Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

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Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by NewShooterGirl » 05 Jan 2020, 8:44 am

:welcome: Hi everyone :clap: I am new to shooting. I am currently waiting to receive my license in the mail. Should be anytime now :clap: In the meantime, I need to think about what rifle and scope to purchase :geek: I have two main questions. 1) In your opinion, what is the most accurate .22LR rifle that you can think of? (for under $1k) and 2) What magnification would I need for Target Shooting at 50 metres away? (shooting at paper) Some people tell me 10x is enough.... Some people tell me 15x is enough.... Some people tell me 24x is enough.... Thank you to anyone who can help :welcome: :clap:
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by CrackThump » 05 Jan 2020, 9:07 am

Welcome to the addiction NewShoot :) I was you not long ago (. being new to shooting, not being a girl haha).

Talking about scopes, I shoot 50 and 100 mtr with a 3-9x magnification, a lot of advice ive had from people says beware of overpowered scopes. i would consider going as high as 12x on a rimfire

the most accurate 22LR in your price range.? you might want to consider a Tikka. a bit over $1000n, a few guys and my club have them and they are the ducks n*ts as far as the boys are concerned at 50,100 and 200 mtr.

Although you might want to check out the Ruger Precision Rimfire. When I was shopping for my first rimfire (and still wish I had bought the ruger) they were just under a grand and came as a scoped package deal ( 3-9x) .

in all your research and decision making remeber that google and youtube are your friend, if you have a rifle in mind, go look at as many online reviews as you can. I found youtube great for other peoples insights and to see the rifles in action

Exciting times ahead yo. :D have fun
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by NewShooterGirl » 05 Jan 2020, 9:19 am

Thank you crackthump. Well I am glad that you were not a girl not long ago haha. It's very hard selecting the correct magnification. When I tried to do some research on the net about what magnification would suit me best for target shooting at 50 metres away, I found nothing, every web site that I went to (in terms of selecting the right magnification) they all talked about hunting scenarios and not target shooting at 50 metres.. Makes it hard because obviously you dont need to be overly accurate when hunting at close range where as with target shooting you wanna be as accurate as possible and create the tiniest cluster possible
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jan 2020, 9:37 am

I agree with Mr Thump, the Tikka Rimfire looks like a good thing. I have seen and used two of them that shot very well.

Your other option might be an Anschutz Super Match such as the 1413 or 1813. These rifles are going to be around 40 years old to be in your budget but would still be competitive for club shooting.

I used a fixed power 12x to compete in BR50 and field rifle when I started out. I now use a 36x for benchrest shooting. If you get a variable scope you can wind back the magnification until you want it. Best to go along to a local competition and see what the competitive shooters are using.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Cooper » 05 Jan 2020, 9:57 am

Welcome NewShooterGirl. What is your budget for a scope? You should definitely be able to get a Tikka Rimfire under $1000 in Victoria. My local had one for under $900 new and I was tempted myself. For shooting targets at 50 metres I wouldn’t want anything less than 12 X. My hunting .22 has a 3X9 and my other 22s have adjustable scopes that go up to 18X.

If the Tikka doesn’t take you fancy I would recommend a CZ.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by NewShooterGirl » 05 Jan 2020, 10:10 am

Thanks for your help SCJ429, When you say that you use a magnification of 36x for benchrest shooting SCJ429, is that for target shooting at 50 metres away? Thank you Cooper, for my 1st scope, I wouldnt want to spend more than $600, so you would recommend a magnification of 18x for target shooting at 50 metres, is that correct?
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Wm.Traynor » 05 Jan 2020, 10:45 am

Welcome to shooting, NSG :thumbsup:
Limiting your initial expenditure is probably very wise of you IMO. Learn to shoot As Well As You Can with whatever you buy. You might want to upgrade later depending on your financial situation. Or maybe you will be satisfied with things as they are. As long as you are happy. The specific advice above is OK but above all, you should ask questions, any time, any place. That's how you/we learn :D :thumbsup: and Good Luck.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 05 Jan 2020, 11:11 am

