‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Mar 2020, 10:04 am

Stix wrote:Basing your decision of a 22lr rifle on how much less sound a neighbour will hear from a 2" longer barrel, is diving super deep into the realms of overthinking it.

If there is a difference, it'll be absolutely negligent...
Walking up a hill & testing sound levels wont help the situation of choice one little bit...
The sound of gun shot will be drastically more affected by wind & atmospheric conditions than an extra 2" of barrel.

If your neighbours dont like either you, or gun shots from a 24" barrel...they still wont like you or the sound of gun shots from a 26" barrel.

Go & buy a rifle, tell your neighbours your gonna shoot, then shoot it...!!
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Permie » 17 Mar 2020, 10:13 am

Stix wrote:Basing your decision of a 22lr rifle on how much less sound a neighbour will hear from a 2" longer barrel, is diving super deep into the realms of overthinking it.:


Thanks for your opinion. I do often overthink things for a bit, it is a temporary state, then I just move on anyway.
The length of the barrel and the sound is one consideration amongst many. If it was as easy as buying a good quality affordable used .22 repeater with around a 28” barrel that I liked right now I would do it, just in case it takes a bit more noise off, but because I can’t find one, I’ll just be buying this old Anschutz 1416 with a 22” barrel. It is a nice old gun and it should do me well and like you say the difference will be minor.
Problem solved, thanks for the help and advice everyone.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Stix » 17 Mar 2020, 10:34 am

If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!

Reverse psychology does work depending on the person, so gun shots getting quieter could go in your favour... (308 down to 22, vs 22 up to 308)

Then when you visit them to invite them over for that slow cooked backstrap, give them a silverside to go home with, & let them have a few shots of the 22 into your safe target, being supportive of you shooting will be a no brainer... :thumbsup:
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 17 Mar 2020, 10:43 am

Good point stix, if you are legally allowed to shoot on the property, its safe than there shouldn't be an issue.

For reference my spot is about 50-75m from house. No double glazing on the window. Normal velocity they can practically not hear at the back door, definitely not inside. HV not inside the house.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by bladeracer » 17 Mar 2020, 12:30 pm

Stix wrote:If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!

Reverse psychology does work depending on the person, so gun shots getting quieter could go in your favour... (308 down to 22, vs 22 up to 308)

Then when you visit them to invite them over for that slow cooked backstrap, give them a silverside to go home with, & let them have a few shots of the 22 into your safe target, being supportive of you shooting will be a no brainer... :thumbsup:


Not in Victoria, can't even let an unlicensed person handle a firearm except at a range.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by rc42 » 17 Mar 2020, 1:29 pm

"let them have a few shots of the 22"

Same in QLD, you can't let an unlicensed person (including minors) have possession of a firearm on private property even under direct supervision, this is only allowed at an authorized range AFTER they have signed their form 33 declaration and the range register.

Loss of your firearms and prosecution await anyone that makes a mistake here.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by bladeracer » 17 Mar 2020, 1:39 pm

rc42 wrote:"let them have a few shots of the 22"

Same in QLD, you can't let an unlicensed person (including minors) have possession of a firearm on private property even under direct supervision, this is only allowed at an authorized range AFTER they have signed their form 33 declaration and the range register.

Loss of your firearms and prosecution await anyone that makes a mistake here.


I thought Qld only allowed you to supervise 12-18 year-olds on private property, not adults though.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by PaddyT » 17 Mar 2020, 2:16 pm

Same in NSW-12 to 18year olds have to have Junior Permit as well-back to original question -get an LA101
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Mar 2020, 2:44 pm

This is why I asked for a please explain to the SSAA when they printed the story, “ take a kid plinking...”
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 17 Mar 2020, 2:46 pm

Ohh i missed that part... i was agreeing with stix that if as a licensed firearm owner i am allowed to shoot on my property then as long as i am reasonable and safe its hard for others to object.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Stix » 17 Mar 2020, 6:49 pm

Ah well there you go...cant let an unlicenced person shoot a gun under supervision on private property eh...?

So every man & his dog in Vic, & where ever that or similar law is in place, follows this law, & DOESNT teach their kids to shoot...??

