Lithgow la101 scope questions

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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by bladeracer » 24 Sep 2018, 6:10 pm

Urastus wrote:In my research on scopes I often came across pyramid air.

The mounts look good. It looks like the rail on the base of the mount might cover half the ejection port.


You might struggle with a rail on that, although you could grind the side out of it to clear the ejection port.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 24 Sep 2018, 6:58 pm

The lithgow optional rail is shaped around the port. However, I think I like the leupold prw rings, and as you and in2anity have suggested, I probably won't need a rail.

Now if someone knows what height I'd need for a 50mm objective on an la101, I'll have all my answers :)
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 24 Sep 2018, 8:48 pm

The lithgow optional rail is shaped around the port. However, I think I like the leupold prw rings, and as you and in2anity have suggested, I probably won't need a rail.

Now if someone knows what height I'd need for a 50mm objective on an la101, I'll have all my answers :)
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by in2anity » 24 Sep 2018, 10:08 pm

Here’s my Lithgow with a 40mm objective scope and medium leuie rings

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As you can see I have a little dope sheet I once made stuck on the side for number of clicks (from 40m starting zero) for 60m, 77m and 100m - you could just as easily have it in moa if you wanted. These days I know from memory it’s around the 3moa mark, then 6moa, then 10moa - I just quickly spin it around to the appropriate number. You can easily and accurately guesstimate distances between these.

That said, these days I’m a huge fan of the Leupold CDS aka custom dial system. Buy one cry once (learned that the hard way!). Once you figure out the actual trajectory for your favorite load, you send in your ballistic information and receive a free custom dial to match it. Then it’s just a matter of rotating the dial to the required distance and you’re bang-on (pun intended). Here’s my 308w CDS:

F2F4EC16-95F2-4493-96B4-2E619676E291.jpeg
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The digits on that turret are in hundreds of meters, with 1(00m) being my zero. It has multiple rotations going all the way up to 8(00m)! That thing is deadly out to 500m with my pet 150gr load.

Then you can go full bespoke (if you pay); here’s a CDS I had made for a rimfire silhouette build:

4586D490-87F7-4EAC-8135-3886F1080581.jpeg
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All you gotta do is rotate to the bank that you’re currently shooting and bingo, perfect every time. Also that turret has a stopper in it preventing over-rotation so it’s 100% idiot proof (lucky for me ;)

Honestly I think a 40mm objective is more than enough for a 22lr - the importance is in glass quality. And I strongly feel the 22lr is at most a 100m caliber - the wind absolutely destroys it past 100m. That bdc reticle stuff just didn’t work well for me in reality - believe me I tried to make it work (even in comps), but I shoot best with a dead on hold and my silly wet scores reflected this. Food for thought. :drinks:
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by straightshooter » 25 Sep 2018, 7:20 am

Please understand that I have never seen or handled a Lithgow 101 so the clear images on this thread are a revelation to me and hence the following comments.
I see the lack of a built in standard rimfire dovetail as a serious deficiency although it may be feasible to overcome with suitable selection of rings and scope.
The rail bases, the necessary rings and large objective scope all serve to increase the height of the scope.
If you hope to use the rifle for small game, problems will arise with the height of the centerline of the scope compared to the centerline of the bore and the shape of the stock.
Put simply the scope will be too high and your head position will be unsupported resulting in erratic practical offhand accuracy.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by in2anity » 25 Sep 2018, 8:18 am

straightshooter wrote:Please understand that I have never seen or handled a Lithgow 101 so the clear images on this thread are a revelation to me and hence the following comments.
I see the lack of a built in standard rimfire dovetail as a serious deficiency although it may be feasible to overcome with suitable selection of rings and scope.
The rail bases, the necessary rings and large objective scope all serve to increase the height of the scope.
If you hope to use the rifle for small game, problems will arise with the height of the centerline of the scope compared to the centerline of the bore and the shape of the stock.
Put simply the scope will be too high and your head position will be unsupported resulting in erratic practical offhand accuracy.


