Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by rc42 » 27 Jul 2019, 10:40 pm

CCI Quiet should out perform any standard .22 air rifle, the lead bullet is 40 grains with a muzzle velocity of 700 fps and about 45 ft lbs, a typical .22 air rifle will be 12 ft lbs with a 15 grain pellet. The more powerful PCPs can also deliver a lot of power and would probably out perform the CCI Quiet but they are expensive guns and shot count on an air tank goes down fast as power goes up, also, if you're using a hand pump you'll end up with arms like Popeye.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/products ... loadNo=960

Might be worth borrowing a .22 at a local range and doing some 50m target testing to check accuracy and grouping with CCI Quiet, they are about $8 for 50 which should be OK unless you are either over run with rabbits or a terrible shot.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 8:26 am

rc42 wrote:CCI Quiet should out perform any standard .22 air rifle, the lead bullet is 40 grains with a muzzle velocity of 700 fps and about 45 ft lbs, a typical .22 air rifle will be 12 ft lbs with a 15 grain pellet.


There is no question that the Quiet 22LR round has a much higher ballistic coefficient — it does. But it also droops more and/or becomes inconsistent after 30m. Here is a comment from a guy who should know, the Aussie Youtuber "Meathead Marksman":

I'm aware that my CZ455 Lux II is more capable then what I use it for, I just didn't buy it with the intention of 100m shooting, I bought it because it has a long barrel and that coupled with the super quiet "CCI Quiet 40gr LRN" ammo that I use in it makes it extremely quiet to use. Great for hunting/plinking on small acreage when you don't wanna bother the neighbors. The CCI Quiet only runs about 670fps and is too under powered and inconsistent for anything past about 30 to 40m, it's much much slower, quieter and less consistent then normal subsonic 22lr..... That is 100% why I have PCP airguns, especially the FX guns. They are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more accurate and consistent then any 22lr that is actually quiet enough without a silencer. The power wheel is basically a volume knob if you tune the gun properly. I almost never use my other guns anymore... the only thing I wanna play with is my FX Impact haha
Last edited by ramshackle on 28 Jul 2019, 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by xcb » 28 Jul 2019, 10:10 am

I think the PCP would be great on a small acerage.

I had some opposite requirements to you with me choosing a springer: I like how the springer is difficult to shoot accurately, a PCP would be too easy, If I can somehow learn how to shoot the springer accurately then that should make it easier for me to shoot a .22LR accurately, or a centrefire if I can learn to deal with the recoil.

This is the video that convinced me to choose the SWFA SS 16x42 scope:

https://youtu.be/CYydF_Vo3cM

He explains how the fixed power scopes have less lenses so they let more light through. The 12X has a larger exit pupil so it will be better than the 16X in low light.

Its a great PCP hunting channel. I have a vague memory that on one of the videos he says he likes the Air Arms PCP rifles as they are made to be maintainable.

I don't know much about PCPs. I really like them. My impression is they would be cheap to shoot, since pellets are even cheaper than .22LR ammo. They seem expensive to get into though. I think it will cost about $500 to import the 12x fixed SWFA SS scope. A scope mount or scope rings would cost about $100.

I thought there was a concern that using a manual pump would introduce condensation which may be harmful to the rifle, however, I don't really know, you would need to research this.

To make the shots more consistent some PCP enthusiasts like to install regulators (another expense), you might want to check if a regulator is available for the rifle you are choosing in case you might want to fit one later:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjwHxZU1tsc
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 10:28 am

xcb wrote:If I can somehow learn how to shoot the springer accurately then that should make it easier for me to shoot a .22LR accurately, or a centrefire if I can learn to deal with the recoil.


I've owned numerous centrefire rifles and I am not looking to learn how to deal with recoil at this stage of my life, been there done that. I want QUIET and DISCREET and also ACCURATE. And preferably not dangerous, which 22LR is compared to 22 pellet.