Crazy stuff...just crazy stuff...

Not that i want to promote a vigilante style mutiny against the laws of the Government...this is just a hypothetical....but i wonder what would happen if every single firearms owner went into a police station & confessed to doing such a thing, on the same day, at the same time, in every state where such a law is in existence...
And every single licences firearms owner backed all the others up, refused to pay the fines, arrived at court with every other licenced firearm owner in & outside the court, demanding sensibility...

I mean really...how many people on open internet tell the tale of their child having their first shots & shooting their first bunny etc...---& this is against the law... :crazy:

We really have let ourselves be bent over & rammed havent we...!!!... :roll:
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 17 Mar 2020, 7:25 pm

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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Blr243 » 17 Mar 2020, 9:24 pm

I think in Qld I’m allowed to let anunlicencened minor shoot and handle my rifle under supervision ( therefore allowing young people to learn ) but if I hand that rifle to an undult it’s not legal
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by rc42 » 18 Mar 2020, 8:51 am

Blr243 wrote:I think in Qld I’m allowed to let an unlicensed minor shoot and handle my rifle under supervision ( therefore allowing young people to learn ) but if I hand that rifle to an adult it’s not legal


This is a real grey area and you might be right, section 52 of the Weapons Act 1990 states "Physical possession and use of weapon sometimes allowed for the purpose of training a minor"
The conditions listed are that it must be a place where it is lawful to possess the weapon (i.e. authorized range or private property) and the minor must be under direct supervision of a parent or guardian who is licensed to possess the weapon.

Other sources suggest that the 'sometimes' part is because the minor also needs to have a minors license, otherwise it would be 'always' allowed if the other criteria are met.

I've done a lot of searching but have been unable to confirm either way, not something I'd like to test in court though.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Mar 2020, 9:16 am

[/quote]

This is a real grey area and you might be right, section 52 of the Weapons Act 1990 states "Physical possession and use of weapon sometimes allowed for the purpose of training a minor"
The conditions listed are that it must be a place where it is lawful to possess the weapon (i.e. authorized range or private property) and the minor must be under direct supervision of a parent or guardian who is licensed to possess the weapon.

Other sources suggest that the 'sometimes' part is because the minor also needs to have a minors license, otherwise it would be 'always' allowed if the other criteria are met.

I've done a lot of searching but have been unable to confirm either way, not something I'd like to test in court though.[/quote]

My opinion based on dealing with courts and police over the years for various...including learning a lot from taking the QLD police force to court in entirety...
I don’t think a case would get to court based on the lack of outright clarity and existing conjecture (read link Asia’s put up as well) - if it did, the magistrate would need to ultimately clarify the mess and that’s not easy as you’ve found out...so, a common sense approach needs to be adopted (safety being paramount) and if you were then challenged, as long as you can explain reasonable process as to how you’ve arrived at your decision - you would nominally be protected from outright prosecution...even if a police prosecutor took a hard line, if there were no injuries or main stream issues raised - other than training a minor in safe operation - I’d guess that a magistrate would not be happy to see a case before them and probably throw it out.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Mar 2020, 9:59 am

"If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!"

Remember, its only 10.5 acres

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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by bladeracer » 18 Mar 2020, 11:08 am

Oldbloke wrote:"If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!"

Remember, its only 10.5 acres

" After a recent move to a small acreage (10.5) in the Yarra Valley region, instead of using friends guns on their land, I’m finally buying my own guns."


Doesn't matter, as long as you can ensure the bullet doesn't leave the property.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Stix » 18 Mar 2020, 11:20 am

Oldbloke wrote:"If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!"

Remember, its only 10.5 acres

" After a recent move to a small acreage (10.5) in the Yarra Valley region, instead of using friends guns on their land, I’m finally buying my own guns."


Not sure what your point is--too small sn area i assume is what you're saying... :unknown:

In any case, i wouldnt be shooting a Sambar across a couple of acres with a 22 rimfire...
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Permie » 18 Mar 2020, 12:09 pm

Stix wrote:
Not sure what your point is--too small sn area i assume is what you're saying... :unknown:

In any case, i wouldnt be shooting a Sambar across a couple of acres with a 22 rimfire...


