What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by Stix » 04 Aug 2019, 10:58 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I am with you Ramjet, if they claim they have this fantastic treatment, they should tell you what it is, but.....


Not arguing with you...just dosagreeing scj... :thumbsup:

So do you know, or believe solvent or gin lube manufacturors should tell you the mix of their concoctions...?...like boretec etc...?

I think its fsir to make claims, (manufacturors) about how good your products are, but i dont think you should be forced to give up your R&D, as long as the claims work...

If the coating (this from CZ) doesnt perform to how it is claimed & what it should stand up to, then the Aust importer should be held to account & made to provide adequate coating to firearms, or a full refund...
Iguess im saying i dont think we're entitled to demand the science--if this was the case we could all download the computer updates for our cars & upload them ourselves after we change the oil...
rather its reasonable to expect what you pay for...

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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by Stix » 04 Aug 2019, 11:21 pm

ramshackle wrote:Even the fact that you have to make guesses like this shows you that it's not acceptable for CZ, or any company, to hide the details of a fundamental quality of the weapon. As consumers, we have every right to know what "Bobox" means, in detail.


The product is a firearm...so i think the fundamental question that needs to be asked here is...
What are you intending to use it for given you class it as "a weapon"...?

And...although i know nothing about this"Bobox"...i can tell you everything you need to know...

Dear Sir;

Thank you for your interest into CZ heating treatment process.

Bobox is our own heating treatment with anti-corrosive effect. The difference between Bobox and Ceracotum is that our surface treatment goes deeper into the steel during heat treatment, so our layer is deeper and finish is retained even when the firearm is scratched.

Yours faithfully,
Milan Trkulja
Marketing
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2019, 11:47 pm

Stix wrote:The product is a firearm...so i think the fundamental question that needs to be asked here is...
What are you intending to use it for given you class it as "a weapon"...?


He is n Qld, the Qld government class it as a weapon. They have weapon licences.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Aug 2019, 8:00 am

Stix, the fact that you and Ramjet have differing points of view to me makes me think about my position and question it.

If you have a great new process and you trademark it, no one can copy your work. When I buy something I need to understand what I am buying. I am sure that CZ can explain their technology better than the marketing guys brief and vague description.

If I were Ramjet I would buy the excellent Lithgow or Tikka rimfires out of protest.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Aug 2019, 7:31 pm

I am sure we are not here to annoy other posters.

If I were to buy a Holden and it was fitted with an Energy Poloriser I would expect a reasonable technical explanation and not some fluff from the marketing guy. If they didn't provide what I wanted I would vote with my feet and buy a Ford.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 06 Aug 2019, 8:11 am

Reply received:

Dear Sir;

The Bobox treatment is a propriatory (sic) to the CZ. Therefore I am not in position to enclose any details of it to you.
Thank you for your understanding.

Yours faithfully,
Milan Trkulja


I responded:

Thanks Milan. In that case, I will buy another brand of gun, where the technology is known and the advantages and disadvantages understood.

(I'd actually decided on a Browning before I even asked him the question, but whatevs)

He replied:

Thank you for your interest. Wishing you a best of luck with a purchase of your new firearm..
Kind regards,
Milan

Some people are happy to buy completely opaque technology; not me. I am unaware of any other firearm manufacturer using black box technology on their products. I'm open to correction.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Aug 2019, 1:33 pm

ramshackle wrote:Some people are happy to buy completely opaque technology; not me. I am unaware of any other firearm manufacturer using black box technology on their products. I'm open to correction.


I'm happy to use electricity, which is pure black magic to me.
I'm happy to eat and drink foods that have been prepared in facilities completely unknown to me by people I probably wouldn't let walk my dog if I met them.
I'm happy to detonate explosives inches from my face without having the vaguest idea of what their recipes are.

