steel silhouettes at 160m without any problems, although those chickens are a bit small for consistent hits.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by in2anity » 12 Nov 2018, 4:37 pm

bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:From memory, I was already 1 inch high on the 50m - but it was a while ago now...
Regardless - it was an eye opener, as you've explained above. I dont think I'd be confident at your distances at this stage, but I can see what you mean re time for bullet to hit...it's hilarious fun. I think it also depends on where you shooting as well as m echo can mess up the effect if in a canyon environment.

180m and extra low velocity goes through steel corrugation ? that's surely a kill on a rabbit / hare!!!



It certainly has enough power to kill at that sort of range, but it doesn't have the precision to ensure good placement. Even if you can hold 1MoA out to 180m, the trajectory (710fps is 2600mm drop from a 55m zero) requires absolute perfection in ranging the target (one meter short or long is 30mm elevation difference), and reading the wind.
I just finished putting 200rds on steel at 40m, 160m, 166m and 225m with the Ruger Rimfire Target. I also shot some 10rd groups but haven't been up yet to look at them.
I knocked the rifle off the bench this morning - again!
It landed right on the elevation turret on the floor so I had to go and check zero.
Not too bad, it seems to have compressed the rear adjustable ring a bit so it was shooting 9MoA low at 40m, and 2MoA to the left.
But cycling through various ranges I was shooting tenth-scale steel silhouettes at 160m without any problems, although those chickens are a bit small for consistent hits.


Tenth scale chickens would be only slightly more than 1” wide - you’d be doing well to hit them even at 100m
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by in2anity » 12 Nov 2018, 5:07 pm

TassieTiger wrote:From memory, I was already 1 inch high on the 50m - but it was a while ago now...
Regardless - it was an eye opener, as you've explained above. I dont think I'd be confident at your distances at this stage, but I can see what you mean re time for bullet to hit...it's hilarious fun. I think it also depends on where you shooting as well as the echo can mess up the effect if in a canyon environment.

180m and extra low velocity goes through steel corrugation ? that's surely a kill on a rabbit / hare!!!


It’s cruel shooting rabbits past 100m with a 22lr - expansion is virtual non existent which means a non-vital zone passes right through and only wounds. Ive done it, and I regret it.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2018, 8:27 am

in2anity wrote:Tenth scale chickens would be only slightly more than 1” wide - you’d be doing well to hit them even at 100m


You're quite right!
I meant fifth-scale for rimfire silhouette.
Tenth is for air-rifles I think.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2018, 8:30 am

in2anity wrote:It’s cruel shooting rabbits past 100m with a 22lr - expansion is virtual non existent which means a non-vital zone passes right through and only wounds. Ive done it, and I regret it.


Agreed, stick with paper and steel for long-range .22LR.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by in2anity » 13 Nov 2018, 9:54 am

bladeracer wrote:You're quite right!
I meant fifth-scale for rimfire silhouette.
Tenth is for air-rifles I think.


Spot on Blade :thumbsup:
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2018, 1:17 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kyzih_Jt2U

240m with my Ruger Target MDT.
Target is a steel plate 400mm tall by 200mm wide.

I've ordered ten 5" gongs from Sterk as well - $152 delivered from Brisbane. Hopefully have them this week.
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Re: Need help with a rimfire choice.

Post by Chappo » 14 Nov 2018, 6:21 pm

Diamond Jim wrote:If that is the Slazenger 22 Hornet built on a SMLE action I think you are going to be very happy. We've had one in the family for over 50 years and it's an accurate rifle that has never let us down. Ours is fitted with iron sights only but it's never been an issue over the Hornet's range.


Yes mate it’s a slazenger branded Lithgow conversion built on a 1942 action, field side mount and 2.5-7 31 period scope.
Glad to hear you enjoy yours.
Haven’t put many rounds through it but it seems to shoot well.
Only issue I’ve got is it doesn’t like to pick up the last round from the mag.
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