Yep, small acreage here, (10.5). I need to be careful where I shoot. .22lr should be relatively straightforward, but I doubt I will be using the .308 here much at all, and if/when I do I expect to be looking at a deer. I will have to shoot targets/zero it in somewhere else, at least until I feel more confident with making that much noise.

I have a large area/end of our block that backs onto a very large reserve with a good gully with a small dam where I can shoot across and 100% can ensure my bullets start from and won’t leave my property. I might also make some sort of hide up in a tree in order to get a higher angle and get a bit of a wider range I can shoot while ensuring a safe backstop. There is deer sign all over the place and heaps in the gully, poo, rubbing trees, thrown antlers, eaten sweet pittosporum trees, etc. I have not yet seen samba on my actual property but have disturbed some at dawn in some of our scrub and heard their panic honks, and have seen plenty running around on the roads within a couple of Kms. A good friend recently shot two in 15 minutes on his 20 acre block which is only 1-2km away. I have a trail cam out and I need to figure out their movements a bit better, do a little work to encourage them, and then probably put some very patient long hours in waiting... one day, maybe I will get lucky.
Not exactly the true sporting stalking/tracking/hunting that most seem to value (?) but we have to work with what we’ve got, and having the chance to take deer on my own property was one of selling points of this place for me.

I’ve paid for the Anschutz by the way. 1416 model,
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Stix » 18 Mar 2020, 2:05 pm

Dont worry about the "traditionalist hunters" that want to abuse you...a lot of them will loose animals anyway...not to mention blow out shoulders & waste good meat...if they are truely into tradition they should leave their guns & camo at home & fling rocks at the deer wearing a branch of leaves over their cooty & booty... :lol:

There are arguements every way & everyone has their opinion.

If you have deer running through & bedding down on your turf, id say dont spook them away...if that means your fancy is picking & head shooting a meat animal under spotlight once n a while, do it... :thumbsup:
Harvest the lot...tan the hide...bones for dogs...nice roasts, hamburgers & sausages...!!... :clap:

Good luck to you i say... :thumbsup:
Feel free to invite me any time..ill help carry it out of the gully... :D . :thumbsup: 8-)
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by sungazer » 18 Mar 2020, 2:44 pm

The real issue about shooting on small properties is to meet ALL the requirements of the law. The 250m from another house or dwelling is going to be a big one and be 100m from a road. Unless of course you have the landowners permission.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by bladeracer » 18 Mar 2020, 5:01 pm

I took the 18" Henry out just now to measure the CCI Quiets as ambient was only at 41DbA.
I couldn't really find a position that got the shot any lower than 78DbA, so I don't think the phone app has the accuracy required. I have read that you really need to use an external microphone with these apps.

But I did notice that the noise of cycling the lever is 70DbA, and the bolt-action RPR is 68DbA in comparison to the 80-ish of the shots.
As I said, these rounds are _very_ quiet :-)
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Wm.Traynor » 18 Mar 2020, 7:21 pm

bladeracer wrote:I
But I did notice that the noise of cycling the lever is 70DbA, and the bolt-action RPR is 68DbA in comparison to the 80-ish of the shots.
As I said, these rounds are _very_ quiet :-)


Thank you Bladeracer: that is very interesting. I have a 24" barrelled rimfire that would just love to ventilate a cat or two :twisted:
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by bladeracer » 18 Mar 2020, 7:27 pm

I would say that if your neighbour can't hear you cycling the action of your rifle, they're not going to hear you shooting low-subsonic .22LR ammo either.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Mar 2020, 8:49 pm

sungazer wrote:The real issue about shooting on small properties is to meet ALL the requirements of the law. The 250m from another house or dwelling is going to be a big one and be 100m from a road. Unless of course you have the landowners permission.


Sorry, but i thought the point i was making was obvious. Sungazer is correct. And the distances he has quoted sound right. You should get away with an occassional shot with a subbie out of a 22lr. As hardly anyone will even hear it. You still have.may not be compliant. Forget target shooting on 10 acres unless the neighbours are ok with it. But still probably not compliant.

