Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by scoot » 22 Nov 2019, 8:15 pm

I'm up in the sticks about 600km north of adelaide. I feel your pain, you pay good money for a supposed premium product only to be treated like a lepper once they have the cash. As firearms owners it just seems expected we'll take it in the tail.
I had a bl22 fail to fire problem develope and after being sent away for 5 months returned no better. Sent away again no update after 3 months till I fronted the rep when he walked into a shop. Within the week I was offered a new replacement..... guess what 2 month wait on new stock....sorted finally but as you said, very dirty taste left behind and I've fallen out of love.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by SckSqzBngBlo » 23 Nov 2019, 7:43 am

It sounds like buying a car, once you have signed your status instantly goes from Prince to Peasant as far as after sales service.
I hope my Lithgow turns out to be a good one.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by skwerl101 » 23 Nov 2019, 2:28 pm

I've been shooting my 101 for over a year now , humorously the very first CCI standard v. put into her misfired - twice . Ever since we have not liked CCI or Aguila ammo , any excessive fouling and rounds won't chamber easily or at all., My preference is RWS Club and Rifle Target . I very much like the gun as it is my favorite playing card splitter . She fits well between my 200m gun (CZ 457 MTR .17 HMR) and my other favorite Sako Finnfire . cheers............ s
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 25 Dec 2019, 12:45 am

Well...
39 days later, I have the Lithgow back.

Bolt body was replaced.
New firing pin with greater protrusion was fitted
Barrel was replaced

I've not had the chance to get to the range with it yet, but it was sent back with a photocopy of a very good looking group from Lithgow's test target.
I'll write a more comprehensive follow up when I've put a few boxes of ammo through it.

Merry Christmas to all.
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by allan » 25 Dec 2019, 1:49 pm

Certainly taken a while but that sounding promising, Michael...Hope it now functions and shoots to your expectations.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 04 Jan 2020, 11:13 pm

Hi all.
I spent this morning at the local range.
Shooting at 50 metres with SK Rifle Match ammo.
All went well with no misfires and zero malfunctions - it performed as it should.
I'm pretty happy with the way this thing shoots, happy enough that tonight I installed the trigger spring kit that I've had sitting here for the last (nearly) two months.
The trigger weight has gone from a bit over 1.5kg (about 3.3lbs) to 850 grams (about 1.9lbs) - So needless to say I'm really looking forward to the next range visit to test it out again.

My First test target:
Image

My second test target:
Image

Looks like they forgot to redo the red safety dot after it was refinished:
Image

Firing pin strikes:
Image
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


In a previous life:
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Jan 2020, 9:03 am

michael_sa wrote:Well...
39 days later, I have the Lithgow back.

Bolt body was replaced.
New firing pin with greater protrusion was fitted
Barrel was replaced
.


They may as well of just replaced it in the first place.
I am constantly concerned the way customers are treated these days. 39 days is pathetic.

And quality has slowly gone back to the bad old days and replaced with "greatolity". Looks great but just doesnt perform.

Hope it works out for you. A couple of the groups look very promising.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Wm.Traynor » 05 Jan 2020, 10:27 am

As Oldbloke says, some of those groups are really good :thumbsup: Interesting pic of the firing pin indents. Are you thinking of altering the profile of the tip, by any chance?
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 05 Jan 2020, 5:52 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
They may as well of just replaced it in the first place.
I am constantly concerned the way customers are treated these days. 39 days is pathetic.

And quality has slowly gone back to the bad old days and replaced with "greatolity". Looks great but just doesnt perform.

Hope it works out for you. A couple of the groups look very promising.