I am new to shooting also

From memory
Most shooters recommended for me to get a magnification of 6-24x for Target Shooting
Apparently the more magnification you have
The more you can see where the bullets are hitting the target
The more you can then adjust accordingly etc

I don't know much about shooting myself (just yet)
However, a 6-24x magnification would be a good pick I think
As the 6-24x would cover a lot of ground I would imagine
The 6-24x would be very versatile I would imagine

24x might be over kill for shooting at 50 metres away though
I'm not sure if everyone here would agree with me?
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Wm.Traynor » 05 Jan 2020, 4:00 pm

Scope sights and rifles are a lottery, IMO. That is, you pays your money and you takes your chances. That being the case, it would be cheaper, if nothing else, for a beginner, to learn with iron sights. Then practice until an acceptable standard is reached and see how you feel about shooting. It is imperative that one has a coach for the initial weeks to observe results, otherwise the beginner might even be practicing his or her mistakes, for all they know. Then, access to readily available advice when the shooter deems necessary.
Obviously, if optical assistance is vital in the case of poor eyesight, then the iron sights are a liability but if a shooter needs glasses And a scope, then very good advice is essential.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by in2anity » 05 Jan 2020, 4:54 pm

It doesn’t take long to realize you can bench tighter groups using say a 24x vs say a 12x. Nonetheless the high mag target scopes are bulky and generally inconvenient for carrying. Also keep in mind they may appear a little disproportionate on the dainty little tikka rimfire. That’s more a field gun design. Only get a high power scope if you see yourself overwhelmingly using the gun for static type target shooting. Which BTW I think is the perfect place to start. Once you learn the ropes, you can start to consider your next rifle and scope, which might be a little different depending on the way your tastes are evolving.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by No1Mk3 » 05 Jan 2020, 5:15 pm

G'day NewShooteGirl,
So, by now you can see every one has an opinion that is a bit different to others! Normal shooting behaviour!! Well here is my 2 cents worth, if you want to focus on 50m Target, forget spending money on a big scope as a scope will not help accuracy at all for 50m, a 2.5x to 3x will work very well, with fine reticles, as you will see shot placement quite OK. If you want to go bunny busting it will be fine for all offhand out to 100m, and be a lot lighter to carry and hold. Spend the extra on a good rifle, learn trigger control and breathing. As for a rifle, so many good rifles these days capable of great 50m groups, but traditionally the Anschutz has been the choice of medal winners and Champions, a good Annie can be found for 7 - 800, Brno has always made a good rifle, and I would back my peep sighted, 50 year old, $150, Lithgow Model 12 against anything short of Olympic rifles, Cheers.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Gamerancher » 05 Jan 2020, 5:38 pm

You may need to clarify your intentions. Are you talking about competition "target" shooting or just shooting at paper targets at the range?
If it is the former, I would advise going to your local range, to the competition you are thinking of having a go at, look at what people are using and asking those same people who actually compete in it. At the least, please define what type of target shooting you are interested in. Getting opinions off a forum, from people who have never competed and therefore no idea what is actually required, is going to cost you dearly.
If it is the latter, yeah, well....., have fun and good luck. :thumbsup:
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Ferrisweil » 05 Jan 2020, 6:05 pm

If you’re not competing, get yourself something like a CZ452 (second hand you’ll get them $600-$800 - checked out “usedguns”) and then get yourself a 4-12x50 or something thereabouts. If you’ve decent eyes, you’ll just about see you shots at 100m on paper, just......Maybe a 5-15x50? Again, if you’re not competing, have a look at Redfield and Vortex scopes.
That’s something I’d look at if I was starting out. Would be prefect for busting bunnies if you ever wanted to use it for that as well
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jan 2020, 7:41 pm

NewShooterGirl wrote:Thanks for your help SCJ429, When you say that you use a magnification of 36x for benchrest shooting SCJ429, is that for target shooting at 50 metres away? Thank you Cooper, for my 1st scope, I wouldnt want to spend more than $600, so you would recommend a magnification of 18x for target shooting at 50 metres, is that correct?


