Air rifles are weird.

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Growler » 19 Jan 2019, 2:31 pm

My first sluggy was a BSA Meteor "high powered" in .177. (34 years ago?) I could hit bottle tops consistently from 30 odd meters. In saying that I used to shoot coke cans until they were cut in half. I'd spend all weekend sitting on the verandah plinking away. For the life of me I cant remember what brand slugs they were, but were around $2 for a tin of 500. From 5m i actually shot a bee in flight. Mates were witnesses and I was the king hahahahaha. I also from 10m shot a fly that was on the target we were shooting. The legs were still on the paper, King of the sluggy back to back. My old man bought me A Diana mod 52 (.22) for passing year 9. I was never as accurate with that, but nailed many starlings out to about 40m up in trees. Ive been looking at them and they are still $800 new. My old man paid around $700 for it in 1985 I reckon. I wouldn't spend that much now. But if i could find a BSA Meteor again, I'd grab it.
EDIT: Never had a scope for them
Just the necessity
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2019, 6:00 pm

I managed another testing session yesterday, about 360 pellets!
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I've tried five scopes on the Crosman so far, and while I'm still finding the little 4x20 Chinese thing to be the most enjoyable, I've got a Bushnell 6-24x40 on it currently. I used a laser on the barrel to boresight it and I left it on for the first hour or so, just in case I wanted to change the scope. The bore had had 636 pellets through it at this point - no cleaning.
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I shot a ten-shot group to settle the barrel with each pellet, then a second ten-shot group. It did tend to show a better second group, so if you use different pellets it's worth checking zero when changing. Before I fired the first group on paper I fired one or two off to the side to check that the pellet would be on the paper. Most were shot initially aimed at the top "8"

I finished off the A&P Pro-Pell's the other day so I started off with the H&N Field Target Trophy. I fired ten just to set the barrel, then put ten onto paper. But I aimed at the centre of the target which is a very coarse aim point, especially at 12.5m and 24-power, and it went 25.5mm. So I put the second group aimed at the black dot in the bottom loop of the top "8" into 19.5mm.
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Then the H&N Finale Match Heavy into 44mm and 18mm groups, showing immediate credence to the barrel liking to bed in a new pellet before shooting well. These were shooting well right so were aimed at the lower loop of the "8" on the left of the target.
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Next was the Gamo Sniper Magnum at 29mm and 14mm (nine shots as I pulled one). These were well left so were aimed at the lower loop of the "5" on the right side of the target.
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The Gamo Rocket shot 38mm and 20.5mm groups.
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Gamo Red Fire went 29.5mm and 34.5mm.
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H&N Crow Magnum went 25mm (9 shots, I pulled one) and 22mm.
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I only had eighteen H&N Hornets left, so I shot an eight-shot group of 25mm, then a five-shot group of 24mm. Then I removed the laser from the barrel and fired another five-shot group. The first shot went wild but the next four went into 17.5mm. Point of aim only changed by about 5-10mm upwards with removing the laser.
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H&N Barracude Hunter Extreme went 28.5mm and 17mm.
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RWS Diablo Basic went 32.5mm and 16mm.
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RWS R10 Match 7gn 4.50mm went 18.5mm and 19mm, and then I had a play and shot a group with the pellets reversed into 39.5mm. The third shot was very hard to chamber and then went way wide so may have been deformed, which might've reduced the group to 32.5mm for nine shots.
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RWS SuperMag went 33mm and 20mm.
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It was getting difficult to see the black reticle over the black dot in the "8" now so I moved up to aim at the lower loop of the top "6" instead.

RWS Superdome went 25mm and 28mm.
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RWS Powerball went 12.5mm and 12mm - very impressed with these but will likely find them unavailable in Oz with my luck.
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At this point it was getting quite dark so I started shooting double groups on one card to save time, aiming at the lower loops of the "6" on each side of the target..

RWS SuperPoint Extra went 30.5mm and 29.5mm.
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RWS SuperField went 20mm and 18mm.
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And H&N Field Target Green went 30mm and 20mm, and were very loud, I think they went supersonic.
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I noticed the moon was well up, I could hardly make out the target, and the mozzies were pissing me off so I quit.
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I had left the three "alloy" pellets to last so as not to mix them with lead but ran out of light. It was way too wet and windy today to finish them so I sat inside and collated this lot. Those are the Gamo Armor and Raptor and the H&N Barracuda Power.

