Air rifles are weird.

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Supaduke » 15 Jan 2019, 4:15 pm

I use H&N Field Target Trophy in .177 to great effect.

Knocks minor birds for six and groups extremely accurately.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Dossa456 » 15 Jan 2019, 4:52 pm

Nothing flash mate
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jan 2019, 5:01 pm

Dossa456 wrote:Nothing flash mate


I think that's it! In fact, I'm certain that's it, I remember the plastic grip plate.
Norica 73 you say.
I'll have to do some research to see if they had other models that look similar, but I think I'll be looking for one of these very soon :-)
Thanks for taking the time to do that.

And you're in SA, it might even be my rifle, but I don't have any paperwork from back then :-)
I think it went to Victor Harbour about 1986.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Dossa456 » 15 Jan 2019, 5:16 pm

That’s okay mate; here is a snap of the receiver
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jan 2019, 7:42 pm

I just spent another hour in the gym :-)
I don't think more than 200-shot sessions are a good idea with a break-barrel springer!
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jan 2019, 9:18 pm

Very hot again today so I sat in the shade and shot some paper at 12.5m.
I started off with the A&P Pro-Pell and fired five sighters before putting groups on paper.
Three five-shot groups of 19.5mm, 38mm and 25mm.
Then Gamo Rockets gave me 23mm, 18mm and 29.5mm.
Gamo Red Fire gave me 19.5mm, 25.5mm and 23mm.
H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme gave me 18.5mm, 23mm and 23mm.
H&N Crow Magnum gave me 25mm, 15mm and 17mm.
H&N Field Target Trophy Green gave me 19.5mm, 15mm and 27mm. These shot well to the right by about 45mm over everything else - quite astonishing deviation over just 12.5m range.
H&N Field Target Trophy gave me 12.5mm, 17.5mm and 19mm. This one put the first shot on the aiming dot, then four in a group low right. The next ten also grouped low-right. I thought maybe this pellet needs one down the bore before it would group, so I went and put another one onto the first target and discounted the first shot. Including the first shot would make this group 26mm instead of 12.5mm.
H&N Hornet gave me 28mm, 22mm and 38.5mm, but I'm sure I remember pulling the last shot low - discounting that one narrows the group to 19.5mm.
H&R Baracuda Power gave me 25mm, 28.5mm and 22mm - these shot very high, about 35mm higher than everything else.
Gamo Armor gave me 13mm and 15.5mm.
Gamo Raptor gave me 24.5mm and 17mm.
Then I finished off with eight more groups of A&P Pro-Pell at 19.5mm, 30mm, 26.5mm, 59.5mm, 38.5mm, 38.5mm, 32.5mm and 53.5mm.
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The H&N Sampler pack cost me $26 and provides 30 of the Hornet, 35 of the Barracuda Hunter Extreme, Baracuda Power and Crow Magnum, and 40 of the two Field Target Trophy Pellets.
Prices online are:
Hornet $33 per 225.
Barracuda Hunter Extreme $24 per 400.
Baracuda Power $18 per 300.
Field Target Trophy $19 per 500.
Couldn't find prices for the Field Target Trophy Green or Crow Magnum.

The outrageously expensive Gamo Armor seems like an excellent choice for accuracy, but it's way out of my price bracket, and may not even be available here outside of the sample pack. The H&N Field Target Trophy deserves further testing I think, and I found Safari Arms do Geco pellets for $6 per 500, but are out of stock. At that price they are certainly worth trying. And I want to try the Eley and RWS offerings. And move the range out again to see how they go at longer ranges. Some of the H&N pellets are apparently optimised for 50m!

I think I'm getting a feel for the trigger, and improving my ability to shoot the thing. I'll hang onto the remains of the sample packs for when I have a nicer scope for it. I think I have about 450 pellets through it so far.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 15 Jan 2019, 10:32 pm

I can imagine after a couple of weeks of this your right arm will be all muscular........ atleast you are not single and 15.