bear in mind the European comb styling on the la101, but yeah - a rail AND a 50mm objective would definitely be on the taller side :shock: although you might get away with low rings with such a setup as the flares might extend down lower than the rail... I say KISS - a nice set of leuie rings with a leuie duplex scope would see you through to the end of days. something like this https://www.ozscopes.com.au/leupold-vx- ... scope.html
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 25 Sep 2018, 11:43 am

in2anity, I don't think that scope gets closer than 50 yards focus. The 3-9x33 efr target has an adjustable objective that goes down to 10 yards - but apparently the objective is smaller than 33 (someone measured it), which seems too small. It's weird, hawke vortex and bucket loads of other manufacturers all go down to 10 yards or even less; and leupold has one scope with a tiny objective - sheesh. Nikon has an awesome bang for buck scope but again it's really strange. In the states it will focus down to 10 yards. The model here is 50 yards - nikon.com.au says 10 yards, but all sellers and suppliers say 50yards (one shop showed me the min 50yd mark on the objective adjuster)? It's a 3-9x40 target efr ao (the model names vary; in US it is now the p3 I think, here it's all sorts of things including ps2?). The other strange thing with Leupold side focus is, apparently it's not really a focus, or you don't use it to focus, it's used to remove parallax and the routine sounds like too much trouble :) https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/side-focus-parallax-help-needed-leupold-4-5-14.82191/ . I did read this on leupold too but too much trouble to find where.
So I really wanted an adjustable front objective - one less lens (more light, less complex), really basic, and you do focus. Meopta has an awesome scope with great reviews (not many) and the glass has has been compared to zeiss victory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQUykptFD0c, but $1600. The dude reviewing in youtube has a 6-24 (he shoots bunnies at 700 yards :) ), but I was considering the 4-16x44 and was thinking the quality would be similar. But after saying all that, it sounds like you are both recommending a 40mm objective? I think the local rifle shop will put up with me changing the order, especially if they get to keep the difference :) I think I'm going to ask them to change the rifle order too - I don't want the threaded barrel.

As an aside, my friend is on a club committee and he went to a meeting (gov, police, hunters, clubs etc) for the whole of Tassie discussing the recent changes that the liberals were proposing - no changes. So no silencers in the foreseeable future. And really, I'd probably get a 16" barreled rifle for a silencer.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by bladeracer » 25 Sep 2018, 1:50 pm

Urastus wrote:I think I'm going to ask them to change the rifle order too - I don't want the threaded barrel.


I don't have any interest in suppressors, but I prefer a threaded muzzle so I can run a cheap flash hider to protect the crown and reduce the chance of plugging the muzzle with mud or dirt if it touches the ground.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by in2anity » 25 Sep 2018, 2:39 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Urastus wrote:I think I'm going to ask them to change the rifle order too - I don't want the threaded barrel.


I don't have any interest in suppressors, but I prefer a threaded muzzle so I can run a cheap flash hider to protect the crown and reduce the chance of plugging the muzzle with mud or dirt if it touches the ground.


Yes I totally second this - having a threaded muzzle is better than not - my la101 is threaded, and it benches just as well as ones without the thread
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 25 Sep 2018, 4:58 pm

Well apparently Lithgow don't have an unthreaded option anymore - according to the local gun shop. I had another look at scopes - I'll stay with what I have and look at it as a learning issue. If I ever get a higher caliber for deer I can put the 4-12x50 on that and get a high end scope that I should be sure about by that time.

Thanks again everyone.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by PaddyT » 26 Sep 2018, 8:10 am

Ive got a Bushnell Trophy 2.5X15 50 on mine, these are being run out at the moment and if you can find one its probably going for around $350 , I paid more for mine at the time but its a lovely scope , makes the rifle a bit heavy when shooting offhand but i can still do a 3-400 round session off hand at the range no probs. The 15 magnification works fine at 100m, at 200 its a bit trick to see the bullet holes - I have been planning to try a 200M fly shoot with it but havent got round to it. Rifle is boringly accurate- im no great shakes as a shooter but 3/4 inch groups at 100 and SK match ammo no probs. CCI Stds, SK STd, SK MAtch, Velocitors, mini mags , ELEY HV, ELEY SUbs, they all shot very well. Mine doesnt like Win PP or CCI Stingers at all.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by in2anity » 26 Sep 2018, 9:52 am

PaddyT wrote:I have been planning to try a 200M fly shoot with it but havent got round to it.

