Short Barrels v/s Long Barrels (Accuracy)

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Hi Lads,

I hope that everyone is having a great week and that everyone is well

So, I'm looking at buying my 2nd rifle.
It will be a .22LR Rimfire Rifle
I will be using it for target shooting only
I will be shooting at paper at 50metres (primarily)
And of course, I would like to be as accurate as possible (naturally)

Some people say that long barrels are more accurate because the long barrels rifle the bullet more, thus making the shot more accurate
(Due to the extra rifling)

But others say that shorter barrels are actually more accurate. Because shorter barrels are more rigid, thus improving the trajectory of the bullet

I tried to look online as well but I've seen many contradicting point of views....

I'm wondering what you guys reckon?

Are the long barrels truly more accurate than the short barrels? Or is that just a myth?
Would it actually make a noticeable difference in terms of accuracy shooting at 50metres away?

Thanks Lads

[bigpete]

From what I've read,a short,stiff barrel is more accurate.
Long barrels are good in that you can get more velocity out of them due to better powder burn. Also,in the old days of iron sights,you had a longer sight plane to work with which made shooting accurate easier.
I doubt you'd need more than an 18" barrel on a 22 to achieve maximum projectile velocity. There's studies on it out there.
My understanding is a short thick barrel is less affected by harmonics

[marksman]

pete said it all +1

[SCJ429]

Shorter barrels are stiffer than long barrels of the same profile, best to use the shortest barrels that gives you the velocity you are looking for. For centre fire the optimal lenght is just over 20 inches. Long skinny barrels whip around, vibrate, more at the tip. This movement can release the bullet at a different point shot to shot. This is not good for accuracy.

Rimfire rifles are similar, optimal lenght for subsonic bullets is about 18 inches and supersonic need about 20 inches. Any more may cost you a tiny bit of speed. Unlike centrefires you cannot adjust the speed of your bullet to get to the muzzle at the calmest point of the vibration wave. Some shooters fit a barrel tuner to adjust the vibration pitch to suit their ammunition.

Why do Olympic smallbore rifles appear to have extremely long barrels? These guys use iron sights and to increase their sight radius they fit a bloop tube. This does not touch the bullet and has nothing to do with the speed of the bullet. It is just an extension to mount the front sight onto.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Awesome
Thanks Lads

Yeah
I have to admit
I love the idea of a short barrel
Short barrels are just easier to carry and easier to manoeuvre I find
To me, it just feels better shooting a rifle with a short barrel
It's just more enjoyable to me
(Especially when shooting standing up)

However, like I said also
I do like accuracy
I do like to be precise
So if the longer barrels provided more accuracy for sure
Then I would've been on the fence between the two

But yeah
If there's no major difference at all in terms of accuracy between the two
Then I may as well stick with the short barrels

It kinda makes sense too that the shorter barrels would be more accurate
Due to them being stronger/stiffer/more rigid
Logic tells me that those conditions would improve the bullet trajectory for sure

Awesome
Thanks Lads
Great productive chat

[SCJ429]

Sorry for repeating what you just said Pete, I am a slow poster and you explained it while I was typing.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Thank you SCJ429
That all makes sense to me


The rifle that I'm looking at purchasing has a barrel length of 16.125"
Do you Lads reckon that this barrel length would be okay in terms of being accurate for target shooting at 50metres away only?
(.22LR Rimfire)
Would it give me enough velocity for the job that I wanna do?

[SCJ429]

Of more importance to you is ammunition that shoots well. Try some quality ammo like Eley Club or Match, Lapua Centre X, or RWS R50. Subsonic ammo is the way to go for accuracy. If you want to use supersonic ammo, it needs to arrive at your target supersonic.

If it goes through the transonic period, it will get knocked around by the sound pressure wave as it moves from behind the bullet to in front of it. This buffeting is not very kind to accuracy.

[SCJ429]

I have two friends that have Tikka rimfires with 16 1/4 inch barrels. They both shoot RWS ammo extremely well for a factory rifle.

[SCJ429]

I have two friends that have Tikka rimfires with 16 1/4 inch barrels. They both shoot RWS ammo extremely well for a factory rifle.

[SCJ429]

Would your budget stretch to this beautiful thing?

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=166778

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

SCJ429;
I’m not gonna lie, I haven’t experienced too much with ammunition just yet. But yeah, the next time I go to the gun store, I’ll definitely buy a box of everything and see which ones my rifles like. That’s probably my next step. And I agree that subsonic is the way to go for accuracy, makes sense


I hear so many great things about the CCI standard velocity ammunition. Is that subsonic?