This is the video that convinced me to choose the SWFA SS 16x42 scope: https://youtu.be/CYydF_Vo3cM


Yup I was sold on a SWFA by exactly the same video! Wow, how strange! :wtf:

I decided to go down to the 12x when I heard that many military snipers use a fixed 10x scope, and they shoot out to hundreds of metres. With 16x your field of view becomes very small. And as you say, more light with the 12x

Its a great PCP hunting channel. I have a vague memory that on one of the videos he says he likes the Air Arms PCP rifles as they are made to be maintainable.


Matt Dubber is virtually an employee of FX. I take a lot of what he says with a pinch of salt. :| Air Arms are very expensive

My impression is they would be cheap to shoot, since pellets are even cheaper than .22LR ammo.


Yes they are cheaper from a consumables POV.

I think it will cost about $500 to import the 12x fixed SWFA SS scope. A scope mount or scope rings would cost about $100.


US$300 + shipping + rings

I thought there was a concern that using a manual pump would introduce condensation which may be harmful to the rifle, however, I don't really know, you would need to research this.


AFAIK the pumps come with a little in-line filter, like a cigarette filter, that absorbs the water. https://youtu.be/LH88OLcwSMw

To make the shots more consistent some PCP enthusiasts like to install regulators (another expense)


Good PCP rifles come with regulators installed.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by xcb » 28 Jul 2019, 11:45 am

ramshackle wrote:
xcb wrote:I think it will cost about $500 to import the 12x fixed SWFA SS scope. A scope mount or scope rings would cost about $100.


US$300 + shipping + rings

It does not come with lens caps, so plus 15.95 if you want them, then shipping was $75.40 for one scope and the lens caps almost 2 years ago. So my estimate was a bit low, sorry, as the exchange rate is worse now. Saying an exchange rate of .66 (where every time I do a payment in foreign currency on paypal I have to change the settings to make the payment in the foreign currency to avoid the expensive paypal exchange rate, and my big 4 bank adds their high exchange fee) my estimate is 391.30 / 0.66 is approximately $593 (for the scope and lens caps),
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 12:04 pm

xcb wrote:approximately $593 (for the scope and lens caps),


Major buzzkill, xcb! :cry:

Still, I have some USD in my PayPal account, so I'll find a way.

It's always more expensive than you think it will be. :thumbsdown:
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Jul 2019, 1:58 pm

Of course things are cheaper in the U.S. our $$ only running around 69c and then we have all the other taxes to add onto shipping/import costs etc and no doubt a ****** of other hidden taxes we have to pay too.

If it was me I'd just buy from your local gun shop that way when something goes wrong you can take it back and have it delt with there without having to be stuffed around if you bought it interstate and the shipping etc that that would involve.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 2:02 pm

@bigfellascott, that is a definite consideration. I am very inclined to deal with gunshops here in the SE Qld area first and foremost.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Jul 2019, 2:05 pm

ramshackle wrote:@bigfellascott, that is a definite consideration. I am very inclined to deal with gunshops here in the SE Qld area first and foremost.


Makes life a lot easier if you do have issues mate. I'd do as other have said and work out what you want to own and then get them to order it in. :drinks:
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 4:12 pm

You know, I was enquiring at the GunRoom about the Umarex Gauntlet and the Turkish Kral range, both of which are out of stock at GunRoom but they have large consignments apparently sitting in Australia under Border Force control .... endlessly waiting for release from quarantine so they can be sold.

This endless wait for the rifles to be released is discouraging, and is pushing me away from air rifles.

The things that would push me to buy a 22LR rimfire are:

  1. High prices for air rifles, often much higher than rimfires
  2. This waiting for imports to be released. Their delay in release seems almost spiteful
  3. The fact that a rimfire rifle can also use fast ammo that is accurate over a longer distance, not only the short-range CCI Quiet stuff. So if I wish, I can do more with the rimfire, which I cannot do with the pellet gun
  4. The fact that the rimfire is made by a well established, reputable company like CZ or Browning, for instance. It's a quality piece of kit that will last generations. Many PCP rifles are prone to numerous problems, even the expensive ones like FX (some dealers in the US won't even sell FX anymore because of the high return rate). PCPs are loaded with rubber O-rings that are prone to failure.
  5. The fact that I can get stainless steel rimfire rifles. No stainless in air rifles, and I live in an area where everything rusts like hell!
  6. The fact that you need all sorts of ancillary kit with the air rifle, like pumps. And then the hard grind of pumping it up.
Just playing devil's advocate here .... thinking aloud. Hope you don't mind :silent:

