‘Long’’ barrelled .22lr for rabbits and targets.

[Permie]

Following on from my last thread where I have ruled out an air rifle I am looking for a decent quality timber stocked .22lr with a long barrel in order to get the quietest .22 I can (so as to bother my neighbours the least in dark and early morning hours, and be a little less concerned doing targets in the day).
It will be a rabbit and target gun.

For value used is preferred
I want a repeater ideally with a 5 shot mag, thus some of the older single shot iron sight guns that (so I have read?) may have come with longer barrels would be ruled out.
In general I am being pulled in two directions- an old classic like an Anshutz (64 action) (of which I am currently unsure of barrel lengths) or something newer made yet still ‘classic’ like a CZ. Would be totally happy with an old yet accurate long barrelled gun that ticked the boxes, but it is rather difficult to figure out what is what. Iron sights would be nice, but not a deal breaker, as a scope would be used most of the time anyway.
I want a good shooter, not a collection piece, but I more than happy with some age and old build quality and patin (in fact I would quite like that) or comparatively I would be happy with a far newer and good value purchase (such as CZ).

I do really like CZ’s and have shot friends 455’s in various Calibers (I also have a .308W Ranger awaiting my PTA), and if I could find one I would buy a 452 or 455 utra lux with the 28.6” barrel, but I haven’t found any.
Anyone got one they want to sell? (is that even allowed to asked here?, I’ve searched the rules but could figure it out).
Unfortunately I can’t tolerate the current 28.6” barrelled version, the 455/457 Jaguar, due to the jaguar ‘motif’ engraved on the otherwise nice stock (no offence intended if that is your sort of thing).

I’ve come across a few older versions of 452 lux’s or lux 2 with what is probably/sometimes 24-ish” barrels, but I am currently kind of fixated on getting the longer barrel.

I see that the 455 Jaguar barrel is listed as a potentially orderable part from Winchester- https://www.winchesteraustralia.com.au/ ... -0090-03ND
Thus I suppose I may be able get a 455 of some other configuration and order in the longer barrel? That is probably the most expensive way to go though, and I would rather not go down that avenue.

Budget, loosely, depending on model and condition and extra’s included is somewhere between $500-$1000.

I am swinging back and forwards, obsessively scanning the gun sale sites every night, but not getting anywhere inpartucular, and reading old various forum posts.
I’ve read that 28” barrels are really too long for .22lr’s that they will loose velocity, etc... Yet I have also read that many consider the ultra lux to be fantastic. I am not too concerned with loosing a little velocity.
I’ve also read that the CZ 28.6” barrel shouldn’t be used with subsonic ammo, which is a bit concerning...? But then I have read of many doing exactly that.
For reducing noise, is 28” really that much better than 24”? If I can’t or really shouldn’t run subs on the 28.6” barrel would I be better off with the 24” versions?
Too many questions,
Open to suggestions, including entirely different guns,
Cheers

[flutch]

My vote Cogswell Harrison or CZ

[bladeracer]

I don't think you really need a long barrel, especially if you're using low-velocity subsonic ammo, like CCI Quiet and others down in the 700fps region.
I have two old .22LR rifles with 25" barrels, 1950 BSA Sportsman 5, and 1940 Remington 510/513.
While a longer barrel does move the sound of the shot further away from your ears, I doubt the actual noise perceived by others is noticeably different because of this.
I could perhaps try testing this using a phone app, though I don't know how accurate the readings would be. .22LR fired from rifles is generally measured around the 130-140DbA mark, with no mention of barrel lengths. CCI Quiet is rated at 68DbA. Air-rifles are generally around the 100dBa mark from what I've read.

I have tested CCI Quiet in 18", 22" and 25" barrels. In 18" and 22" barrels it does make the stated 710fps, so I doubt there would be any perceived sound difference. In a 25" barrel I get lower velocities, down to about 660fps, but can still get an occasional 700fps shot.
CCI Standard Velocity is rated at 1070fps, and makes that velocity in my 18", 20, 22", and 25" barrels.

I had a Baikel single-shot competition rifle with a 28" heavy barrel when I was a kid. It shot very well, but was far too front heavy to comfortably take rabbiting.