Yes, for 50 metre targets. Fixed power 36x Leupolds, Weaver or Sightron are popular because they are light and help if you have weight restrictions in the class you are competing. Of course you will see guys with March, Nightforce and Khales variable power scopes where weight is not a consideration. Check out Rimfire Central for more information.


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... p?t=553524
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by NewShooterGirl » 05 Jan 2020, 9:51 pm

Great, thank you so much for the feedback everyone, in terms of magnification, I will try to aim for something like 10-20x to start with. 10-20x seems to be a good happy inbetween medium which would cover lots of ground, I'll see how I go with that. In terms of rifle, I will look into the Ruger, Anschutz Super Match and CZ. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me out, I look forward to doing more research and becoming more knowledgeable :clap: :welcome: :geek:
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 05 Jan 2020, 10:24 pm

NewShooterGirl;

In regards to magnification; going for something along the lines of 10-20x
I think that's a wise decision

I got my license not long ago myself
I've done so much research, I'm exhausted by it lol
Anyway
And for my first scope
I decided to go with: 6-24 x 50mm

The 6-24 x 50mm seems ideal to me
So versatile, can't hurt

The more versatile = The better
(I reckon)
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 05 Jan 2020, 10:41 pm

I am actually very surprised it seems like the market had fallen for the cz452 rifles seeing them as low as 600-700 on the websites. i been trying to sell mine and havnt had any luck... sad face

Saying that it is very important to define or understand what you want to do, if you are wanting to do serious bench rest comps then have a chat with your local guys. If you want just standard comps then most guns and brands will be good enough esp as the tolerances in most new guys are quite good, say on a good day cz/tikka/ruger/savage/lithgow will produce pretty accurate rifles.

I know a couple people have mentioned the ruger precision rimfire rifle but my search on them the results was quite average, shame as i really wanted one.

Regarding scopes, my suggestion don't go a 35x as your first scope. Also i have tried 3x9, 12x, 16x, 24x and a 36x on a 22lr, and honestly the higher the mag the better it is (depending on glass quality ofcourse).

For a target rifle The bigger objective allows more light in the lenses which is good. 30mm tube is better than 1inch tube, more ups and also more light. So go a 50mm objective if you can.

Some people will be more than happy with a 3x9 shooting bunnies at 50m, some will be more than happy with a 18x scope shooting paper at 300m. But the question is why do benchrest and comp guys generally use 24x or 35x or even 45x scopes at 50/100m? Its about accuracy for them.

Lastly to complicate things further, everyone is different, and what might work for me, won't work for you
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by TheFirearmEnthusiast » 05 Jan 2020, 11:27 pm

Well said Ziad ^
I agree
:)
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jan 2020, 8:19 am

High magnification scopes are difficult to use for the novice competitor, I loaned a friend a 36x scope for his first comp at 300 metres and at first he could not find the target. He soon worked it out. Even a 12x fixed power can be difficult to get on until you learn to use both eyes open, see the target with your non dominant eye and bring the retical to this spot.

If you buy a scope with variable magnification of 4 to 12 power, you will leave it on 12x all of the time. You might as well bought 8.5 to 25x and wind the power back to 12x to get you started. Very soon you will find you are shooting on the maximum magnification all of the time.

If you bought a scope that was a variable 12 to 55x it would not make you shoot worse and there is a chance that you may shoot better. It gives you the flexibility to shoot at any magnification that you prefer.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by in2anity » 06 Jan 2020, 8:58 am

I would say pretty much any form of scoped target shooting ultimately lusts after more magnification. I shot rimfire metallic silhoutte comp religously for a couple of years (pre kids :P ), and in the end found my 12x scope to be lacking. My mates and I used to swap guns just to try new things. One had the 20x leuie on his Lithgow, and it was noticebly easier with the extra magnification. On the contrary, my other mate who was running the 9x leuie - definately harder with the lower magnifcation - sure the wobble is less magnifiied - but it's also harder to tell when you're on target to actuate the trigger at that precise moment...