But great and interesting and informative thread mate. Love the info ib this site everyday find something new
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Daddybang » 16 Jan 2019, 6:32 am

If you haven't already ya at the point where running a screwdriver over the action screws to make sure they haven't loosened up might be worthwhile. .I ended up putting loctite on mine. :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 16 Jan 2019, 2:53 pm

Ziad wrote:I can imagine after a couple of weeks of this your right arm will be all muscular........ atleast you are not single and 15.

But great and interesting and informative thread mate. Love the info ib this site everyday find something new


Towards the end yesterday I was having to use both arms to cock the damned thing :-)
For pellet testing somebody needs to invent a cocking winch like crossbows use!

I'm finding it interesting myself, I don't recall noticing the step from the springer air rifle to .22LR and .222Rem when I was a kid, but I'm now thinking those three years of air-rifle competition probably played a huge role in my future abilities with rifles. I can't recall shooting any air-rifle since 1985. Going backwards is a wake-up, this is almost like shooting the muzzleloader with the slight hesitation between pulling the trigger and the gun firing. I haven't looked inside it yet but the piston must be somewhat representative of a massive firing pin in a bolt-action rifle, something that weighs 500 grams and takes a very long run-up before hitting the primer :-)
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 16 Jan 2019, 2:55 pm

Daddybang wrote:If you haven't already ya at the point where running a screwdriver over the action screws to make sure they haven't loosened up might be worthwhile. .I ended up putting loctite on mine. :thumbsup: :drinks:


Very good point DB, I'll do that.
I've backed the trigger adjusting screw out about five turns now and it's getting pretty wobbly. I've been keeping an eye on that expecting it to fall out.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by wildcard6 » 18 Jan 2019, 12:34 pm

Couple of quick things. Yes, Air rifles are weird. One trick I've learned is not to hold the fore-end tight [almost not at all is best], because accuracy suffers if you hold onto it like a cartridge rifle. Second little thin, I started long-range rimfire shooting with a Hawke Vantage 3-9X scope [configured for HV ammo], but upgraded to a Vortex. I contacted Hawke Optics in UK who said I could use that Vantage scope on a spring-type gun without destroying it. It lacks the AO you get on an AirMax scope from Hawke, but it does the job okay and I already had the scope, so saved me $330 or so for ANOTHER scope. My air gun is a Diana 340 N-tec gas-ram gun and it shoots the H&N Terminators like you wouldn't believe. H&N pellets get my vote. Last thing; yes the RPR rimfire has a 30MOA rail!
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jan 2019, 5:24 pm

wildcard6 wrote:Couple of quick things. Yes, Air rifles are weird. One trick I've learned is not to hold the fore-end tight [almost not at all is best], because accuracy suffers if you hold onto it like a cartridge rifle. Second little thin, I started long-range rimfire shooting with a Hawke Vantage 3-9X scope [configured for HV ammo], but upgraded to a Vortex. I contacted Hawke Optics in UK who said I could use that Vantage scope on a spring-type gun without destroying it. It lacks the AO you get on an AirMax scope from Hawke, but it does the job okay and I already had the scope, so saved me $330 or so for ANOTHER scope. My air gun is a Diana 340 N-tec gas-ram gun and it shoots the H&N Terminators like you wouldn't believe. H&N pellets get my vote. Last thing; yes the RPR rimfire has a 30MOA rail!


Thanks Wildcard6.
I won't be spending a hundred bucks on a scope for the air rifle :-)
The eight-dollar scope I have on it now actually does everything I need it to do already, and if it were all I had I could certainly live with it. I'd like something with some nicer glass, but restricting the range to about 30m obviates the need for anything really good or anything other than a simple crosshair, or even a variable focus. I particularly dislike AO scopes, I much prefer a side-focus adjustment, but for shooting in a window of only about 20m at most I don't see any need for the adjustment at all.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Growler » 19 Jan 2019, 2:31 pm