I'd be looking for nice examples of some of the classics, Brno Model 1 & 2, Lithgow Model 12, Remington 510/513T/541, Winchester Model 39, or even a Martini Cadet in .22LR. Otherwise there are new cheap rifles on the market from Norinco, Stirling, and others, and newer rifles are more likely to be setup for scope mounting.

https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collections/rimfire/caliber_22-long-rifle?sort_by=price-ascending

https://www.usedguns.com.au/SearchResults.aspx?term=&sold=False&currentad=True&cat=3&calibre=22LR&condition=0&state=0&page=1

[Sergeant Hartman]

The weight on a longer barrel is probably going to be an issue, an annie 64 with timber stock and 25" barrel (cuz its a heavy varmint barrel) will be heaps heavier than a cz with a thinner 20" barrel of you are going hunting.

I should probably weigh mine and see the difference

[yoshie]

I had an old TOZ 8 M, which had a very long barrel. It was noticeably quiter with CCI standards velocity. The gun was an absolute tack driver, with a vety heavy barrel. it was the same weight and size as the Russian service rifle of the day, but only single shot.

[Wylie27]

Lithgow arms CrossOver LA101.

Its literally what what they designed it for.

Hunting and targets. Hence the name CrossOver...

[Strikey]

Have a look around for a good secondhand Brno Model 2, buy it, thank me later

[Oldbloke]

A few well known brands.

Baikal
Toz
Anshutz
Brno Model 1 & 2,
Ruger
Lithgow
Marlin
Remington
Winchester

You will need a scope. Dont worry about open sights

The problem with Brno is generaly over priced IMO

[Permie]

While a longer barrel does move the sound of the shot further away from your ears, I doubt the actual noise perceived by others is noticeably different because of this.

This is one of the schools of thought I have read, Some others seem to claim there at least some degree of overall noise reduction?

Thanks for the posts and suggestions everyone, duly noted on all counts and being considered or already considered.

Unless a CZ Ultra Lux pops up pretty soon, or I find another older good repeater (from the examples posted above) with a proper long barrel, I am currently very tempted with a tidy an well priced with Anschutz 1416 fairly local to me which has a 22” barrel.
Not the truly long barrel I am after but ticks all the other boxes for me. Maybe with subs it will be enough...?

[bladeracer]

[quote="bladeracer"
While a longer barrel does move the sound of the shot further away from your ears, I doubt the actual noise perceived by others is noticeably different because of this.
[/quote

This is one of the schools of thought I have read, Some others seem to claim there at least some degree of overall noise reduction?

Thanks for the posts and suggestions everyone, duly noted on all counts and being considered or already considered.

Unless a CZ Ultra Lux pops up pretty soon, or I find another older good repeater (from the examples posted above) with a proper long barrel, I am currently very tempted with a tidy an well priced with Anschutz 1416 fairly local to me which has a 22” barrel.
Not the truly long barrel I am after but ticks all the other boxes for me. Maybe with subs it will be enough...?

I think you are being overly concerned about the noise bothering people. If you have very troublesome neighbours who simply hate shooting, talk to them beforehand and let them know you're going to be shooting. Maybe even call the local Police and let them know as well if you think the neighbours might call them on you. You have every right to shoot on private property with the landowner's permission, even noisily, as long as you don't go overboard. Subsonic (under 1080fps) .22LR is very quiet, and one or two shots is unlikely to wake sleepers, even quite close to them.

I was going to wander up the hill and take some sound readings on .22 Quiet and Standard Velocity from 18" and 25" barrels, but the wind is howling at 60DbA already, which might skew the numbers? Using a phone app, my plan is to set the phone up in various positions around the muzzle until I get 68dBa with CCI Quiet, then shoot Standards with the muzzle in the same position to the phone, hopefully giving me 130-140DbA, measurements that are somewhat comparable with official numbers.

[bladeracer]

I just tried and the wind is reading from 70-80DbA.
Firing CCI Quiet two meters away measures 81-83DbA, it really is _very_ quiet.
If the wind drops off I'll try a proper test.

[Wm.Traynor]

FWIW and not to hijack but I think I recall hearing that CCIQuiets are not all that accurate.

[bladeracer]

FWIW and not to hijack but I think I recall hearing that CCIQuiets are not all that accurate.

Depends entirely whether the specific firearm likes them, they shoot okay for me for close-range stuff, certainly not past 50m though. I keep one rifle zeroed at 40m with them.