The standouts for today are the RWS Powerball and the Gamo Sniper Magnum, with the RWS Diablo Basic worth another look I think.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 25 Apr 2020, 10:21 pm

I did a quick pellet test this week.
Eley TenexAir 4.50mm at 12.5m managed a 5rd 8.5mm group, and a 15.5mm 10rd group.
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Eley Ventus 4.51mm managed a 5rd 10mm group.
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RWS Hobby managed a 5rd 10.5mm group.
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The Eley shot nicely but I had a bad taste in my mouth after discovering both boxes had been opened for testing. They're 450 pellet boxes, but the Tenex only had 404 pellets, the Ventus only 421 pellets. On a $500 ammo order I got ripped off about $3.00 worth of pellets, but I won't be spending any more with that dealer. I'm putting it down to a simple mistake, but it should never have happened that boxes from his testing ended up back on the shelf for sale.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 25 Apr 2020, 10:24 pm

And I finished off with H&N Field Target Trophy for a baseline.
A neat 5rd 7mm group, and a 10rd 15mm group to finish off, then I put a few dozen more pellets on some steels for fun :-)
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 27 Apr 2020, 5:53 pm

Yeah I agree mate, they are weird. People can do what they like but I would just use a 22 with subsonic ammo if I needed an air rifle.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 27 Apr 2020, 6:10 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:Yeah I agree mate, they are weird. People can do what they like but I would just use a 22 with subsonic ammo if I needed an air rifle.


Me too, but they do have some uses, particularly where you don't want the bullet to travel more than a couple hundred meters, up into trees for example and in the farm sheds. And the air-rifle is incredibly cheap plinking at close range - about $10 for 500 shots is tough to beat.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by rc42 » 28 Apr 2020, 9:48 am

One real advantage of an air rifle, especially in .177, is that you can shoot upwards, maybe toward a tree, with no concern about where the pellet will end up as it will eventually stop climbing and fall like a extra tiny (8 grain) hailstone and do no damage no matter what it hits.

Obviously care should be taken with any firearm to ensure that projectiles never leave your property but that's easier with air rifles than any other type.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 12:36 pm

rc42 wrote:One real advantage of an air rifle, especially in .177, is that you can shoot upwards, maybe toward a tree, with no concern about where the pellet will end up as it will eventually stop climbing and fall like a extra tiny (8 grain) hailstone and do no damage no matter what it hits.

Obviously care should be taken with any firearm to ensure that projectiles never leave your property but that's easier with air rifles than any other type.


Haha...!!

Cool...!!
Lets all go out & start shooting sh!t in the air then... :clap: :lol:

You say that in a way that youre almost implying other projectiles fired from cartridges using gunpowder as a proppellant, keep going upwards & leave our atmosphere...
Gees can you imagine the amount of #4's & #7's lead shot circling the earth from all those missed clays & ducks... :lol: :lol: :clap:

Also, while im no astro physicist, to my mind, given lead has a density (or mass) thats in the vicinity of ten times that of ice, & given that bulk density difference, will likely impart a greater force on a smaller area of the eyeball of the poor sod your cowboy & indian escapades result in hitting...

:lol: :lol:

Having said that, seeing you in a debate with GCA would make for good entertainment...they say fighting fire with fire is logical... :clap: :lol: ...

:) :drinks:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2020, 1:29 pm

Stix wrote:[quote="rc42"One real advantage of an air rifle, especially in .177, is that you can shoot upwards, maybe toward a tree, with no concern about where the pellet will end up as it will eventually stop climbing and fall like a extra tiny (8 grain) hailstone and do no damage no matter what it hits.

Obviously care should be taken with any firearm to ensure that projectiles never leave your property but that's easier with air rifles than any other type.[/quote

Haha...!!

