Cleaning 22's

[in2anity]

Sigh, here's how many target shooters operate; they clean their rifles regularly (with utmost care high quality equipment. As Blade has said, the gun will not shoot optimally with that pristine barrel. But those few sighters also double up as fouling shots, bringing the rifle into its peak "accuracy window". The gun will then (for a time) basically shoot at its peak accuracy, enough to get them through the match. After a while, accuracy will degrade (ever so slightly; where talking only fractions of measurement ), but enough to measurably affect scores. For knock-about hunters and plinkers of course this fractional gain is irrelevant.

[bladeracer]

Sigh, here's how many target shooters operate; they clean their rifles regularly (with utmost care high quality equipment. As Blade has said, the gun will not shoot optimally with that pristine barrel. But those few sighters also double up as fouling shots, bringing the rifle into its peak "accuracy window". The gun will then (for a time) basically shoot at its peak accuracy, enough to get them through the match. After a while, accuracy will degrade (ever so slightly; where talking only fractions of measurement ), but enough to measurably affect scores. For knock-about hunters and plinkers of course this fractional gain is irrelevant.

I think with serious competition shooters there is a preference for a bore that shoots best when it's clean as it allows them to control consistency. Even if the bore might shoot slightly tighter groups after a hundred rounds, before dropping off after 150rds, you can't clean after every shot, then shoot 100 foulers before you take a shot for score. It makes sense to find an ammunition that shoots best in a clean bore for serious competition, and control the condition of the bore by keeping it clean.

For the rest of us though, having a rifle that only shoots well for a few rounds after cleaning is just bloody annoying (I'm somewhere around 15,000rds of .22LR already this year). My .22LR levers get filthy and require stripping the action after about 300rds to keep them functioning, very annoying when you're having a long session of fun. I think my Ruger Target is currently well over 1000rds, and probably close to 1500rds without cleaning, and is still dropping rounds where I want them. I had two fail-to-extracts last week, probably telling me to scrub the chamber clean. Both within the same mag, so it could've just been some crud on the ammo, mag, extractor or chamber.

Shooting groups with a table full of different ammo has shown me that most ammo behaves similarly in an already-fouled bore. A few don't group well until after a few fouling rounds, say between five and twenty, even in an already-fouled bore - I guess they just like their own lube. A small handful really prefer a fairly fresh bore, more so with the high-end competition ammo, although I haven't shot enough bricks of the $30+ stuff to be definitive.

It makes sense that there are not all that many wildly-varied recipes for bullet coatings, with most probably having the same ingredients just at differing ratios.

[bigrich]

I clean the action and the breech, shoot a bit of G96 in, patch it out with two patches (2nd patch comes out clean everytime), spray some inox or gunlube or tackleguard (whatever spray lube i have in reach) on a patch and the run it trough once, store the rifle. Run a dry patch through before shooting, rifle (LA101) shoots very straight, I cant see how a bit of basic cleaning can hurt.

Nobody is saying that cleaning hurts the rifle. But cleaning can give you less than optimal accuracy, or consistency. The claim above is that not cleaning the bore damages the bore through chemical reactions between the fouling and the steel. This may well be true, but whether you clean the bore or not you should still get longer barrel life than most shooters will ever be able to measure in a .22LR. Barrel "life" being measured by permanent loss of accuracy.

Put a brick or three through it and shoot some groups periodically to see if accuracy is effected.
From a clean bore you might find it improves after five rounds or fifty rounds, or you might find accuracy drops off after fifty or a hundred rounds. Some rifle/ammo combinations prefer a clean bore.

i've got a weihrauch hw66 that seems to prefer being cleaned to not being cleaned. very tempremental to ammo change as well.with after 10 fouling shots on a clean barrel it just about shoots one small hole with the occasional flyer with sk match .i went from win subs to sk plus and it shot three inches high to the left, then the shots "walked" back to original point of aim . funny critters at times these 22's i was having a plink session with it against a cz 452 2e american i just bought. i've owned a cz 452 supermatch previously that was very average, but this american is a cracker ! shoots as good ,(if not better with practice) as my weihrauch . no flyers, point of aim hardly changes with ammo brand . i finally have a cz that lives up to their reputation. i bought a torque adjustable screw driver, that made a world of difference to the grouping on the weihrauch . very useful tool maybe i should pillar and bed the weihrauch

[Stoney]

you are very lucky to have an uncle that will gift you a rifle Stoney

Thanks marksman, I will forever cherish " Uncles " .22.

[Stoney]

Sigh, here's how many target shooters operate; they clean their rifles regularly (with utmost care high quality equipment. As Blade has said, the gun will not shoot optimally with that pristine barrel. But those few sighters also double up as fouling shots, bringing the rifle into its peak "accuracy window". The gun will then (for a time) basically shoot at its peak accuracy, enough to get them through the match. After a while, accuracy will degrade (ever so slightly; where talking only fractions of measurement ), but enough to measurably affect scores. For knock-about hunters and plinkers of course this fractional gain is irrelevant.

I think with serious competition shooters there is a preference for a bore that shoots best when it's clean as it allows them to control consistency. Even if the bore might shoot slightly tighter groups after a hundred rounds, before dropping off after 150rds, you can't clean after every shot, then shoot 100 foulers before you take a shot for score. It makes sense to find an ammunition that shoots best in a clean bore for serious competition, and control the condition of the bore by keeping it clean.