I'm not much of benchrest shooter, but a can definitely see the allure of that fly shoot comp. I think the Lithy would hold its own - the trick to winning is more being able to read the wind/mirage rather than mind-bending mechanical accuracy.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by allan » 26 Sep 2018, 11:05 am

A few pics with options:
Leupold EFR's measure 1.8" across the objective.
Nikon 3-9X40 EFR-Leupold PRW lows- LA101 Bases
Weaver 6-24X42 Classic-Burris Signature Medium Zees-LA101 Bases
Leupold 3-9X33EFR-Leupold PRW lows-LA101 Bases
Image
Image
ImageImage
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 28 Sep 2018, 7:31 pm

Allan: nice; thanks for the photos. You must like the efr's :) Your setup looks similar to what I want. Have you put a bigger pad on the stock for extra lop? And your nikon - that was my first choice; great optics and adjustable objective for a reasonable price. What is the min focus on yours? If it's 10 yards where and when did you buy it? It's hard to get reliable info on that scope here in Aus. Which do you prefer between the nikon and the leupold?

I have the measurements for height to scope barrel etc, but it's looking like I need high judging from your setups. Out of the prw's and the zees, which do you prefer?

PaddyT; what rings are you using? And yes, mine's going to weigh a bit too; it's a heavy scope. I've been doing shoulder exercises in anticipation :D .

Thankyou both
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by allan » 29 Sep 2018, 2:17 pm

Urastus wrote: Have you put a bigger pad on the stock for extra lop? And your nikon - that was my first choice; great optics and adjustable objective for a reasonable price. What is the min focus on yours? If it's 10 yards where and when did you buy it? It's hard to get reliable info on that scope here in Aus. Which do you prefer between the nikon and the leupold?
Out of the prw's and the zees, which do you prefer?


Both our LA101's have the factory pads - These stocks fit a wide range of build types - My very small wife and I have no eye relief problems shooting these rifles as pictured.
The AO on my Nikon goes down to 10 yards. It came fitted to a SH Weihrauch HW60J I bought. For the price, these are excellent scopes - I've had this on several very accurate 22's to check tracking and reliability and I can't fault it. Very clear, duplex/dot OK for all round use - Only possible issue for some is that the clicks are 1/4 at 50 YARDS - No biggie for me.
http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/niko ... s-Overview
The Leupold 3-9X33EFR's are about as good as it gets in a small, compact scope and will handle recoil fine too.
If a scope in this size and power range meets your requirements, here is another excellent option:
https://www.clearidgeoptics.com/ultra-rm-s/1814.htm
I own several Clearidge scopes - These are real "sleepers" in the optics world.
I have no issues with the older style PRW rings - Have no experience with the latest versions but some have had problems with them.
I prefer the Signature rings with inserts. They won't ever mark a scope tube and the off set insert kits will correct both windage & elevation variations thus allowing me to mount scopes with the internal adjustments very close to their optical centre - Time consuming and fiddley to mount though.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 29 Sep 2018, 5:20 pm

Thanks Allan. I did consider burris xtr rings - same sort of thing. Yeah, I can imagine they'd be fiddly, loosening off the scope each time and moving it slightly in the rings only to have it move again as you tighten it up :) Similar to caliper brakes on early (and still on cheap) mountain bikes. I've seen clear ridge mentioned a few times on UK air gun forums - those dudes like them. I've researched the nikon scopes here - the au site says 10m, but try and buy one - they're all from 50 yards. I even got one shop to look at the markings on the objective - 50 yards. They're 10yards in the US. I don't know what's going on :?
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by PaddyT » 30 Sep 2018, 12:33 pm

Sorry mate just saw your question , pretty sure they are burris rings but i must admit i just went with the gunshop and didnt question there choice, will have a look and get back to you.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by scoobs » 01 Oct 2018, 9:16 am

bladeracer wrote:You might struggle with a rail on that, although you could grind the side out of it to clear the ejection port.


mine seems to eject them out horizontally, should not hit the rail.
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Re: Lithgow la101 scope questions

Post by Urastus » 01 Oct 2018, 11:23 am

Yeah Scoobs, I'm going to try without the rail initially. I did see a scope rail for the 101 which I thought was made by lithgow - but now can't find where it was. There are a few manufacturers though (including in the uk) who make a rail that is shaped around the port. This one is Aust made, the link is under the picture.

Image

http://www.iceng.com.au/2017/02/15/raising-scope-elevation-to-55moa-for-22lr-with-custom-pic-rail/
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