Was there some actual point to needing to know exactly what their process is? Do you want to be able to repeat it? Are you concerned it might be carcinogenic? Do you want matching earrings ;-)

I wrote to Bronzewing to ask their birdshot alloy mix, fully expecting to be told to go away. But I explained that I wanted to know simply whether I could melt it with other alloys without causing myself any problems. They were kind enough to share the information with me, which I was pleasantly surprised by.

If you explain your concerns rather than simply demand their technical secrets they might well be more helpful. Ask them how you would go about touching up scratches perhaps?
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by Strikey » 06 Aug 2019, 6:19 pm

If the rifle shoots accurately who gives a toss what the coating is??
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 06 Aug 2019, 9:33 pm

Strikey wrote:If the rifle shoots accurately who gives a toss what the coating is??


Many rifles are accurate. But a durable coating can make a firearm much better in the climate I live in, where humidity can destroy metal objects really quickly.

I'm quite amused by the absurd comments I'm seeing here from a lot of you guys. There is not one other metal coating that is unknown in formulation. Take Cerakote, for instance. That's just tiny beads of ceramic in a polymer epoxy base. You can apply it yourself.

I don't think there is a single other firearms surface finish or treatment that is not understood, at least in its broad outlines. But Bobox? Nada, nothing, could be anything.

You guys may want to trust your expensive toys to unknown treatments, I don't. I take corrosion seriously.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 06 Aug 2019, 9:43 pm

If you Google Bobox surface treatment, the only worthwhile hit you get on the entire internet is this thread!

>Insert Nelson Munz laugh here<

Roll right up, suckers! Put your money down on this here "Bobox surface treatment"!
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Aug 2019, 12:36 am

ramshackle wrote:
Strikey wrote:If the rifle shoots accurately who gives a toss what the coating is??


Many rifles are accurate. But a durable coating can make a firearm much better in the climate I live in, where humidity can destroy metal objects really quickly.

I'm quite amused by the absurd comments I'm seeing here from a lot of you guys. There is not one other metal coating that is unknown in formulation. Take Cerakote, for instance. That's just tiny beads of ceramic in a polymer epoxy base. You can apply it yourself.

I don't think there is a single other firearms surface finish or treatment that is not understood, at least in its broad outlines. But Bobox? Nada, nothing, could be anything.

You guys may want to trust your expensive toys to unknown treatments, I don't. I take corrosion seriously.


Given your harsh climate - Did you research the non conductive insulator gel used in the cpu of your vehicle prior to purchase ? If you take corrosion serious and are concerned RE expensive toys...

It sounds to me like your upset at what is more than likely plain old snake oil - advertising bullsit / spin - and the world is FULL of it. Heck, according to Colgate - I should be landing aeroplanes with the gleam from my teeth by now...whiter teeth in 7 days after some 700 days should be God like white!
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by Blackened » 07 Aug 2019, 1:16 pm

Moderator note:

I've deleted all the argumentative crap over the last few pages.

Enough with the jibes. Keep it on topic. If you don't have anything constructive to add don't participate.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Aug 2019, 3:28 pm

FWIW - I’m not having a crack per se. Different ppl worry about different things - its life. If it were a $10,000 rifle then I might enquire as to what bobox is but consumer warranty would protect you regardless. If it was a $2-3k rifle?...well, basic and regular maintenance would probably prevent any mainstream / operational issues regardless of coatings...
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 07 Aug 2019, 4:41 pm

After reading comments like this, I decided to buy a stainless steel rifle:

I would never buy a blued rifle again. Either stainless or some of the high tech coatings is the way to go.


I bought stainless after a 10 day hunt yrs ago that it rained and snowed every day. All five of us with various brands of rifles from high to low end had rust showing up by day 3. Who wants to oil their gun every night after a long day of hunting? Went stainless and I put a few coats of the drying rust preventer before I leave and I forget about it until I get home. Wouldn't ever go blued with fancy wood stock for a mountain rifle again.


Stainless rifles still need care. They do allow a certain amount of margin for error when used in wet and dirty conditions, or in humid climates.