My thoughts too, but I'm old school - I'm probably in denial but I would likely qualify as an Oldbloke myself and yes, as for form over function... shiny and sparkly with rainbows and unicorns seems to be more important than function or longevity these days.
Some of the groups I shot were really good and I'm quite certain if I could lock it in a vice they'd all have been single hole groups, it can shoot way better than what I am capable of.
Thanks for the reply.
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


In a previous life:
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Gamerancher » 05 Jan 2020, 5:53 pm

Why would he alter the profile? It has just come back from a factory refurb, one that you'd hope was done with greater scrutiny, it now works and shows promise in the accuracy stakes. Those indents look good to me, crisp, even, good deformation of the rim with a largish foot-print from the firing pin.
Keep shooting, it looks like now "it 'aint broke".
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 05 Jan 2020, 6:54 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:As Oldbloke says, some of those groups are really good :thumbsup: Interesting pic of the firing pin indents. Are you thinking of altering the profile of the tip, by any chance?


Yeah it can shoot and as I mentioned in my reply to Oldbloke, I reckon it can shoot way better than what I'm capable of. The tighter groups are probably the gun showing it's potential and the other more open groups were likely me messing up.
As for the firing pin profile, so long as it continues to behave I see no reason to change it. It had about 120 rounds through it on Saturday without incident.

I took a lot of measurements and photos of the old internals before it went away for 'assessment' and the new striker/firing pin assy measures about 0.25mm longer than the original.
Image

New firing pin/protrusion:
Image


Those of you who have been following this post from the beginning, will recall that one of my other major gripes with this thing, was the finish on the bolt face and the poor general finish/machine marks left behind in various places.
Here's the new bolt face, still shows some tooling marks but better than the first one. I've worked in engineering workshops and I've operated lathes. Facing off rod stock is pretty difficult to make look ugly - but somehow they achieved it the first time around. This one's not so bad.

Maybe I'm just a fussy grumpy old fart...

Image


Internal machining of the new bolt and old bolt:

New bolt:
Image

old bolt
Image
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


In a previous life:
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 05 Jan 2020, 7:05 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Why would he alter the profile? It has just come back from a factory refurb, one that you'd hope was done with greater scrutiny, it now works and shows promise in the accuracy stakes. Those indents look good to me, crisp, even, good deformation of the rim with a largish foot-print from the firing pin.
Keep shooting, it looks like now "it 'aint broke".


I thought the strikes looked good too. I'm not sure if I have any SK brass shells in the workshop from the old bolt/firing pin assy. I'll check later, I have plenty of fired CCI brass but that might not be apples and apples in a side by side photo comparo.

Yes, aint now broke, it can stay as it is, :thumbsup: :drinks:
Smarter people than me designed this thing (still reserving my opinion of those that put it together though... :silent: )
Thanks for the reply
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


In a previous life:
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Bill » 05 Jan 2020, 7:15 pm

michael_sa it looks like a lovey shooter now, yeap machining marks like those on ur rifle shouldnt be the norm these days, still shows that Lithgow is really only a backyard OZ operation despite their history
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 05 Jan 2020, 7:39 pm

Bill wrote:michael_sa it looks like a lovey shooter now, yeap machining marks like those on ur rifle shouldnt be the norm these days, still shows that Lithgow is really only a backyard OZ operation despite their history


Hi Bill.
Sadly, I now agree with you.
I have very fond memories of the Lithgow's from years gone by and maybe I have always been wrong, but I grew up thinking that the Lithgows were good guns because they were made from military steel stock and from their history of manufacturing military arms.
I watched a great YouTube video a while back - (I'll post the links below) from 'Impact Dynamics' they did a walk through of the Lithgow Small Arms Museum guided and narrated by the curator. It's a really interesting watch. My take away from it though... was that the arms factory was just an engineering outfit that will take someone else's design, change it slightly and have a crack at making their own knock offs. If it was in China we'd probably be bagging them out for making fake copies of others designs...
Maybe I'll nick-name the '101 'Rolex' ... :lol:

Part 1: https://youtu.be/IRc4lB-_Mw0
Part 2: https://youtu.be/5aSBFx7gIrs
Part 3: https://youtu.be/-NC_RRxBZUg
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


In a previous life:
Winchester Model 70XTR .243W Weaver K6
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Wapiti » 10 Jan 2020, 5:53 am

Michael, looks like you've now got a great shooter and you certainly are a very skilled bench target operator. I can only think that this rifle should have been delivered in this state first time.