Cool...!!
Lets all go out & start shooting sh!t in the air then... :clap: :lol:

You say that in a way that youre almost implying other projectiles fired from cartridges using gunpowder as a proppellant, keep going upwards & leave our atmosphere...
Gees can you imagine the amount of #4's & #7's lead shot circling the earth from all those missed clays & ducks... :lol: :lol: :clap:

Also, while im no astro physicist, to my mind, given lead has a density (or mass) thats in the vicinity of ten times that of ice, & given that bulk density difference, will likely impart a greater force on a smaller area of the eyeball of the poor sod your cowboy & indian escapades result in hitting...

:lol: :lol:

Having said that, seeing you in a debate with GCA would make for good entertainment...they say fighting fire with fire is logical... :clap: :lol: ...

:) :drinks:


He is saying that for shooting birds and rats out of trees an air-rifle can be a safer choice because the pellet is going to land somewhere within a couple hundred meters even if you miss the target. A .22LR, even subsonic is likely to go hundreds of meters, perhaps a thousand meters in ideal conditions. Birdshot is another good choice as it falls to ground inside a couple hundred meters also, but 12ga. is an expensive way to deal with pest birds.

As for density, 8gn is still 8gn whether it's a lead pellet or a rain drop, and at 200m it's down to maybe 6-7ft-lb of energy (roughly similar to a 40gn .22LR subsonic at 900m) and 560fps. It requires (from memory) 300-ish fps to penetrate human skin, so it still is still somewhat dangerous, but at least it's easier to manage the danger zone due to the reduced range.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 1:45 pm

Yes...i get all that...sorry the attempt at humour is missed... :unknown:
:)

I really dont believe he thinks astronauts wear heavy visors while space walking because of the vast amounts of lead shot in orbit...

And i understand the weight/mass vs make-up debate...
But my little bit of seriousness in there was saying id rather be hit by a large object weighing "X' kg's, than an object of the same mass & velocity but that has a bulk density 10 ormore times greater.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by rc42 » 28 Apr 2020, 3:40 pm

Airgun pellets have a ballistic coefficient about one fifth of that for a 22LR and about half that of a shotgun 'pellet', once out of the barrel they slow down much faster than either of those.
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc and come back to ground with dangerous energy, they start to arc but lose virtually all horizontal velocity and just drop like a tiny hailstone (except slower because of the pellet tail that is designed like a shuttlecock to create drag and being hollow with air inside they have a low mass for their volume and forward surface area).

Airgun pellets and shot shell fired into the air aren't dangerous when falling down again, unless you're unlucky enough to be looking up and one lands in your eye but even then it would just hurt a bit with no damage. 'real' bullet projectiles travel further and faster, are heavier and have a higher terminal velocity even when just falling, they are much more dangerous.


In any case, nobody should discharge any firearm in any direction without knowing where the projectile could land.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 4:07 pm

rc42 wrote:Airgun pellets ... ... ...
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc .


Can you demonstrate this to me in a graphic based on Einsteins theory of time & space being of the one continuum--ie: the fabric of spacetime... :unknown: :huh: :problem:

I bet you cant...!!!... :lol:

(Dont get your nickers all stinky now--im just mucking around, even if it is true...!!... :lol: )
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2020, 8:12 pm

I was testing more .22LR ammo this arvo, so I took the air-rifle with me and tried it at 50m.
I was very surprised and will have to play with it a lot more at longer ranges.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Apr 2020, 10:00 pm

I think some air rifle pellets are like my mates RC chopper he bought for $399.
It was blowing outside - he took out his brand new RC heli, got the family round, gave it full throttle and pressed the up control...it went vertical at 100mph...got 100m up and the wind got it and we never saw it again - it was out of range but stayed at full throttle. It definitely didn’t stay on the property lol. Mind you - I was crying with laughter for hours as he was crying at his wallet.

But on topic - over last 2 years I’ve had 3 break barrel air rifles in .177 for back yard plunking, birds etc. I bought 2 new (Vmax game was $299, dianna was $350 and bsa was $400) and 1 second hand.