My first sluggy was a BSA Meteor "high powered" in .177. (34 years ago?) I could hit bottle tops consistently from 30 odd meters. In saying that I used to shoot coke cans until they were cut in half. I'd spend all weekend sitting on the verandah plinking away. For the life of me I cant remember what brand slugs they were, but were around $2 for a tin of 500. From 5m i actually shot a bee in flight. Mates were witnesses and I was the king hahahahaha. I also from 10m shot a fly that was on the target we were shooting. The legs were still on the paper, King of the sluggy back to back. My old man bought me A Diana mod 52 (.22) for passing year 9. I was never as accurate with that, but nailed many starlings out to about 40m up in trees. Ive been looking at them and they are still $800 new. My old man paid around $700 for it in 1985 I reckon. I wouldn't spend that much now. But if i could find a BSA Meteor again, I'd grab it.
EDIT: Never had a scope for them
Just the necessity
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2019, 6:00 pm

I managed another testing session yesterday, about 360 pellets!
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I've tried five scopes on the Crosman so far, and while I'm still finding the little 4x20 Chinese thing to be the most enjoyable, I've got a Bushnell 6-24x40 on it currently. I used a laser on the barrel to boresight it and I left it on for the first hour or so, just in case I wanted to change the scope. The bore had had 636 pellets through it at this point - no cleaning.
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I shot a ten-shot group to settle the barrel with each pellet, then a second ten-shot group. It did tend to show a better second group, so if you use different pellets it's worth checking zero when changing. Before I fired the first group on paper I fired one or two off to the side to check that the pellet would be on the paper. Most were shot initially aimed at the top "8"

I finished off the A&P Pro-Pell's the other day so I started off with the H&N Field Target Trophy. I fired ten just to set the barrel, then put ten onto paper. But I aimed at the centre of the target which is a very coarse aim point, especially at 12.5m and 24-power, and it went 25.5mm. So I put the second group aimed at the black dot in the bottom loop of the top "8" into 19.5mm.
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Then the H&N Finale Match Heavy into 44mm and 18mm groups, showing immediate credence to the barrel liking to bed in a new pellet before shooting well. These were shooting well right so were aimed at the lower loop of the "8" on the left of the target.
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Next was the Gamo Sniper Magnum at 29mm and 14mm (nine shots as I pulled one). These were well left so were aimed at the lower loop of the "5" on the right side of the target.
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The Gamo Rocket shot 38mm and 20.5mm groups.
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Gamo Red Fire went 29.5mm and 34.5mm.
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H&N Crow Magnum went 25mm (9 shots, I pulled one) and 22mm.
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I only had eighteen H&N Hornets left, so I shot an eight-shot group of 25mm, then a five-shot group of 24mm. Then I removed the laser from the barrel and fired another five-shot group. The first shot went wild but the next four went into 17.5mm. Point of aim only changed by about 5-10mm upwards with removing the laser.
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H&N Barracude Hunter Extreme went 28.5mm and 17mm.
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RWS Diablo Basic went 32.5mm and 16mm.
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RWS R10 Match 7gn 4.50mm went 18.5mm and 19mm, and then I had a play and shot a group with the pellets reversed into 39.5mm. The third shot was very hard to chamber and then went way wide so may have been deformed, which might've reduced the group to 32.5mm for nine shots.
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RWS SuperMag went 33mm and 20mm.
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It was getting difficult to see the black reticle over the black dot in the "8" now so I moved up to aim at the lower loop of the top "6" instead.

RWS Superdome went 25mm and 28mm.
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RWS Powerball went 12.5mm and 12mm - very impressed with these but will likely find them unavailable in Oz with my luck.
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At this point it was getting quite dark so I started shooting double groups on one card to save time, aiming at the lower loops of the "6" on each side of the target..

RWS SuperPoint Extra went 30.5mm and 29.5mm.
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RWS SuperField went 20mm and 18mm.
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And H&N Field Target Green went 30mm and 20mm, and were very loud, I think they went supersonic.
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I noticed the moon was well up, I could hardly make out the target, and the mozzies were pissing me off so I quit.
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I had left the three "alloy" pellets to last so as not to mix them with lead but ran out of light. It was way too wet and windy today to finish them so I sat inside and collated this lot. Those are the Gamo Armor and Raptor and the H&N Barracuda Power.