Of course the stainless steel used in rifles is generally 416R, which has distinct properties. It's a free-machining stainless steel with a machinability of 85%, highest of all stainless steels. But 400 series stainless - despite it's name - WILL rust if it's not wiped down and oiled. 300 series stainless is very resistant to corrosion, but lacks the tensile strength, toughness, and heat treat-ability for use in containing cartridge pressures.

Sometimes other stainless steels are used : 410 (the high machinability of 416 can be sacrificed to gain better corrosion resistance and formability) or 303 (a slight drop in machinability to gain better availability. Grade 303 is non-hardenable), or 182 (a free-machining Ferritic grade with better "soft magnetic" performance for solenoid shafts. Grade 182 is non-hardenable).

No mysteries here. Just plain materials science.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by Stix » 07 Aug 2019, 5:12 pm

TassieTiger wrote:FWIW - I’m not having a crack per se. Different ppl worry about different things - its life. If it were a $10,000 rifle then I might enquire as to what bobox is but consumer warranty would protect you regardless. If it was a $2-3k rifle?...well, basic and regular maintenance would probably prevent any mainstream / operational issues regardless of coatings...

Yep...!! :thumbsup:
Ditto...!!

Im not trying to be argumentative, but wiping some posts because they are deemed "argumentative" is fair enough...but i dont feel whats left is consistant...just saying...

I fail to see how this post for example,
ramshackle wrote:If you Google Bobox surface treatment, the only worthwhile hit you get on the entire internet is this thread!

>Insert Nelson Munz laugh here<

Roll right up, suckers! Put your money down on this here "Bobox surface treatment"!
Image

is deemed to be useful to the topic & not argumentative in itself... :unknown:
Or what KFC has to do with it... :unknown:

Just wipe the entire thread--almost by the op's own admission there is nothing useful in it...!!...& he's just bagging a company anyway... :silent:

Cant help but feel like we're in school & someone didnt like things not going their way & so "dobbed on the teacher"...

No doubt ill be complained about & punished for posting this...
But i feel a right to say it regardless...
:drinks:
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by on_one_wheel » 07 Aug 2019, 5:30 pm

Here's my letter to KFC

Dear Colonel Sanders
Can you please tell me what 7 secret herbs and spices are used on your original recipe chicken.
I would really like to know what I'm eating before I commit to buying a bucket of your chicken.

Dear on-one-wheel
Unfortunately our 7 secret herbs and spices must remain a secret.
All I can say is that the original recipe chicken is finger licking good.

My reply.
Screw you Colonel, I'm going to Red Rooster.

Dear on-one-wheel
I hope you enjoy your tough old Rooster as much as our billions of customers enjoy their KFC,
Knowing that we've lost a customer by keeping our recipe a secret is indeed hurtful :sarcasm:
Up ya bum
The Colonel
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on_one_wheel LIVES LEFT: 3..BONUS POINTS: 8

Did my post offend you? If you answered yes, send me a PM and I'll direct you to the nearest safe space.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by TassieTiger » 08 Aug 2019, 6:43 pm

Roflmao!

Gold!
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: What is CZ's Bobox surface treatment?

Post by ramshackle » 09 Aug 2019, 9:20 am

Just finishing my thoughts on this topic, it appears that CZ used to use a surface treatment called Polycoat, then in about 2016 moved to a ferritic salt bath nitriding process they called "Arcor" (nitriding is very common in the firearms industry, sometimes called Melonite, or Tenifer in the Glock world), before bringing out Bobox in 2018. I've seen claims that CZ used Polycoat over a Arcor/Melonite finish, and that Polycoat was an electrostatically applied polymer which was then baked on, giving a somewhat dull finish.

CZ used Polycoat from the 1990s and upgraded it about 4x. Polycoat was a cheap factory finish and covered imperfections in finish quite well, but had many issues with rubbing/flaking or chipping, from reports.

Eventually the truth of Bobox will leak out. It always does.

My best guess is a borate added to the molten metal.

Okay, over to the mob.

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