I’ve now sold all of them - consistently was not there and drove me round the twist testing scopes, pellets, etc. I couldn’t get anything resembling consistent accuracy 30-50m. All of these were meant to be over 1000fps - so 30-50m should have been doable.
A friend bought a $2500 air compressor rifle and tbh, even that doesn’t come close to moa on a regular basis and it’s now a safe queen.
Now when I was a kid, I seem to recall hitting matchboxes and smaller at semi .22 ranges With my pump up .177 so I’m not sure how/why, but it seems as if accuracy has dropped off in the last 30 years...at least on the budget air rifles I tried.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2020, 10:27 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I think some air rifle pellets are like my mates RC chopper he bought for $399.
It was blowing outside - he took out his brand new RC heli, got the family round, gave it full throttle and pressed the up control...it went vertical at 100mph...got 100m up and the wind got it and we never saw it again - it was out of range but stayed at full throttle. It definitely didn’t stay on the property lol. Mind you - I was crying with laughter for hours as he was crying at his wallet.

But on topic - over last 2 years I’ve had 3 break barrel air rifles in .177 for back yard plunking, birds etc. I bought 2 new (Vmax game was $299, dianna was $350 and bsa was $400) and 1 second hand.

I’ve now sold all of them - consistently was not there and drove me round the twist testing scopes, pellets, etc. I couldn’t get anything resembling consistent accuracy 30-50m. All of these were meant to be over 1000fps - so 30-50m should have been doable.
A friend bought a $2500 air compressor rifle and tbh, even that doesn’t come close to moa on a regular basis and it’s now a safe queen.
Now when I was a kid, I seem to recall hitting matchboxes and smaller at semi .22 ranges With my pump up .177 so I’m not sure how/why, but it seems as if accuracy has dropped off in the last 30 years...at least on the budget air rifles I tried.


When I was a kid I was shooting air-rifle competition with PCYC every week, open sights, prone, unsupported. I think it was only 10m as it was inside a building, but I'm sure my targets were just a single ragged hole. I think I just don't have that thirteen-year-old's enthusiasm to strive for that level of accuracy after forty years of living in the real world, and I certainly don't have that kid's eyesight anymore :-)

I was also on the small bore team in Army Cadets so was doing a decent amount of competition shooting for a kid, even back then. There weren't many days I didn't do some shooting in the back yard as well, in suburban Perth.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Apr 2020, 10:38 pm

So it might not just be my failing memory BR lol...

I just couldn’t get anything consistent and it’s a similar story with friends who buy a plinker...seeing your results are very interesting...maybe the quest for speed has messed up some space time air rifle continuum...
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 11:44 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: LMFAO....!!!!!!

Ah tummy muscles i forgot about hurt... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well i could fair dinkum hit a starling in the eye out to 20m with old Walther target air rifle when i was a kid... :clap: :thumbsup:
Maybe its the break barrels that break that continuum... :lol:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bigrich » 29 Apr 2020, 6:10 pm

[quote="Stix" Airgun pellets ... ... ...
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc .[/quote]

Can you demonstrate this to me in a graphic based on Einsteins theory of time & space being of the one continuum--ie: the fabric of spacetime... :unknown: :huh: :problem:

I bet you cant...!!!... :lol:

(Dont get your nickers all stinky now--im just mucking around, even if it is true...!!... :lol: )[/quote]

i would demonstrate it for ya stix, but i;m busy installing a flux capacitor to my deisel toyota ........ ;)

i bin thinkin' about a air rifle lately , quiet , cheap shootin' . a mate has rats at his place , a plinkin' session might be fun :P
i've got a loan of one, and little green plastic army men have been decimated , as have aluminium cans and other "reactive targets " :D

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 29 Apr 2020, 9:30 pm

bigrich wrote:[quote="Stix" Airgun pellets ... ... ...
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc .


Can you demonstrate this to me in a graphic based on Einsteins theory of time & space being of the one continuum--ie: the fabric of spacetime... :unknown: :huh: :problem:

I bet you cant...!!!... :lol:

(Dont get your nickers all stinky now--im just mucking around, even if it is true...!!... :lol: )[/quote]

i would demonstrate it for ya stix, but i;m busy installing a flux capacitor to my deisel toyota ........ ;)

i bin thinkin' about a air rifle lately , quiet , cheap shootin' . a mate has rats at his place , a plinkin' session might be fun :P
i've got a loan of one, and little green plastic army men have been decimated , as have aluminium cans and other "reactive targets " :D