Ah okay, if your friends have Tikka Rimfires with 16 ¼ inch barrels that shoot extremely well, I should be okay with the 16 ¼ barrel rifle that I’m interested in as well then, that’s awesome news


Sorry SCJ429, I tried to click on your link but nothing came up, it just took me to the home page

[SCJ429]

That is a bugger, the rifle is a Turbo action bench rifle for the bargain price of $4,000.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Oh by the way Lads

So we've (more or less) established that short barrels are more accurate for "Short distance target shooting"

But

Would you guys say that short barrels are more accurate for "Long distance target shooting" also?

Using logic
I would think so
Due to the lack of harmonics in the short barrels
Due to the stiffness and rigidness and strength of the short barrels

However
The "extra rifling" of the long barrels could potentially increase the accuracy of the shots over long distance....

What do you guys reckon for long distance target shooting?
(Between 200m and 500m away)
Short barrel or Long barrel?

[bladeracer]

Barrel length really has no relationship to cartridge accuracy, even a two-inch barrel can be accurate. In a bench rifle, longer barrels are useful to make more velocity thus reducing the time of flight during which the bullet is effected by the environment. But in a field rifle that is not securely positioned, a longer barrel means a longer period during which the bullet can be effected by the shooter. Once it exits the muzzle, the bullet becomes ballistic, it is on it's own from then on and the shooter no longer guides or powers it.

All combinations of powder and bullet have their own optimal barrel length for velocity. Fast-burning powders are fully-consumed quickly to produce maximum pressure in barrels of small volume (diameter and length), at which point they are no longer producing pressure, so a longer barrel simply increases friction, which reduces the velocity. Slow-burning powders produce pressure for longer. But there is a point at which a powder burns faster than it can efficiently overcome the inertia and friction of a heavy or high-friction bullet, much like trying to accelerate a vechile from low speed in a high gear.

.22LR is a rifle and pistol cartridge, so it is optimised for short (low-volume) barrels. Generally, 16-18" is optimal for velocity, although very low or high velocity cartridges would likely make optimal velocities in shorter or longer barrels. I have barrels from 18" to 22", so it'd be interesting to shoot some 710fps CCI Quiet and some 1850fps CCI Copper-22 over the chrono to see if there's a difference.

[SCJ429]

Why are you not using your Ruger to do this shooting? Why would you buy a second rimfire to do this?

What sort of accuracy are you getting from this rifle? Why would you want to try and hit targets at 500 metres with a rimfire? Are you able to hit targets currently at 200 metres?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

SCJ429;
Although I love everything about the Ruger Precision Rimfire Rifle
I wanna buy the Henry Youth lever action .22LR as well
Only because I freaking love lever actions hahaha
And I'm only using my rimfires for shooting targets at 50metres away


But I'm just thinking for down the track
If I get into long distance target shooting down the track
I'm wondering if I'll needa go with a short or long barrel for then
Hence why I'm asking about barrel length for long distance target shooting right now as well.

May as well, since this thread is about barrel length

And I wouldn't wanna shoot past 100metres with my rimfires
I'm not that brave haha

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

BladeRacer;
So you reckon that the barrel length is kinda irrelevant for what I wanna do (which is target shooting at 50metres away with a rimfire) Is that right?

[bladeracer]

Done
https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=13101

[bladeracer]

BladeRacer;
So you reckon that the barrel length is kinda irrelevant for what I wanna do (which is target shooting at 50metres away with a rimfire) Is that right?

No, the length is not irrelevant, although for a new shooter it may be of no consequence.
You want to weigh velocity against barrel time. Higher velocity reduces both barrel time and flight time, but best accuracy is generally (not always) achieved with subsonic ammo, so you don't want to go much faster than about 1080fps at the muzzle.
If you are shooting from a rest, barrel time will have little effect on accuracy, unless you have a very long lock time. But from field positions barrel time needs to be minimal as it's impossible to hold the rifle perfectly stationary as it fires.

[bladeracer]

Why are you not using your Ruger to do this shooting? Why would you buy a second rimfire to do this?

What sort of accuracy are you getting from this rifle? Why would you want to try and hit targets at 500 metres with a rimfire? Are you able to hit targets currently at 200 metres?

I don't think anybody needs a reason to want more than one of anything.

Hitting targets at long ranges is just as much fun with a .22LR as a centrefire, just at half the distances, and probably teaches you more.

[SCJ429]

The longest range competition for rimfire I am aware of is 200 metres.

If you current barrel is longer than you consider ideal, you can take it to your gunsmith and have him shorten and recrown it for $100.

The Henry is an inexpensive rifle that is a poor performer. Other than plinking at close range, it has limited uses. Great if you want to pretend you are John Wayne. Buy one with low expectations.