Got to say that I was shocked by the awful quality control on the previous bolt and parts collectively, the galling in the boring and on the bolt face and the scratches that look almost amateur quality. I say this as a metal tradesman also. One look says, nope.

The Lithgow centrefires don't appeal to me at all, with their one size fits all giant heavy action, but the rimfires were certainly appealing. Definitely would need to thoroughly inspect any specimen before purchase. Firing pin protrusion, and 0.25mm variation is a massively unacceptable variation and not something the average purchaser can, or should, face for a supposedly premium product.

Great that you got satisfaction finally, but everyone deserves this first time.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 10 Jan 2020, 6:38 am

Wapiti wrote:... Firing pin protrusion, and 0.25mm variation is a massively unacceptable variation and not something the average purchaser can, or should, face for a supposedly premium product.
...


Hi Wapiti, thanks for the comment.
Just a quick clarification, the extra firing pin protrusion was deliberate by Lithgow and noted in the email contact I had with an engineer there.
from Lithgow Arms email they wrote:The bolt body was replaced and a new firing pin with greater protrusion was fitted to give you the best chances possible of avoiding the light striking.

I must say that they were very good with responding to my questions, prompt replies and from someone that knew what was going on.
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


In a previous life:
Winchester Model 70XTR .243W Weaver K6
Franchi 520 12GA
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S&W 686 .357 (x2)


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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by in2anity » 10 Jan 2020, 9:36 am

Good outcome. She is shooting like she is supposed to. The ~2lb lumley kit is pretty good, certainly better than the factory trigger. Little creepy still. I appreicate the high euro comb on the la101 for standing offhand - my go-to RMS rifle.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Wapiti » 10 Jan 2020, 11:57 am

Thanks Michael.
Still to me though, an extra 0.25 to ensure you don't have ignition issues... makes me wonder about all the other owners with whatever they deem is standard acceptable protrusion... anyway it is what it is.

Rimfires (I spose it must be the QC of the ammo made out there) seem to be finnicky things. I raced up my 10/22 recently including a short carbon fibre barrel, new trigger and go fast bolt kit, and it had a lightened firing pin with "more protrusion" for much more reliable primer ignition, whatever that is.

The result was, that the cheap bulk ammo we use for practice that had a lot of primer misfires in our bolt guns as well, suddenly all seemed to be 99% cured.
Still get an odd one in all brands that turn up without priming compound it seems.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 10 Jan 2020, 8:41 pm

Wapiti wrote:Thanks Michael.
Still to me though, an extra 0.25 to ensure you don't have ignition issues... makes me wonder about all the other owners with whatever they deem is standard acceptable protrusion... anyway it is what it is.


Yeah I hear you,
Like most of what was done to it was conveyed to me as if it didn't really have a problem, the 'tone' of the contact was that it's problems were either the user or that I hadn't found the right ammo.
- I know I cant really justify that comment without pasting all the emails I had to and from them, but there certainly was the inference that we've (Lithgow) changed this and replaced that - as a "...goodfaith gesture" (their wording in relation to the barrel replacement) - I did find this a little patronising. If it's up to your standard, then you don't change it... so if you have changed a component or performed some remedial work on something, then that to me infers you found a fault or saw something that wasn't up to scratch in the first place.
Anyway, happy to wear that little bit of condescension. :silent:
Bottom line is, this post shouldn't and wouldn't exist if the gun was delivered to me in a different state than it was.
Getting back into it...

Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by GCol » 29 Mar 2020, 5:31 pm

Hi All
I have just fired Lithgow for the first time this week end and had around a third fail to fire, this was with three different types of ammo. It looks like it just didn't hit the cartridge hard enough, certainly the indentation is much shallower than any other 22 I have owned. So back it goes for repair.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by GCol » 29 Mar 2020, 6:00 pm

Hi All
I have just fired Lithgow for the first time this weekend and had around a third fail to fire, this was with three different types of ammo. It looks like it just didn't hit the cartridge hard enough, certainly the indentation is much shallower than any other 22 I have owned. So back it goes for repair.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by michael_sa » 05 Jun 2020, 8:04 pm

GCol wrote:Hi All
I have just fired Lithgow for the first time this week end and had around a third fail to fire, this was with three different types of ammo. It looks like it just didn't hit the cartridge hard enough, certainly the indentation is much shallower than any other 22 I have owned. So back it goes for repair.


Hi GCol,
Sorry for the late reply, but I've only just seen your post.
What has been the outcome?
Regards,
Michael
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Lithgow LA101 .22RF. Hawke Vantage 6-24x44SF


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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by GCol » 06 Jan 2021, 7:53 am

I have just realised that I forgot to close out on my miss firing issue. I returned my rifle to the LGS I purchased it from and they sent it back to Lithgow to take a look at it. A couple of weeks later it was returned with a note saying they replaced the firing pins and spring and that it tested ok. Since then no miss fires and I have a rifle that I am very pleased with as it now shoots very well.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by JimTom » 06 Jan 2021, 8:22 am

Glad to hear it is all sorted mate.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Lsfan » 06 Jan 2021, 9:43 am

Hi guys. It’s sad to read posts such as these as I know how frustrating it can be when you anxiously await a new product only to find it’s faulty and then have to wait again for repair. I suppose every manufacturer would have a number of faulty products from new and generally you only hear about the bad experiences. Michael, whilst it seems you are not too fond of Lithgow, do you think the gun shop has played a part in it? Is it possible that some damage was caused from mounting the scope? I wonder if LA were not as helpful because some of the damage was not entirely their doing and some of the responsibility was shared between them and your lgs? Also concerned now that when I soon take delivery of a new CZ that my LGS will cause damage mounting the scope. Anyway, good to hear it’s now functioning and finished much better.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by Diamond Jim » 14 Jan 2021, 1:51 pm

+1 on the finish on the bolt face. That's about as rough as it gets. Hopefully the clean you did resolves the issue.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by JohnV » 16 Jan 2021, 9:57 am

I am not impressed with Lithgow's design features . That's real rough looking machining . This company has a lot to learn about making good guns . Would not swap my Brno or Anschutz for two Lithgow's . Fixing a brand new product instead of just sending you another new gun is a poor attitude towards the customer . I can get a better warranty on a $10 toaster at K Mart .
Nose of the firing pin is too wide and too sharp on the leading edges and there could be rubbish or burrs inside the firing pin cavity , slowing it down and or a weak spring . You only need .035 protrusion and a .050 to .060 wide face .
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by allan » 16 Jan 2021, 11:22 am

I'd have to respectfully disagree - Any mass produced item can turn out to be a dud occasionally.
I own multiple models of Anschutz, Weihrauch, Walther, Cooper 57M, Bergara B14R & Vudoo V22.
I also own a couple of LA101's.
If I had to keep just two, it would be the Lithgows!
Yes, they need a fully adjustable trigger and a dedicated bolt stop but I guess that would bump up the price considerably.
Your comments on the firing pin protrusion & strike are spot on. However, I've not modified either of my LA101's and the Maddco barrelled version is the most consistently accurate 22LR I've ever owned.
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by JohnV » 16 Jan 2021, 3:18 pm

The more I look at the way they are made the less I like them . Everybody has their own opinion . So you spent another grand on a Madco barrel to get it shooting well .
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Re: Lithgow LA101 - Misfired on first shot

Post by deye243 » 16 Jan 2021, 6:51 pm

JohnV wrote:The more I look at the way they are made the less I like them . Everybody has their own opinion . So you spent another grand on a Madco barrel to get it shooting well .

If you seen how Allan's 101 maddco shot you would know why he did it .
To find a factory rifle that shoots like it does would be a very rare thing .
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