What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

[bladeracer]

My best guess is a borate added to the molten metal.

Okay, over to the mob.

Molten metal? You mean during smelting the iron into steel ingots for forming into bars that then become barrel blanks? That would mean you could machine the surface with a lathe and still maintain the finish? It would also mean the finish would be the same inside the bore?

I think it's much more likely a hot oxide bluing technique that _might_ add boron to the surface during the rusting process.

[ramshackle]

Molten metal? You mean during smelting the iron into steel ingots for forming into bars that then become barrel blanks? That would mean you could machine the surface with a lathe and still maintain the finish? It would also mean the finish would be the same inside the bore?

Yup. That also happens to be what the Oz CZ rep told my LGS. He said it was added to the metal while the metal is in a liquid state.

[SCJ429]

If you add borate to molten steel it will rise to the top as a flux. You can add boron to steel alloys in order to improve corrosion resistance.

[on_one_wheel]

Spray it on any surface to stop rusting, bending, buckling, wrinkling, tearing and fading.

CZ BoBox Surface treatment

IMG_20190810_065851.jpg (73.74 KiB) Viewed 5526 times

[ramshackle]

If you add borate to molten steel it will rise to the top as a flux. You can add boron to steel alloys in order to improve corrosion resistance.

Well, if you add boron oxide to molten steel you get a ferroboron or iron boride that is corrosion resistant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_boride

The metal also becomes very hard, and much harder wearing.

You can also get a ferroboron layer onto steel by putting it into a container packed with boride powder and heating it to 1273 K (1000°C) for 8 hours.
This is known as a "powder-pack boriding process".
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10 ... 4016630257

More about this process:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boriding

[duncan61]

Good to see you have it sorted

[ramshackle]

Good to see you have it sorted

I don't have it sorted. I have a few theories, but in time we'll see which one is correct.

[SCJ429]

Good to see you have it sorted

I don't have it sorted. I have a few theories, but in time we'll see which one is correct.

Are you determined to buy the CZ or determined to understand their boron oxidising process?

[SCJ429]

If you add borate to molten steel it will rise to the top as a flux. You can add boron to steel alloys in order to improve corrosion resistance.

Well, if you add boron oxide to molten steel you get a ferroboron or iron boride that is corrosion resistant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_boride
quote]

You can also add manganese boron or nickel boron in the same manner to give your steel alloy different properties. I don't think that this is what CZ is doing and even if it was I would prefer a stainless barrel from Lithgow or Tikka which have proven resistance to corrosion if you store them with a little care.

[ramshackle]

Are you determined to buy the CZ or determined to understand their boron oxidising process?

I'd like to understand what they are doing, just out of my innate need to 'grok' what's going on. Doesn't everyone?

You can also add manganese boron or nickel boron in the same manner to give your steel alloy different properties. I don't think that this is what CZ is doing and even if it was I would prefer a stainless barrel from Lithgow or Tikka which have proven resistance to corrosion if you store them with a little care.

We simply don't know what CZ are doing, so what we think doesn't count.

And yes, like you I prefer a stainless barrel (and I have bought one), rather than an unknown quantity.

[Mattraff]

I have owned my 457 with this BOBOX treatment for a few months now and I can report that it hasn't killed me or burnt the house down as yet. I would prefer a smooth blued finish for aesthetics but this dull treatment is fine and the rifle shoots great so I'm not going to think about it much.

[Member-Deleted]

I find this post quite entertaining, bobox this or that, secret recipe not secret etc, and the author say's " dropping $1000 on a couple of Kilos of steel!" , well I think it's more than a couple of kilos of steel, but really it's all quite simple, if you feel it's bull dust and the rifle is not worth near $1000, don't buy it and move on to another manufacturer or brand where they are quite openlys willing to share all intellectual property etc just to secure your $1000. Oh I do not own a 457.

[TassieTiger]

I think the author has now hit his head on some bobox covered steel and has decided (via a different thread) that a good portion of the members here don’t share his most important worldly “cares” - thus, he has decided to return to his own firearm forum(which he owns outright apparently), and where he enjoys a much stronger membership number, who apparently agrees100% with His every whim and wish...

[Mattraff]

I spoke with a lady today from CZ at the shot show and asked if BOBOX was an applied coating. Her response was that it was a process during manufacture that is unique to CZ firearms and that if scratched the steel would not rust as bobox is not just a surface coating but is about 2mm deep. It is formed in the surface as nd within the steel structure during the heat treating process.

[ramshackle]

I spoke with a lady today from CZ at the shot show and asked if BOBOX was an applied coating. Her response was that it was a process during manufacture that is unique to CZ firearms and that if scratched the steel would not rust as bobox is not just a surface coating but is about 2mm deep. It is formed in the surface as nd within the steel structure during the heat treating process.