The standouts for today are the RWS Powerball and the Gamo Sniper Magnum, with the RWS Diablo Basic worth another look I think.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 25 Apr 2020, 10:21 pm

I did a quick pellet test this week.
Eley TenexAir 4.50mm at 12.5m managed a 5rd 8.5mm group, and a 15.5mm 10rd group.
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Eley Ventus 4.51mm managed a 5rd 10mm group.
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RWS Hobby managed a 5rd 10.5mm group.
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The Eley shot nicely but I had a bad taste in my mouth after discovering both boxes had been opened for testing. They're 450 pellet boxes, but the Tenex only had 404 pellets, the Ventus only 421 pellets. On a $500 ammo order I got ripped off about $3.00 worth of pellets, but I won't be spending any more with that dealer. I'm putting it down to a simple mistake, but it should never have happened that boxes from his testing ended up back on the shelf for sale.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 25 Apr 2020, 10:24 pm

And I finished off with H&N Field Target Trophy for a baseline.
A neat 5rd 7mm group, and a 10rd 15mm group to finish off, then I put a few dozen more pellets on some steels for fun :-)
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by AussieCapitalist » 27 Apr 2020, 5:53 pm

Yeah I agree mate, they are weird. People can do what they like but I would just use a 22 with subsonic ammo if I needed an air rifle.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 27 Apr 2020, 6:10 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:Yeah I agree mate, they are weird. People can do what they like but I would just use a 22 with subsonic ammo if I needed an air rifle.


Me too, but they do have some uses, particularly where you don't want the bullet to travel more than a couple hundred meters, up into trees for example and in the farm sheds. And the air-rifle is incredibly cheap plinking at close range - about $10 for 500 shots is tough to beat.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by rc42 » 28 Apr 2020, 9:48 am

One real advantage of an air rifle, especially in .177, is that you can shoot upwards, maybe toward a tree, with no concern about where the pellet will end up as it will eventually stop climbing and fall like a extra tiny (8 grain) hailstone and do no damage no matter what it hits.

Obviously care should be taken with any firearm to ensure that projectiles never leave your property but that's easier with air rifles than any other type.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 12:36 pm

rc42 wrote:One real advantage of an air rifle, especially in .177, is that you can shoot upwards, maybe toward a tree, with no concern about where the pellet will end up as it will eventually stop climbing and fall like a extra tiny (8 grain) hailstone and do no damage no matter what it hits.

Obviously care should be taken with any firearm to ensure that projectiles never leave your property but that's easier with air rifles than any other type.


Haha...!!

Cool...!!
Lets all go out & start shooting sh!t in the air then... :clap: :lol:

You say that in a way that youre almost implying other projectiles fired from cartridges using gunpowder as a proppellant, keep going upwards & leave our atmosphere...
Gees can you imagine the amount of #4's & #7's lead shot circling the earth from all those missed clays & ducks... :lol: :lol: :clap:

Also, while im no astro physicist, to my mind, given lead has a density (or mass) thats in the vicinity of ten times that of ice, & given that bulk density difference, will likely impart a greater force on a smaller area of the eyeball of the poor sod your cowboy & indian escapades result in hitting...

:lol: :lol:

Having said that, seeing you in a debate with GCA would make for good entertainment...they say fighting fire with fire is logical... :clap: :lol: ...

:) :drinks:
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2020, 1:29 pm

Stix wrote:[quote="rc42"One real advantage of an air rifle, especially in .177, is that you can shoot upwards, maybe toward a tree, with no concern about where the pellet will end up as it will eventually stop climbing and fall like a extra tiny (8 grain) hailstone and do no damage no matter what it hits.

Obviously care should be taken with any firearm to ensure that projectiles never leave your property but that's easier with air rifles than any other type.[/quote

Haha...!!