Horses for courses however - I loathe big scopes when I'm out bush. I'm in love with the little 2.5-8x36mm leuie for precise field shots out to 200m. Such a great, compact little scope with more than enough magnification for practical applications... that's such a great scope for a light carry gun.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jan 2020, 9:12 am

in2anity wrote:
Horses for courses however - I loathe big scopes when I'm out bush. I'm in love with the little 2.5-8x36mm leuie for precise field shots out to 200m. Such a great, compact little scope with more than enough magnification for practical applications... that's such a great scope for a light carry gun.


Totally agree there, a fixed power 6x scope is excellent for hunting at moderate ranges but for target shooting is woefully inadequate. There is nothing like going to a local competition and seeing how the good guys do it. No point getting opinions from guys who have never competed.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jan 2020, 9:38 am

Walther and Feiworkbau also make excellent factory competition rimfires. The hard bit is finding one within a budget.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 06 Jan 2020, 10:39 am

Now now both of you get a room and kids and make up.

I quite like that rifle.... if i could afford to buy it. Haha probably well out of most ppl budget
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jan 2020, 3:13 pm

Here is something that could be worth looking at, the barrel may have been replaced on this Anschutz. It would look pretty sporty with a Nightforce scope.

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=165780
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Flyer » 06 Jan 2020, 3:40 pm

No-one has made mention of parallax, which is perhaps one of the most important considerations for a 22 target scope.

Parallax adjustment – either side focus or adjustable objective – will bring the target sharply into focus at different distances, most notably when you are shooting targets shorter than 50m.

If you plan to shoot targets at 50m, you'll likely also be shooting them at 25m, so you need a scope that focuses at least down to 25m. Many rimfire target scopes focus down to 10m, though that may not be necessary.

Ziad wrote:For a target rifle The bigger objective allows more light in the lenses which is good. 30mm tube is better than 1inch tube, more ups and also more light. So go a 50mm objective if you can.

I don't think that's entirely necessary for a rimfire scope for a couple of reasons.

The first is that most target comps are shot during the day or under lights at night, when light is not an issue. A 50mm objective is fine for low light and maybe if you have a high magnification (bigger exit pupil, easier to get your eye behind), but it usually comes with a weight penalty.

30mm tubes are also heavy and they do not add to light-gathering ability. The only advantages 30mm tubes provide are more windage and elevation adjustment, and added strength. Good for hunting or shooting over long distances, but perhaps not needed for rimfire targets at 50m.

You usually have a better choice of scopes and rings in the 1" range.

You haven't said what type of target shooting you plan to do, but if you are going to be shooting offhand, you will appreciate a scope that does not add too much weight to the rifle.

If you plan to shoot rapid-fire or any discipline where fast target acquisition is important, you do not want too much magnification. Typically 4-6x at the low end is what you would use initially.

At the high end, higher magnification is better for supported shooting (benchrest, bipod, stand etc) or more experienced offhand shooters who can use it, but it's also something you can grow into as you become a better shooter.

Magnification alone will not help if the glass is poor quality, so don't just look at the magnification, look at the overall package.

Taking all these things into account, you probably want a 1" scope in the 4-16 or 6-20 range with a 40mm objective that focuses down to 25m and isn't too heavy. You'll probably want a thin or target style reticle for target shooting, or a normal plex style reticle if you also plan to hunt.

In your budget, Leupold and Bushnell make a few scopes you can buy new or second hand, while Weavers can also sometimes be found new but mostly second hand now that they are not being made anymore.

Leupold
VX2 4-12x40, 6-18x40
VX3 4.5-14x40, 6.5-20x40
You want the "AO" models (adjustable objective) that go down to 10-25y

Bushnell
4500 4-16x40, 6-24x40
These both have SF (side focus) down to 25y

Weaver
Grand Slam 4-16x40 (SF), 6-20x40 AO

Special mention goes to the Leupold VX2 3-9x33 EFR – it's a great little scope that punches above its weight and is very handy on a rimfire rifle, but if you are serious about target shooting, you will soon outgrow it. But it is a great starter scope within your budget.

These are just some examples of the more popular scopes you'll see at rimfire matches. Others may chime in with similar recommendations.