[rc42]

I had a CCI Quiet round get stuck in a 26" barrel, it was about 2" from the muzzle, good job I noticed that nothing hit near the target and checked.
It is also very prone to velocity variation, some rounds seem to have a lot less powder than others and drop much lower even at 30 yards.

Maybe I had a bad batch but stuck rounds are always more likely with slower ammunition, certainly something to watch out for and it's probably a good thing that it won't cycle a semi-auto.

Also, before anyone comments, it was after that event that I read the "Do not use in barrels over 24" in length" in the small print on the back of the box.

[Permie]

I think you are being overly concerned about the noise bothering people. If you have very troublesome neighbours who simply hate shooting, talk to them beforehand and let them know you're going to be shooting. Maybe even call the local Police and let them know as well if you think the neighbours might call them on you. You have every right to shoot on private property with the landowner's permission, even noisily, as long as you don't go overboard. Subsonic (under 1080fps) .22LR is very quiet, and one or two shots is unlikely to wake sleepers, even quite close to them.

I was going to wander up the hill and take some sound readings on .22 Quiet and Standard Velocity from 18" and 25" barrels, but the wind is howling at 60DbA already, which might skew the numbers? Using a phone app, my plan is to set the phone up in various positions around the muzzle until I get 68dBa with CCI Quiet, then shoot Standards with the muzzle in the same position to the phone, hopefully giving me 130-140DbA, measurements that are somewhat comparable with official numbers.

We have just bought here and we are the new ones to this neighbourhood, we have a lot of plans for the place, it might be a ‘forever’ place for us and I am just trying to tread carefully and be respectful and ease the neighbours into it. If they get totally comfortable with the gentle pop of the .22, great, then I hope they will less likely to freak out when (after warning them) I eventually take one of the Samba that frequent this place with the .308W. The last thing we want here is to start off on a bad footing with them- our last place was made pretty uncomfortable with weird neighbours with a bad attitude on one side (no thanks to us)- it is amazing how that can really sour ones life. One side neighbour here I am not worried with at all, they are far enough away, on a big block and seem very relaxed, the other side are much closer (built right to the boundary) on a smaller block, and upon first meeting talked about a problem property close by that is an airbnb rental where a lot of guests group bookings) have big loud and late parties and often shoot, supposedly at times at native wildlife including killing some wedge tailed eagles. Many complaints to police and the Airbnb owners have been made, etc. They are really nice and love the area for the peace and quiet, evidently don’t like shooting, and have proved they can be very combative- so, despite being entirely within my rights I reckon I have reason to tread a little carefully and try to get the quietest rabbit and target gun I can!
We will see what happens. I will be ‘informing’ them rather than ‘asking’ them about my intended shooting, and hopefully things will be just fine.

If you do manage test the decibels between barrel lengths I would love to know- I haven’t yet seen that case argued with objective evidence.

Cheers

[sungazer]

There are some Anschutz rifles like the 1416 that go for some very reasonable prices. I think they would be a great rifle to start on. the Lithgows may not have the same appeal as the traditional Anschutz but they are a very good rifle.

[Permie]

There are some Anschutz rifles like the 1416 that go for some very reasonable prices. I think they would be a great rifle to start on. the Lithgows may not have the same appeal as the traditional Anschutz but they are a very good rifle.

I’m leaning pretty heavily towards this Anschutz 1416, will probably buy today. If I do I will just keep my eye out for a much longer barrelled .22 in the future.

[Stix]

Basing your decision of a 22lr rifle on how much less sound a neighbour will hear from a 2" longer barrel, is diving super deep into the realms of overthinking it.

If there is a difference, it'll be absolutely negligent...
Walking up a hill & testing sound levels wont help the situation of choice one little bit...
The sound of gun shot will be drastically more affected by wind & atmospheric conditions than an extra 2" of barrel.

If your neighbours dont like either you, or gun shots from a 24" barrel...they still wont like you or the sound of gun shots from a 26" barrel.

Go & buy a rifle, tell your neighbours your gonna shoot, then shoot it...!!

[Oldbloke]

Basing your decision of a 22lr rifle on how much less sound a neighbour will hear from a 2" longer barrel, is diving super deep into the realms of overthinking it.