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:[/quote]

You're welcome to bring it on down here BR... :thumbsup:

Got a few in my yard...if you get an accurate one we can set up a bait station way down the back yard, & shoot from way up the front of the house in the hallway...we could film it & call it "long range suburban varminting"..."Starring Big Rich..."... :P

Ill be happy to get rid of them & in return cook you up a veal or venison rack, with a coopers ale mushroom/pepper gravy... :thumbsup: :clap:

:drinks:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 29 Apr 2020, 9:32 pm

Just gotta say---this new system of quoting just makes this place look like shyte mess... :roll:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Apr 2020, 10:25 pm

Stix wrote:Just gotta say---this new system of quoting just makes this place look like shyte mess... :roll:


Agree 1000% - i do most of my crap on iPhone and o my hashing the ability use one quote can screw up context...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 30 Apr 2020, 4:49 am

The best way to get rats is poison, the one hit kill type, not the lollies that Bunnings sell. We had enough rats that i started seeing then during the day. Two days after baiting i have a problem,... i see dead rats (everywhere)
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 30 Apr 2020, 9:26 am

What if dogs or other wild life then eat dead rats ?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 30 Apr 2020, 12:18 pm

Sergeant Hartman wrote:The best way to get rats is poison, the one hit kill type, not the lollies that Bunnings sell. We had enough rats that i started seeing then during the day. Two days after baiting i have a problem,... i see dead rats (everywhere)


I struggle with poisoning anything, shooting is far more humane. And we have lots of bush rats as well that we do not want taking baits, I only want to target rattus rattus.

We see both rats in the sheds and compost heaps during the day, and all night the rattus rattus are busy in the house roof, but don't cause any trouble.

Except, last week they discovered a very expensive stack of grass seed. So I put the NV camera on the air-rifle last night, and plan to do some practising with it today.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by rc42 » 30 Apr 2020, 12:27 pm

Poison is a very cruel way to kill anything, a very slow and painful death that has no target control, anything that eats the poison dies, anything that then feeds on its body dies. Shooting is better in every way despite needing more effort.

The only place I would use poison is in the roof space of my house to control rodents when we occasionally get them. Shooting isn't practical there, even with an air rifle and they are not only an annoyance with noise at night but chewing electrical cables could burn the whole house down.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 30 Apr 2020, 12:34 pm

rc42 wrote:Poison is a very cruel way to kill anything, a very slow and painful death that has no target control, anything that eats the poison dies, anything that then feeds on its body dies. Shooting is better in every way despite needing more effort.

The only place I would use poison is in the roof space of my house to control rodents when we occasionally get them. Shooting isn't practical there, even with an air rifle and they are not only an annoyance with noise at night but chewing electrical cables could burn the whole house down.


I shouldn’t post this but it is kinda funny.
A while ago, I complained to my Now departed Grand dad about rats in the roof. I could hear them scratching and running. I told him I was going to try and poison them and - he cracked it with me and said he’d get in the roof with an air rifle and shoot them. Not wanting to disappoint him I said yes.
So, a week later he comes out and we are having a couple of drinks when we hear the rats...needless to say, 7 sheets of colour bond had to be replaced the next day or so as the old fella stumbled around screaming and shooting at things that “just won’t stay Fuggen still!”
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by marksman » 30 Apr 2020, 2:05 pm

funny story Tassie

l was given a 22 air rifle for my boy when he was younger from a farmer who had it when he was a young bloke
my boy shoots it occasionally but it is harder to shoot than his 22 or 17
what he prefers as an alternative to the air rifle is 6mm floberts or bb caps
they are very good for quiet work, l use them for pigeons and head shooting rabbits at no more than 35y
they work well but are exy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47pLfcSa1jk
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by gunnnie » 02 May 2020, 1:48 pm

Have begun playing around with a Weirarch HW100 22cal that I bought last year.
Trigger is great, breaking clean at about 1.5lb, which aids in the accuracy department.
I'm learning from more experience airgunners that I'll get better accuracy if I use a light or soft grip/hold on these rifles. Certainly is a change from shooting my other rifles. At least I can cut sick in my backyard with this rifle, a sanity saver in this CV lockdown BS.
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