Cool...!!
Lets all go out & start shooting sh!t in the air then... :clap: :lol:

You say that in a way that youre almost implying other projectiles fired from cartridges using gunpowder as a proppellant, keep going upwards & leave our atmosphere...
Gees can you imagine the amount of #4's & #7's lead shot circling the earth from all those missed clays & ducks... :lol: :lol: :clap:

Also, while im no astro physicist, to my mind, given lead has a density (or mass) thats in the vicinity of ten times that of ice, & given that bulk density difference, will likely impart a greater force on a smaller area of the eyeball of the poor sod your cowboy & indian escapades result in hitting...

:lol: :lol:

Having said that, seeing you in a debate with GCA would make for good entertainment...they say fighting fire with fire is logical... :clap: :lol: ...

:) :drinks:


He is saying that for shooting birds and rats out of trees an air-rifle can be a safer choice because the pellet is going to land somewhere within a couple hundred meters even if you miss the target. A .22LR, even subsonic is likely to go hundreds of meters, perhaps a thousand meters in ideal conditions. Birdshot is another good choice as it falls to ground inside a couple hundred meters also, but 12ga. is an expensive way to deal with pest birds.

As for density, 8gn is still 8gn whether it's a lead pellet or a rain drop, and at 200m it's down to maybe 6-7ft-lb of energy (roughly similar to a 40gn .22LR subsonic at 900m) and 560fps. It requires (from memory) 300-ish fps to penetrate human skin, so it still is still somewhat dangerous, but at least it's easier to manage the danger zone due to the reduced range.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 1:45 pm

Yes...i get all that...sorry the attempt at humour is missed... :unknown:
:)

I really dont believe he thinks astronauts wear heavy visors while space walking because of the vast amounts of lead shot in orbit...

And i understand the weight/mass vs make-up debate...
But my little bit of seriousness in there was saying id rather be hit by a large object weighing "X' kg's, than an object of the same mass & velocity but that has a bulk density 10 ormore times greater.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by rc42 » 28 Apr 2020, 3:40 pm

Airgun pellets have a ballistic coefficient about one fifth of that for a 22LR and about half that of a shotgun 'pellet', once out of the barrel they slow down much faster than either of those.
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc and come back to ground with dangerous energy, they start to arc but lose virtually all horizontal velocity and just drop like a tiny hailstone (except slower because of the pellet tail that is designed like a shuttlecock to create drag and being hollow with air inside they have a low mass for their volume and forward surface area).

Airgun pellets and shot shell fired into the air aren't dangerous when falling down again, unless you're unlucky enough to be looking up and one lands in your eye but even then it would just hurt a bit with no damage. 'real' bullet projectiles travel further and faster, are heavier and have a higher terminal velocity even when just falling, they are much more dangerous.


In any case, nobody should discharge any firearm in any direction without knowing where the projectile could land.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 4:07 pm

rc42 wrote:Airgun pellets ... ... ...
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc .


Can you demonstrate this to me in a graphic based on Einsteins theory of time & space being of the one continuum--ie: the fabric of spacetime... :unknown: :huh: :problem:

I bet you cant...!!!... :lol:

(Dont get your nickers all stinky now--im just mucking around, even if it is true...!!... :lol: )
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2020, 8:12 pm

I was testing more .22LR ammo this arvo, so I took the air-rifle with me and tried it at 50m.
I was very surprised and will have to play with it a lot more at longer ranges.
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Apr 2020, 10:00 pm

I think some air rifle pellets are like my mates RC chopper he bought for $399.
It was blowing outside - he took out his brand new RC heli, got the family round, gave it full throttle and pressed the up control...it went vertical at 100mph...got 100m up and the wind got it and we never saw it again - it was out of range but stayed at full throttle. It definitely didn’t stay on the property lol. Mind you - I was crying with laughter for hours as he was crying at his wallet.

But on topic - over last 2 years I’ve had 3 break barrel air rifles in .177 for back yard plunking, birds etc. I bought 2 new (Vmax game was $299, dianna was $350 and bsa was $400) and 1 second hand.