Before I decide to buy a rimfire though, I'm going to have to accept that I will be shooting at 40m max (because I have to use slow, "Quiet" ammo here). And be super-aware of my backstop.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by GQshayne » 28 Jul 2019, 7:05 pm

My Dad bought a HW30 from the Gun Room after lots of good advice from them. Very nice rifle, no extra compressor costs etc either. Can't remember the price but with scope and mounts and some pellets I think it was about $900 all up.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jul 2019, 7:32 pm

xcb wrote:
ramshackle wrote:
xcb wrote:I think it will cost about $500 to import the 12x fixed SWFA SS scope. A scope mount or scope rings would cost about $100.


US$300 + shipping + rings

It does not come with lens caps, so plus 15.95 if you want them, then shipping was $75.40 for one scope and the lens caps almost 2 years ago. So my estimate was a bit low, sorry, as the exchange rate is worse now. Saying an exchange rate of .66 (where every time I do a payment in foreign currency on paypal I have to change the settings to make the payment in the foreign currency to avoid the expensive paypal exchange rate, and my big 4 bank adds their high exchange fee) my estimate is 391.30 / 0.66 is approximately $593 (for the scope and lens caps),


When you say two years ago, was it before April 2017, when ITAR screwed up US exports?
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 28 Jul 2019, 8:28 pm

I think you cannot import a scope due to ITAR plus need a import permit. Plus plenty of local options. Tbh I have gotten a few good second hand steals of scopes.. like a 12x42x nightforce for 1k, or a Leopold 8x25 for $550. And with lifetime warranty on good scopes I won't bother.

Anyway I have shot my 22lr using eley standard that is just above subsonic, and it...as not too loud.. the wife cannot hear me shooting in the house. Plenty cheap and accurate. If you have a slight height advantage then I don't think you will have any issues shooting 100m rabbits with a 22lr.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by pomemax » 28 Jul 2019, 9:05 pm

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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by xcb » 28 Jul 2019, 9:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:When you say two years ago, was it before April 2017, when ITAR screwed up US exports?

It was after that in Oct 2017, and a second order in Jun 2018. I guess SWFA must be willing to do the ITAR paper work for a select group of countries on their SWFA SS scopes. We can't just place an order on their website, we have to email the order so that SWFA can provide the shipping quote (via UPS, shipping is expensive) and do the export paper work. I'm glad they are willing to take orders for the SS fixed scopes.
At the time the only other fixed power scope in fairly high power option I knew of that should survive on a springer was the Leupold FX-3 Silhouette, I could not afford it, I notice that Leupold have stopped making them now. (Edit: Also the FX-3 Silhoutte was not suitable as it could only focus down to 50 yards).
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 9:46 pm

From the SWFA site:

SWFA, Inc. now to exports to the Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom only. International customers should contact International@SWFA.com for all inquiries and special order instructions.

https://www.swfa.com/exportpolicy
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 3:40 am

Ziad wrote:I think you cannot import a scope due to ITAR plus need a import permit. Plus plenty of local options. Tbh I have gotten a few good second hand steals of scopes.. like a 12x42x nightforce for 1k, or a Leopold 8x25 for $550. And with lifetime warranty on good scopes I won't bother.

Anyway I have shot my 22lr using eley standard that is just above subsonic, and it...as not too loud.. the wife cannot hear me shooting in the house. Plenty cheap and accurate. If you have a slight height advantage then I don't think you will have any issues shooting 100m rabbits with a 22lr.


You don't need import permits for scopes. You might need export permits, I'm not sure if the US considers scopes to be firearm parts. Many scopes are caught by ITAR making them very difficult to export.