That's not reassuring. Good processes are already known and used extensively in the firearms industry.

I won't buy an expensive metal item that has an unknown and unproven —and secretive— surface treatment. Not in my very corrosive climate. It's just not worth taking the chance when known treatments are used by all other manufacturers.

[TassieTiger]

So you wouldn’t also be taking any so called improved / advanced pharmaceuticals either - as without a chemistry degree, your not going to understand the improvements.

[Bill]

I find it very reassuring that the process CZ uses isn't just a superficial coating like blueing or cerakoting, knowing that it is atleast 2mm deep will let me sleep more easily.

Protecting their own IP on a new coating /steel manufacturing process that saves on other coating treatments would be good business.

What will you be buying ??

[ramshackle]

So you wouldn’t also be taking any so called improved / advanced pharmaceuticals either - as without a chemistry degree, your not going to understand the improvements.

Medicines are NOT secretive. They have to go through extensive and exhaustive and OPEN testing. That's the exact opposite of what we have here.

[ramshackle]

I find it very reassuring that the process CZ uses isn't just a superficial coating like blueing or cerakoting, knowing that it is atleast 2mm deep will let me sleep more easily.

That's what they CLAIM, but we have no proof because it's a secret.

What will you be buying ??

One of the many other options, probably just s/steel

[Bill]

LOL @S/Steel wouldnt you be worried about galling.....

[ramshackle]

LOL @S/Steel wouldnt you be worried about galling.....

Why would I be?

Dissimilar grades of SS in the contacting parts, with proper lube, solves the problem

Galling was a problem with some early stainless guns but is pretty much nonexistent now.

[Bill]

Ummm incorrect galling can be a problem with both CM and SS and I have seen many recent built rifles with galling issues, your claim that it is non existent is bollocks, many people on here already think you over reach, please stop confirming it.

[Stix]

Bill...thats a bit harsh...!!

Im sure Ramo can give some examples of the "early stainless guns" he's owned that had issues with galling, & how his thorough knowledge in metallurgy can demonstrate how this galling-like that i had on a new rifle recently-doesnt happen anymore...


Its going to get interesting here soon...

You know...when he starts educating No1Mk3 about historic mil surps, re-educating Marksman how to load ammo, SCJ & sungazer how to shoot, & big pete how to call a fox in with lip squeeks...

QUACK QUACK...

[ramshackle]

Ummm incorrect galling can be a problem with both CM and SS and I have seen many recent built rifles with galling issues, your claim that it is non existent is bollocks, many people on here already think you over reach, please stop confirming it.

Give me a link to a decent source that confirms galling is an issue in modern rimfire rifles.

If it's a real problem, there should be plenty of links you can provide.

[Bill]

Oh deer you asked for links....if its not on the interweeb then it can't be real

I've only posted from my experiences, how bout you put down the mouse and go play in the sand pit with the other kids.

[ramshackle]

Oh deer you asked for links....if its not on the interweeb then it can't be real

Thought so, it's some forum anonymity who is sure there is no global warming and all the s/s guns are galled.

I've only posted from my experiences

I prefer verifiable data, not anecdotes.

[Bill]

Ramshackle if you ve only ever learnt stuff off the interweeb I shudder to think what you may have picked up off an ault websites

Mate can I recommend a more appropriate hunting forum where your style of rich story telling will find a greater audience......... AHN

[Stix]

Ummm incorrect galling can be a problem with both CM and SS and I have seen many recent built rifles with galling issues, your claim that it is non existent is bollocks, many people on here already think you over reach, please stop confirming it.

Give me a link to a decent source that confirms galling is an issue in modern rimfire rifles.

If it's a real problem, there should be plenty of links you can provide.

Ah...back to the continually tried & failed bullying tactics of the clown who gets through life riding the dictatory passive aggressive wave of projection...

Remember that word i taught you Ramo...??..sure you do...

Projection...
Putting onto others that which we most despise within ourselves...

You're a sad little sissy boy Ramo...

Quack Quack...

[TassieTiger]

So you wouldn’t also be taking any so called improved / advanced pharmaceuticals either - as without a chemistry degree, your not going to understand the improvements.

Medicines are NOT secretive. They have to go through extensive and exhaustive and OPEN testing. That's the exact opposite of what we have here.

If that were true, how would the FDA allow an opioid epedemic to occur...because they develop a pain pill that they say is coated in polyphodticcabavsnol - a coating that doesn’t allow opioid addiction and we have tested this costing and it is better than Bobox...but...but....

[ramshackle]

If that were true, how would the FDA allow an opioid epedemic to occur...

Further studies brought the addiction potential to light. More study, more answers. Everyone knows what opioids are, and there are no mysteries.