I’ve now sold all of them - consistently was not there and drove me round the twist testing scopes, pellets, etc. I couldn’t get anything resembling consistent accuracy 30-50m. All of these were meant to be over 1000fps - so 30-50m should have been doable.
A friend bought a $2500 air compressor rifle and tbh, even that doesn’t come close to moa on a regular basis and it’s now a safe queen.
Now when I was a kid, I seem to recall hitting matchboxes and smaller at semi .22 ranges With my pump up .177 so I’m not sure how/why, but it seems as if accuracy has dropped off in the last 30 years...at least on the budget air rifles I tried.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
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TassieTiger
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bladeracer » 28 Apr 2020, 10:27 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I think some air rifle pellets are like my mates RC chopper he bought for $399.
It was blowing outside - he took out his brand new RC heli, got the family round, gave it full throttle and pressed the up control...it went vertical at 100mph...got 100m up and the wind got it and we never saw it again - it was out of range but stayed at full throttle. It definitely didn’t stay on the property lol. Mind you - I was crying with laughter for hours as he was crying at his wallet.

But on topic - over last 2 years I’ve had 3 break barrel air rifles in .177 for back yard plunking, birds etc. I bought 2 new (Vmax game was $299, dianna was $350 and bsa was $400) and 1 second hand.

I’ve now sold all of them - consistently was not there and drove me round the twist testing scopes, pellets, etc. I couldn’t get anything resembling consistent accuracy 30-50m. All of these were meant to be over 1000fps - so 30-50m should have been doable.
A friend bought a $2500 air compressor rifle and tbh, even that doesn’t come close to moa on a regular basis and it’s now a safe queen.
Now when I was a kid, I seem to recall hitting matchboxes and smaller at semi .22 ranges With my pump up .177 so I’m not sure how/why, but it seems as if accuracy has dropped off in the last 30 years...at least on the budget air rifles I tried.


When I was a kid I was shooting air-rifle competition with PCYC every week, open sights, prone, unsupported. I think it was only 10m as it was inside a building, but I'm sure my targets were just a single ragged hole. I think I just don't have that thirteen-year-old's enthusiasm to strive for that level of accuracy after forty years of living in the real world, and I certainly don't have that kid's eyesight anymore :-)

I was also on the small bore team in Army Cadets so was doing a decent amount of competition shooting for a kid, even back then. There weren't many days I didn't do some shooting in the back yard as well, in suburban Perth.
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bladeracer
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Apr 2020, 10:38 pm

So it might not just be my failing memory BR lol...

I just couldn’t get anything consistent and it’s a similar story with friends who buy a plinker...seeing your results are very interesting...maybe the quest for speed has messed up some space time air rifle continuum...
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by Stix » 28 Apr 2020, 11:44 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: LMFAO....!!!!!!

Ah tummy muscles i forgot about hurt... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well i could fair dinkum hit a starling in the eye out to 20m with old Walther target air rifle when i was a kid... :clap: :thumbsup:
Maybe its the break barrels that break that continuum... :lol:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Air rifles are weird.

Post by bigrich » 29 Apr 2020, 6:10 pm

[quote="Stix" Airgun pellets ... ... ...
If fired at an upward angle they don't arc .[/quote]

Can you demonstrate this to me in a graphic based on Einsteins theory of time & space being of the one continuum--ie: the fabric of spacetime... :unknown: :huh: :problem:

I bet you cant...!!!... :lol:

(Dont get your nickers all stinky now--im just mucking around, even if it is true...!!... :lol: )[/quote]

i would demonstrate it for ya stix, but i;m busy installing a flux capacitor to my deisel toyota ........ ;)

i bin thinkin' about a air rifle lately , quiet , cheap shootin' . a mate has rats at his place , a plinkin' session might be fun :P
i've got a loan of one, and little green plastic army men have been decimated , as have aluminium cans and other "reactive targets " :D

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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