What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

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What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 03 Aug 2019, 7:19 am

It's on their newest products, like the CZ 457. I asked my LGS and he didn't know, and when he asked the CZ agent he got a vague answer.

I wrote to CZ and they responded:

Dear Sir;

Thank you for your interest into CZ heating treatment process.

Bobox is our own heating treatment with anti-corrosive effect. The difference between Bobox and Ceracotum is that our surface treatment goes deeper into the steel during heat treatment, so our layer is deeper and finish is retained even when the firearm is scratched.

Yours faithfully,
Milan Trkulja
Marketing


"Ceracotum" I presume refers to Cerakote. Now Cerakote is a spray on polymer-ceramic coating, so I'm not sure why he's comparing an add-on spray to a heat treatment.

Cerakote video

I'll write back and try to get more details. Anyone know more?
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by bladeracer » 03 Aug 2019, 9:07 am

From "Bobox" I would guess it's an oxide of something, maybe boron or boric acid?
Last edited by bladeracer on 03 Aug 2019, 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 03 Aug 2019, 10:48 am

bladeracer wrote:From "Bobox" I would guess it's an oxide of something, maybe boron or boric acid?


I suspect you are correct.

There is a journal called "Thermochemical Surface Engineering of Steels" that has a 2015 paper entitled "The thermo-reactive deposition and diffusion process for coating steels to improve wear resistance" that describes a high temperature borax bath carbide coating.

There is also something called a nickel-boron (NiB) “electroless” gun coating, applied chemically. I don't think this is what a Bobox treatment entails.

The CZ rep told my LGS that the treatment is added to the metal "while the metal is in a liquid state", so I suspect this could be more of a borate application, where borates are added to steel (or aluminium) to produce hard, corrosion-resistant alloys.

I've emailed back and asked for more details.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 03 Aug 2019, 11:20 am

It's interesting that the rep's description of a metallurgical alloying does not agree with the email I got, which describes a treatment applied after casting.

Hopefully I will get more info next week from CZ.

I was looking at their 2019 catalogue, and even that is very vague about the surface treatment. I don't see the point in being coy about what they are doing, unless it's a previously unknown, commercial-in-confidence, patented process.

I mean, if they are using a state of the art process that gives a top-notch result, why not be upfront and clear about it?
Last edited by ramshackle on 04 Aug 2019, 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by on_one_wheel » 03 Aug 2019, 11:31 am

ramshackle wrote:"Ceracotum" I presume refers to Cerakote. Now Cerakote is a spray on polymer-ceramic coating, so I'm not sure why he's comparing an add-on spray coating


I recon that he's alluding to the fact that along with the heat treatment there is also some type of coating added at a high temperature.

Probably some type of secret formula applied with a dynamic particle thrust modulator in a hydrolasator unit.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 03 Aug 2019, 11:58 am

on_one_wheel wrote:Probably some type of secret formula applied with a dynamic particle thrust modulator in a hydrolasator unit.


We'll see how much I can get out of the manufacturer next week. I must say, if I'm dropping a cool ~$1,000 on a couple of kilos of steel, I really want to know more about surface protection than, as CZ's new catalogue states: "[CZ rifles] are treated with one of the most durable treatments on the market". That's it.

Image

BTW, their 2019 US catalogue does not even mention surface treatments!
https://cdn.cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-conten ... atalog.pdf
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Aug 2019, 8:26 pm

Is it some kind of Titanium alloy Ion plating which is applied in a vacuum?
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 04 Aug 2019, 8:49 am

SCJ429 wrote:Is it some kind of Titanium alloy Ion plating which is applied in a vacuum?


Even the fact that you have to make guesses like this shows you that it's not acceptable for CZ, or any company, to hide the details of a fundamental quality of the weapon. As consumers, we have every right to know what "Bobox" means, in detail.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2019, 8:55 am

ramshackle wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:Is it some kind of Titanium alloy Ion plating which is applied in a vacuum?


Even the fact that you have to make guesses like this shows you that it's not acceptable for CZ, or any company, to hide the details of a fundamental quality of the weapon. As consumers, we have every right to know what "Bobox" means, in detail.


I disagree, although I agree it would be nice to know.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Aug 2019, 9:50 am

KFC's 7 secret herbs and spices must annoy the hell out of you.

Most people don't bang on the counter demanding to know what they are, they just order the chicken and enjoy it.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 04 Aug 2019, 10:01 am

on_one_wheel wrote:KFC's 7 secret herbs and spices must annoy the hell out of you. Most people don't bang on the counter demanding to know what they are, they just order the chicken and enjoy it.