As for the rifle, you usually can't go wrong with a CZ new or second hand. They are cheap and far more accurate than their price would indicate.

My only other advice is to buy the best you can afford. I've seen so many shooters buy cheap scopes only to upgrade them in a short time. They would have been better off buying a good scope to begin with and not wasted money on continual upgrades.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Ferrisweil » 06 Jan 2020, 3:48 pm

:D “Buy once, cry once” raises its venomous head again. Agreed.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by mikejay » 14 Jan 2020, 8:31 pm

I've recently got my license too and went through exactly the same thing. I settled on a Savage MKII BTVLSS, I'm a lefty and they come in LH.
I did a bit of research and the factory barrels on the Savages are button rifled and that Savage has a bit of a rep for making good to excellent factory shooters, of course you get crap ones just like any mass produced rifle. If I had the money I would have gotten an Anschutz64 MPR, if I had even more money I would have gotten a Vudoo V-22.

I too have been concentrating on paper targets at 25 & 50 meters, eventually I'll go up to 100 meters too.

My first scope was a mistake for this kind of shooting and I sold it (Hi Ziad), the scope I have now is by a relative newcomer to the market called Vector Optics, they're probably to best quality scope coming out of China, they're actually fitted with German glass. Don't forget 80% of those well known brand scopes also come out of Chinese manufacturing.

The scope Model I have is the Continental 5-30x56 Tactical Riflescope. As the model name implies its zoom range is from 5x to 30x with an objective of 56 mm and a tube diameter of 30 mm, it has side focus (edited this in when I read Stix's post and completely agree) The turrets track perfectly, I love this thing, feature for feature, quality to quality it compares favourably to big brand scopes 3 times it's price.

I'm 50, I wear glasses to see distance, but using this scope I can see and aim at the 2mm diameter centre dot on a SSAA 6 target card at 50 meters.

The thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is a quality front rest and rear bag setup is so dam important. I pfaffed around with a cheap Allen Citadel front rest and an Allen rear bag, I really wish I didn't, the thing caused so much frustration and self doubt. It's flimsy and jiggly and defines what a badly designed and manufactured front rest is. I wasn't able to get groups under 1 MOA at 50 meter with it. I eventually moved to a Caldwell The Rock BR and refilled the Allen rear bag with sand instead of the hollow plastic beads crap it comes filled with. I now get 1/4 to 1/2 MOA 10 shot groups if I take my time. The takeaway is don't scrimp on a front rest and rear bag setup and they'll serve you well.

Another tip from a newbie, good shooting posture is an absolute must, watch as many YouTube videos on bench shooting tips as you can, watch how they sit and position themselves behind the rifle. When I started I saw the cutout on most of the benches and I got into a bad habit of sitting in the cutout and hunching side on to the rifle, don't do it, it will screw up your accuracy and repeatability.

There's tons more to it, but I hope my little post allows you to ask the right questions.
Last edited by mikejay on 14 Jan 2020, 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Stix » 14 Jan 2020, 8:41 pm

Sorry to butt in here not having read everything previous to this...

Personally...id stay away from the "AO" style of scope...

A PITA if hunting...& also a PITA if target shooting...

I rekon there is nothing worse than having to move your shoulder &/or cheek position because you have to reach so far forward to to adjust the scope paralex...
Stick with side focus... :thumbsup:

Also beware, many scopes are not in focus when the paralex is set, & visa-versa...so learn how to set the paralex properly, &/or align your eye through the true centre axis of the scope... :thumbsup:

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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Jan 2020, 10:00 pm

I don't think that side focus is a big deal for Benchrest. I use my focus to look at which way the mirage is running and don't find it upsets me. At short range you are probably not refocusing too often.
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Re: Help Needed - Rifle + Magnification

Post by Stix » 14 Jan 2020, 10:06 pm

I find i refocus more at short range...
Depth of feild is more forgiving the greater the distance.

Anyway, not arguing...i just dont like AO at all...had one, couldnt reach the front objective/focus ring without being uncomfortable & shifting my shooting position, so got rid of it & wont be getting another any time soon...
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