BUT,,, IMO you will be playing with fire if you use a 308 on 10 acres.

In addition, be aware that an app to measure sound pressure on a mobile will give a very rough quide at best. A half decent sound meter i think starts at about $800.00. A good one 2 or 3 k
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Permie » 18 Mar 2020, 9:41 pm

Totally fine for distance to public road (long block into reserve) and depending where the shooting was done on my place pushing the 250m limit on one house, which is the house I have expressed concern with. Another reason why I will be treading carefully and slowly with them in particular)- seems like that unfortunately means gaining their ‘permission’ rather than just ‘informing them’... dammit. Oh well they are good people, I will remain hopeful.
And yeah, I think I have said enough times that the .308 won’t be getting much use here unless it is pointing at a deer (before which point I will have warned the neighbours that one dawn or dusk that might happen) or way down he track if I know the neighbours are all cool with it/not home/etc. Targets/‘extended sighting-in’ will probably only ever be a subsonic game here, which is actually totally fine and reasonable in my opinion if that is what eventuates.

For what it is worth my place feels a bit more remote with less people and houses around than just down the road where friends and I on their similar properties in higher density dwellings routinely shoot off a variety of large loud centerfires (after warning the surrounding neighbours). More days than not I hear gunshots going off in the distance from my place.

I’ve got a pile of CCI subsonics, and if they are still to noisy I will have to learn how to ‘lob’ the CCI quiets to good effect,
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Mar 2020, 10:09 pm

I think if your nearly 250 meters from the house they will not hear most subbies. Certainly not if they are in doors.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by Stix » 18 Mar 2020, 10:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:I would say that if your neighbour can't hear you cycling the action of your rifle, they're not going to hear you shooting low-subsonic .22LR ammo either.


Dunno about that Blade.
Im not argueing with your results, but i still think there is a difference...

The fact is i can cycle my 22 & bunnys at only 20yds can stay put...
But...let just one sub hp escape out the end of the barrel & those highly strung little blighters suddenly make like steel balls in a pinball machine ping around like they're plugged into a socket, easily at 60yds in a different direction...

There is something about the crack from the velocity, the echo from the bullet impact & ricochet, & that little bit of powder under pressure that is very different to racking the bolt of a rimfire.
That bolt doesnt release anywhere near the energy a bullet & the powder does
:)

And WmT...dont let that stop you ventilating those felines...they are in need of fresh air...!!
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by bladeracer » 19 Mar 2020, 12:11 am

Stix wrote:[quote="bladeracer"I would say that if your neighbour can't hear you cycling the action of your rifle, they're not going to hear you shooting low-subsonic .22LR ammo either.[/quote

Dunno about that Blade.
Im not argueing with your results, but i still think there is a difference...

The fact is i can cycle my 22 & bunnys at only 20yds can stay put...
But...let just one sub hp escape out the end of the barrel & those highly strung little blighters suddenly make like steel balls in a pinball machine ping around like they're plugged into a socket, easily at 60yds in a different direction...

There is something about the crack from the velocity, the echo from the bullet impact & ricochet, & that little bit of powder under pressure that is very different to racking the bolt of a rimfire.
That bolt doesnt release anywhere near the energy a bullet & the powder does
:)

And WmT...dont let that stop you ventilating those felines...they are in need of fresh air...!!
:)


Yes, a 10DbA difference...to 710fps CCI Quiet. Subsonics would be louder, up to 130-140DbA. From what I've read, the Subsonics (or "Standard Velocity") never seem to be differentiated from high-velocity supersonic .22LR. High-velocity are certainly louder, but maybe that extra noise is just the sonic crack, the actual burning of the 1gn of powder perhaps makes similar noise whether it's on one side or the other of 1100fps?

The rabbits here, and when I was a kid, are not as skittish as yours, if they are upset by the shot, they generally run a few bounds, then prop and look around.
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Re: ‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Mar 2020, 9:06 am

I’ve set up a uhf with my neighbour (100m) and he can hear my subs when there is no wind. Add in a 5-10km breeze and...he can’t hear anything.
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