[RoginaJack]

I reckon the choice of 22lr ammo will have more effect on accuracy than a 18 or 20" barrel plus make of rifle - quality of steel and profile of barrel etc.

[bladeracer]

SCJ429;
Although I love everything about the Ruger Precision Rimfire Rifle
I wanna buy the Henry Youth lever action .22LR as well
Only because I freaking love lever actions hahaha
And I'm only using my rimfires for shooting targets at 50metres away


But I'm just thinking for down the track
If I get into long distance target shooting down the track
I'm wondering if I'll needa go with a short or long barrel for then
Hence why I'm asking about barrel length for long distance target shooting right now as well.

May as well, since this thread is about barrel length

And I wouldn't wanna shoot past 100metres with my rimfires
I'm not that brave haha

I really wanted the Youth 001Y myself, but it was unavailable when I bought my 001. They are the identical rifle though, just with a slightly shorter barrel and butt stock, so a 001 can easily be turned into a 001Y.

With the .22LR, regardless of distance, you want to stay subsonic, so barrel length really won't matter. With centrefires, a longer barrel like 30" can certainly make hundreds more feet-per-second, which can be important to maintain velocity above transonic by the time it reaches the target, as well as reducing flight time. And the higher velocity can broaden the window when building a precision load, a bullet that shoots great at 3500fps may be wasted in a barrel only capable of 3300fps. But again, for field shooting you need to weigh in barrel time and how stable you can position the rifle.

I do actually recommend at least trying the .22LR at longer ranges, if only because the distance enlarges the errors, and the lessons learned. And it's just damned good fun waiting to hear the ding as the bullet makes a longer journey than it ever hoped it might enjoy
At 500m your bullet gets to live more than a dozen times longer than it does at 50m.

[bladeracer]

The longest range competition for rimfire I am aware of is 200 metres.

If you current barrel is longer than you consider ideal, you can take it to your gunsmith and have him shorten and recrown it for $100.

The Henry is an inexpensive rifle that is a poor performer. Other than plinking at close range, it has limited uses. Great if you want to pretend you are John Wayne. Buy one with low expectations.

I'm sure there are longer rimfire competitions than 200m, not to mention the long-range challenges that are posted across social media just for giggles, shooting an egg at 300m for example
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/3/22/all-about-precision-rimfire-competition/

I agree about the Henry 001, it is cheap, it is fun, it is not a competition rifle except for CLAS lever-action Silhouette, which is also pretty good fun. But there are other .22LR lever-actions that can offer the same or better. But we can still own as many CatA firearms as we want, so there's no reason not to get them all, while we still can.

[bladeracer]

I reckon the choice of 22lr ammo will have more effect on accuracy than a 18 or 20" barrel plus make of rifle - quality of steel and profile of barrel etc.

I agree, ammo is the primary ingredient in .22LR accuracy, test everything until you discover what your rifle shoots best, then work on optimising the rifle and the scope.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

This could sound bad
But I honestly do love firearms so much
So I just wanna go down to the range
And I just wanna kick back and plink all day long haha
(As a figure of speech)

So if I wanna plink all day long
(As a figure of speech)
For now
I may as well stick with the .22LR's
With their ammo' s costing $0.10 per shot/per bullet
It's awesome
It's extremely affordable for heaps of plinking fun

If you wanna plink a lot
But if you don't wanna break the bank at the same time
Then sticking with the .22's is a great choice
(For me for now anyway)

- I wanna buy the Tikka T1X in rimfire
(I just bloody love that smooth action and trigger)
- I already bought the Ruger Precision Rimfire
(Love the tactical look of it and the 15x mag)
- I wanna buy the CZ 457 in .22LR
(Heard is a great precise rifle)
- I wanna buy a henry lever action
(Coz I love cycling the lever actions)

I reckon those 4x firearms
That's a pretty neat collection of rimfires right there

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

But yeah anyway
I'm pretty interested in the Henry Lever Action rimfires
They come in 2x barrel lengths
1x short
1x long
Hence why I started this thread
To see what's the difference is between a short and long barrel in terms of accuracy

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

But I did hear that the Henry Lever Actions in .22LR aren't the most accurate..
(I'm not sure if that's true or not but it is what I heard)

So, if you guys recommend any lever actions in .22LR that shoots very accurately for under $1,000

I'm keen as to hear about it!

[bladeracer]

Henry do the .22LR in 16, 18.5, 20 and 24" barrels - for under $2500 you can get one of each length
https://www.henryusa.com/henry-rifles-and-shotguns/

I'm glad you asked the question, it gave me a needed nudge to test something I've wanted to do for a very long time