Look at the difference in prices. Although a rifle and a bucket of chicken weigh the same, one costs 100x more than the other. :roll:
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 04 Aug 2019, 10:10 am

bladeracer wrote:Recipes and inventions are private intellectual property protected by law so as not to be exploited by others that did not put in the research to discover or develop something.


You're assuming this is a propriety, perhaps even patented formulation. We have no evidence of that. It's not referred to as "Bobox®" or "Bobox™".

And BTW, can you point to any other surface protection that is secret? I mean look at Cerakote — we know what that entails. Nitriding as well, we understand it. We know that Tufftride ™ and Tenifer™ and Melonite™ are all forms of ferritic nitrocarburizing. CZ's "Arcor" is just nitriding.

I don't think I can name a surface treatment or coating that is a black box .... except Bobox. :unknown:

Maybe it's unAustralian to ask too many questions. "We're Strine, mate, we don't wanna know!". :lol:
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2019, 12:31 pm

ramshackle wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Recipes and inventions are private intellectual property protected by law so as not to be exploited by others that did not put in the research to discover or develop something.


You're assuming this is a propriety, perhaps even patented formulation. We have no evidence of that. It's not referred to as "Bobox®" or "Bobox™".

And BTW, can you point to any other surface protection that is secret? I mean look at Cerakote — we know what that entails. Nitriding as well, we understand it. We know that Tufftride ™ and Tenifer™ and Melonite™ are all forms of ferritic nitrocarburizing. CZ's "Arcor" is just nitriding.

I don't think I can name a surface treatment or coating that is a black box .... except Bobox. :unknown:

Maybe it's unAustralian to ask too many questions. "We're Strine, mate, we don't wanna know!". :lol:


If it's a new idea then it will likely remain "secret" for a while, until others work out what it is and then it becomes public knowledge.
This is not about not being allowed to ask questions, it's about whether a company chooses to give away their secrets before it suits them.
Ask away, just don't be upset when you are not given the answers. As long as they can keep it secret it remains "mysterious new leading-edge technology", even if it actually comes out of a can labelled "Paint, black, guns, for the painting of", and is applied with a two-inch brush.

Write saying your international company would like to buy their "bobox" technology, offer enough money and they'll eventually give you the answers :-)
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by SCJ429 » 04 Aug 2019, 1:36 pm

I am with you Ramjet, if they claim they have this fantastic treatment, they should tell you what it is, but.....

CZ is pretty ordinary when it comes to rimfire actions and barrels, they have to be because they are cheap and built to a very low price point. Get yourself a Turbo or Stiller action and a decent barrel and apply whatever surface treatment you like. You will know exactly what you are paying for.

Let others get sucked in by the Bobox marketing on their inferior CZ rifles.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Aug 2019, 1:40 pm

ramshackle wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:KFC's 7 secret herbs and spices must annoy the hell out of you. Most people don't bang on the counter demanding to know what they are, they just order the chicken and enjoy it.


Look at the difference in prices. Although a rifle and a bucket of chicken weigh the same, one costs 100x more than the other. :roll:


Yep a bucket of chicken might be cheap but the secret recipe has secured 22,600 KFC outlets in 135 countries around the world and given a value to KFC brand of 8.5 billion dollars.

A very valuable secret indeed.

Perhaps CZ's secret might be worth keeping. Who knows where it might take them.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by SCJ429 » 04 Aug 2019, 2:05 pm

Not starting an argument but.... KFC do publish a list of ingredients for everything they sell. One of the ingredients of their fried chicken is monosodium glutamate. Look up KFC ingredients list.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by Strikey » 04 Aug 2019, 6:35 pm

The only surface treatment my rifles have had for years is G96, reckoning its aroma is way better than that BOBOX crap :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 04 Aug 2019, 10:05 pm

Strikey wrote:The only surface treatment my rifles have had for years is G96, reckoning its aroma is way better than that BOBOX crap :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:


What's G96 based on? Petroleum, silicone, teflon ...?

Edit: it's petroleum based, so a little bit toxic:
http://theultimateclpresource.blogspot. ... 6/g96.html

The G96 Synthetic CLP Gun Oil looks like a better product, although difficult to get here in Oz apparently.

But in general, CLP-type lubes are crap
https://mil-comm.com/gun-cleaning/the-p ... ubricants/
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