For the rest of us though, having a rifle that only shoots well for a few rounds after cleaning is just bloody annoying (I'm somewhere around 15,000rds of .22LR already this year). My .22LR levers get filthy and require stripping the action after about 300rds to keep them functioning, very annoying when you're having a long session of fun. I think my Ruger Target is currently well over 1000rds, and probably close to 1500rds without cleaning, and is still dropping rounds where I want them. I had two fail-to-extracts last week, probably telling me to scrub the chamber clean. Both within the same mag, so it could've just been some crud on the ammo, mag, extractor or chamber.

Shooting groups with a table full of different ammo has shown me that most ammo behaves similarly in an already-fouled bore. A few don't group well until after a few fouling rounds, say between five and twenty, even in an already-fouled bore - I guess they just like their own lube. A small handful really prefer a fairly fresh bore, more so with the high-end competition ammo, although I haven't shot enough bricks of the $30+ stuff to be definitive.

It makes sense that there are not all that many wildly-varied recipes for bullet coatings, with most probably having the same ingredients just at differing ratios.

Hey blade, in my quest for .22 accuracy I have noticed a wide ranging difference in lubricants on .22 lead bullets, from sticky, powdery, waxy, slippery. Also the colour of the lead differs from grey to very black. My success so far has been from Eley Club and surprisingly CCI Standard. Very dark lead. I have also noticed once the barrel gets warmed by a few rounds groups shrink. I never let the barrel cool like you would on a centrefire.

[bladeracer]

Hey blade, in my quest for .22 accuracy I have noticed a wide ranging difference in lubricants on .22 lead bullets, from sticky, powdery, waxy, slippery. Also the colour of the lead differs from grey to very black. My success so far has been from Eley Club and surprisingly CCI Standard. Very dark lead. I have also noticed once the barrel gets warmed by a few rounds groups shrink. I never let the barrel cool like you would on a centrefire.

Yes, the various lubes appear different, I'm not sure their actual ingredients vary much though, particularly not within the same price point. Colour is very likely nothing more than a dye added to the alloy or lube. SK Magazine is the filthiest, slipperiest ammo I've ever used, horrible stuff to try to get into a magazine. That might be a dramatically different type of lube perhaps. I'm only speaking of the 65-odd types of ammo I've tried myself.

Also my preferred ammo, CCI Std Vel for everyday fun, Eley Edge when I want to impress myself. Very little difference in group size but less chance of fliers with the Eley.

I should try some Eley Edge at my long-range targets actually. I just ranged shooting positions at 400m and 450m tonight that I hope to try this week.

[PaddyT]

Blade, got what you are saying i was just explaining my routine, but my shooting routine is this which adds to the story- when i take the 22 to the range i put 2-300 rounds of CC std through- all shot offhand when i first arrive- any accuracy stuff or ammo testing i do after that so i guess i am refouling before i get down to the accuracy stuff.

[bladeracer]

Blade, got what you are saying i was just explaining my routine, but my shooting routine is this which adds to the story- when i take the 22 to the range i put 2-300 rounds of CC std through- all shot offhand when i first arrive- any accuracy stuff or ammo testing i do after that so i guess i am refouling before i get down to the accuracy stuff.

Yep, I wasn't contradicting you.
200+ rounds _before_ getting down to accuracy shooting would make some serious competition shooters cringe

I just noticed Hornady has released some .22LR ammo I'll have to try when I find some.

[PaddyT]

he-he 22 is for practice, lots of it! and if we get some bunnies reappearing its for them too- i did notice the other day in a park ive walked for the last year every Monday at dawn (i do the daughters swimming run on a Monday) a sudden resurgance in the bunny population from zero to about 15 or 20 in just a few weeks- pity its in suburban Sydney, might have to go west now that weve had rain!I am not a serious comp shooter- thats for sure

[Crankycant]

If it's any consolation I haven't cleaned my 17hmr bore in 200 Rds other than first initial to remove grease. Of course I clean and oil the action and other components as you should but it really hits the sweet spot at around 100-150 Rds put through it. Head shooting rabbits out past 100 is my vice and for some reason this girl likes it dirty so I just do as she tells me.

[bladeracer]

If it's any consolation I haven't cleaned my 17hmr bore in 200 Rds other than first initial to remove grease. Of course I clean and oil the action and other components as you should but it really hits the sweet spot at around 100-150 Rds put through it. Head shooting rabbits out past 100 is my vice and for some reason this girl likes it dirty so I just do as she tells me.

That is interesting, everything I've read and heard is that they need cleaning very regularly due to the tiny bore.

[Crankycant]

You know what Bladeracer you know how all ladies are different this is no exception. initial thoughts on the rifle upon breaking the barrel were this rifle is Sh!thhouse. From what read I thought bloody hell I'm going to have to clean this thing all the time and it doesn't shoot straight. But we played around doing a bit of plinking and tried some different things with it anyway and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn right up until we hit over a 100rds, on many occasions cleaned it at 100+ Rds turns out to be the same terrible gun I brought home from the shop with me. Me and mate put two bricks through last weekend patched it with copper solvent no copper residue on the patch just carbon. So unless it is some sort of reverse freak of nature sort of thing. Is there a possibility of an oversized bore if that can actually happen? I don't think It would stabilise the projectile well if it was too oversized and this thing is a pretty excellent shooter for a sub $400 17hmr