Yep, I agree with you. There are some very limited situations where the short ballistic range and lack of energy can make an air-rifle a good choice, noise is not one of the air-rifles major advantages though.

Bulk pellets are certainly cheaper than .22LR ammo, but the exotic pellets that are likely required for those 80m shots are crazy expensive.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 5:47 am

ramshackle wrote:Before I decide to buy a rimfire though, I'm going to have to accept that I will be shooting at 40m max (because I have to use slow, "Quiet" ammo here). And be super-aware of my backstop.


I think you are selling .22LR well short here, 700fps .22LR ammo is quite capable of taking small game out to 100m, as long as you are getting the required accuracy. Accuracy will limit your range, not the energy of the bullet, or the trajectory - if you have the accuracy to make a precision hit the bullet will do a lot more damage than a pellet. Anybody that confines themselves to 40m max because of the trajectory curve needs to learn to shoot.

CCI Quiet 40gn 710fps trajectory - I'll assume a 30m zero as being a decent start for close-range shooting:
First zero is at 11.5m
It peaks 10mm high at 20m
It zeros at 30m
At 40m it's 19mm low with 42ft-lbs and 690fps - a 10mph wind deflects it 19mm
At 50m it's 88mm low
At 60m it's 165mm low
At 70m it's 265mm low
At 80m it's 390mm low
At 90m it's 540mm low
At 100m it's 710mm low with 38ft-lbs and 650fps

A .177" 7.9gn pellet at 1000fps is virtually identical:
First zero is at 17m
It peaks 3mm high at 23m
It zeros at 30m
At 40m it's 19mm low with 10ft-lbs and 740fps - a 10mph wind deflects it 120mm
At 50m it's 58mm low
At 60m it's 119mm low
At 70m it's 205mm low
At 80m it's 320mm low
At 90m it's 465mm low
At 100m it's 650mm low with 5ft-lbs and 500fps

A .22" 21gn pellet at 800fps:
First zero is at 12.5m
It peaks 10mm high at 21m
It zeros at 30m
At 40m it's 28mm low with 21ft-lbs and 680fps - a 10mph wind deflects it 70mm
At 50m it's 80mm low
At 60m it's 155mm low
At 70m it's 258mm low
At 80m it's 390mm low
At 90m it's 560mm low
At 100m it's 760mm low with 5ft-lbs and 500fps

In trajectory, there really is nothing between the three.
I extended the chart range to 1500m, and made it shoot into the air at 35-degrees, and, just to see what the three are absolutely capable of, I assume you're shooting from the top of a hill:
The CCI Quiet 40gn at 710fps will go around 1335m...if you're shooting into the sky on top of a 1200ft hill - on level ground, shooting into the sky, it'll reach about 1110m max.
The .177" 7.9gn pellet at 1000fps will go around 375m...if you're on a 220ft hill, on level ground about 330m max.
The .22" 21gn pellet at 800fps will go 515m...if you're on top of a 200ft hill. On flat ground, it'll hit the ground about 440m away.

Shooting rabbits across level ground dictates that the bullet/pellet is going to hit the ground behind the target if you miss, or penetrate through a rabbit/fox. As you're likely to be shooting at targets less than one-metre above the ground, even at 100m the bullet/pellet is going to hit the ground around the 120-150m mark on a miss, very much closer on a pass-through. The bullet/pellet is then going to ricochet off the ground, deformed, tumbling, and lacking velocity. In the three examples above, I doubt they're going to injure or damage anything further than about 300m away even if you miss your target completely. With CCI Std Vel 40gn at 1080fps I shoot a lot of steel silhouettes, which means lots of misses while I work out the wind. They are positioned on top of the dam wall at 180m. My misses pass over the dam and fall in a neat area about 350m away from me. They are hitting the ground well before that, and probably bouncing several times before stopping there. Shooting at 180m I'm aiming up about 0.6-degrees, or a metre high at 100m, plus about two-metres of dam wall.

My own testing has the CCI Quiet penetrating a corrugated steel shed out to around 165m, although it was cracking the steel out to 180m. At that range it is making around 34ft-lbs and 620fps.
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