If there is a difference, it'll be absolutely negligent...
Walking up a hill & testing sound levels wont help the situation of choice one little bit...
The sound of gun shot will be drastically more affected by wind & atmospheric conditions than an extra 2" of barrel.

If your neighbours dont like either you, or gun shots from a 24" barrel...they still wont like you or the sound of gun shots from a 26" barrel.

Go & buy a rifle, tell your neighbours your gonna shoot, then shoot it...!!

I agree. Perhaps take a few stubbies with u.

[Permie]

Basing your decision of a 22lr rifle on how much less sound a neighbour will hear from a 2" longer barrel, is diving super deep into the realms of overthinking it.:

Thanks for your opinion. I do often overthink things for a bit, it is a temporary state, then I just move on anyway.
The length of the barrel and the sound is one consideration amongst many. If it was as easy as buying a good quality affordable used .22 repeater with around a 28” barrel that I liked right now I would do it, just in case it takes a bit more noise off, but because I can’t find one, I’ll just be buying this old Anschutz 1416 with a 22” barrel. It is a nice old gun and it should do me well and like you say the difference will be minor.
Problem solved, thanks for the help and advice everyone.

[Stix]

If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!

Reverse psychology does work depending on the person, so gun shots getting quieter could go in your favour... (308 down to 22, vs 22 up to 308)

Then when you visit them to invite them over for that slow cooked backstrap, give them a silverside to go home with, & let them have a few shots of the 22 into your safe target, being supportive of you shooting will be a no brainer...

[Sergeant Hartman]

Good point stix, if you are legally allowed to shoot on the property, its safe than there shouldn't be an issue.

For reference my spot is about 50-75m from house. No double glazing on the window. Normal velocity they can practically not hear at the back door, definitely not inside. HV not inside the house.

[bladeracer]

If you have that 308...maybe start with that & the Sambar...!!

Reverse psychology does work depending on the person, so gun shots getting quieter could go in your favour... (308 down to 22, vs 22 up to 308)

Then when you visit them to invite them over for that slow cooked backstrap, give them a silverside to go home with, & let them have a few shots of the 22 into your safe target, being supportive of you shooting will be a no brainer...

Not in Victoria, can't even let an unlicensed person handle a firearm except at a range.

[rc42]

"let them have a few shots of the 22"

Same in QLD, you can't let an unlicensed person (including minors) have possession of a firearm on private property even under direct supervision, this is only allowed at an authorized range AFTER they have signed their form 33 declaration and the range register.

Loss of your firearms and prosecution await anyone that makes a mistake here.

[bladeracer]

"let them have a few shots of the 22"

Same in QLD, you can't let an unlicensed person (including minors) have possession of a firearm on private property even under direct supervision, this is only allowed at an authorized range AFTER they have signed their form 33 declaration and the range register.

Loss of your firearms and prosecution await anyone that makes a mistake here.

I thought Qld only allowed you to supervise 12-18 year-olds on private property, not adults though.

[PaddyT]

Same in NSW-12 to 18year olds have to have Junior Permit as well-back to original question -get an LA101

[TassieTiger]

This is why I asked for a please explain to the SSAA when they printed the story, “ take a kid plinking...”

[Sergeant Hartman]

Ohh i missed that part... i was agreeing with stix that if as a licensed firearm owner i am allowed to shoot on my property then as long as i am reasonable and safe its hard for others to object.

[Stix]

Ah well there you go...cant let an unlicenced person shoot a gun under supervision on private property eh...?

So every man & his dog in Vic, & where ever that or similar law is in place, follows this law, & DOESNT teach their kids to shoot...??

Crazy stuff...just crazy stuff...

Not that i want to promote a vigilante style mutiny against the laws of the Government...this is just a hypothetical....but i wonder what would happen if every single firearms owner went into a police station & confessed to doing such a thing, on the same day, at the same time, in every state where such a law is in existence...
And every single licences firearms owner backed all the others up, refused to pay the fines, arrived at court with every other licenced firearm owner in & outside the court, demanding sensibility...

I mean really...how many people on open internet tell the tale of their child having their first shots & shooting their first bunny etc...---& this is against the law...

We really have let ourselves be bent over & rammed havent we...!!!...

[Sergeant Hartman]

Actually

http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... ose-cannon