Sporter v/s Varmint barrels (for 22LR Rimfires)

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Hey Guys

I hope that everyone is well

So I'm looking at adding another rifle to my collection (a 22LR) once the lockdown is over

That latest addition will be for target shooting work (at the range only)

I know that for target shooting work, when it comes to centrefires, it's normally always preferable to go with a varmint barrel as the varmint barrels are thicker, therefore less likely to heat up, therefore less likely to diminish accuracy etc

However, is that the case for 22LR rimfires also?
Does is really actually make a noticeable difference on 22LR rimfires also?
(Whether you go with a varmint or sporter barrel)

Would love to hear your opinions/experiences on this topic fellas

Thank you in advance

[Shootermick]

I’ve got a heavy barrel 22 bolt action. I like that it steadies well on a front bag and doesn’t wave around as much.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Shootermick;
Yeah, I was leaning towards that logic as well..
Logic also tells me that the heavier the barrel, the better it is for accuracy..
(When you take multiple shots in a row etc)
However I wasn't sure if that logic would apply to rimfires also, since the 22LR is such a small cartridge..

[bladeracer]

In short, .22LR does not generate enough heat to matter, even in full-auto. But an abnormally long thin barrel would likely move even from the heat of a lot of .22LR fired rapidly.

Heavier barrels suffer less from resonance and vibration from the forces of swaging a bullet down the bore at high speed, they're more stable. Heat is a different problem, and more steel around the chamber can soak the heat, but the barrel does not heat up equally from chamber to muzzle. Being tapered further changes the way the metal reacts to the heat flowing from the chamber to the muzzle. Pouring heat into a length of steel pipe causes the metal to expand differently as the heat flows through it, as is known by anybody that has done much welding, particularly aluminium. Clamping the material tightly in place during welding does not guarantee it won't move when you release it and allow it to cool.

I have often wondered about using a barrel jacket to maintain the entire barrel at a constant temperature, above the maximum chamber temperature, this would effectively remove barrel heat completely from effecting the shots.

I attended a .22LR Benchrest shoot and a guy had a "rifle" with am immense barrel, about 40mm diameter, and 26" long, it looked way out of place alongside all the other .22's on the line. I was with a mate and wasn't able to see what sort of accuracy he was seeing from it. Just lugging it out to the firing line was a chore.

Keeping a barrel short allows it to be thicker, without becoming too heavy for normal use. .22LR really doesn't need more than 18" of bore with normal ammo. If you were mainly using very subsonic ammo then 16" might be better, if you were mainly going to use hyper-velocity ammo then 22" would be beneficial.

[Blr243]

Hey Guys

I hope that everyone is well

So I'm looking at adding another rifle to my collection (a 22LR) once the lockdown is over

That latest addition will be for target shooting work (at the range only)

I know that for target shooting work, when it comes to centrefires, it's normally always preferable to go with a varmint barrel as the varmint barrels are thicker, therefore less likely to heat up, therefore less likely to diminish accuracy etc

However, is that the case for 22LR rimfires also?
Does is really actually make a noticeable difference on 22LR rimfires also?
(Whether you go with a varmint or sporter barrel)

Would love to hear your opinions/experiences on this topic fellas

Thank you in advance

[Blr243]

My marlin 22 magnum has a nice thick stainless barrel. I think it might be 35 yrs old ( can’t remember how I arrived at that ) it shoot very well. I like the fact that is has a heavy barrell

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

BladeRacer;
Mm
From what you’re saying then
If you were trying to be as accurate as possible with a rifle
Then you’d go with a heavier barrel as they’re more stable
(Which is what I would do too)
But for 22LR, in your opinion, then it doesn’t matter whether you choose sporter or varmint barrel
Is that right?

Blr243;
Mm
Yeah I agree with you
Since I only do target shooting work for now (no hunting as of yet)
I generally always go for the varmint barrels
I love how sturdy and strong they feel

It’s tricky...
The rifle that I really want, I love it, however it has a sporter barrel..... (Which is not my preference)
The variation of that rifle that I don’t really want, has a varmint barrel (Which is my preference)

It’s hard choosing between the two lol

[bladeracer]

In a .22LR I would go for a short, heavy, straight barrel.
I had a Baikel single-shot target rifle when I was a kid, I think it had a 26", or even a 28" barrel, and heavy. It shot beautifully, but was very front heavy and awkward from any unrested position. It was unscoped so the long barrel gave an excellent sight radius.

The Ruger American Rimfire Target only has an 18" barrel, but quite heavy, making the rifle somewhat front heavy, but not overly so.

On the other hand, my BSA Sportsman 5, and Remington 510/513 have 25" barrels, but pencil-thin, and very well balanced. Again, with iron sights the barrel length is a benefit.

I have managed to get a .22 warm enough that it is noticeable to touch, but never as warm as it can get from just being in the sun on a hot day - the sun can get a steel rifle hot enough to burn skin.

BladeRacer;
Mm
From what you’re saying then
If you were trying to be as accurate as possible with a rifle
Then you’d go with a heavier barrel as they’re more stable
(Which is what I would do too)
But for 22LR, in your opinion, then it doesn’t matter whether you choose sporter or varmint barrel
Is that right?

Blr243;
Mm
Yeah I agree with you
Since I only do target shooting work for now (no hunting as of yet)
I generally always go for the varmint barrels
I love how sturdy and strong they feel

It’s tricky...
The rifle that I really want, I love it, however it has a sporter barrel..... (Which is not my preference)
The variation of that rifle that I don’t really want, has a varmint barrel (Which is my preference)

It’s hard choosing between the two lol

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

BladeRacer;
Ah okay
When you say that you’d go for a short barrel, do you mean 16” or 18” or?
And since you said you’d go with a heavy barrel, I guess you mean that you’d go for a varmint barrel, even with the 22LR, is that right?

That baikel sounds lovely to shoot
(For benchrest shooting or prone shooting obviously)


Ah yes, the Ruger American, I’ll probably buy that rifle one day, see what it’s like

Ah yes, I don’t have any experience shooting the Remingtons
A lot of people on here give them a bad reputation though
I remember watching a documentary on faulty Remington safety switches as well
Where the rifle would fire as you would put it into safe mode
So the rifle would essentially fire on its on without even touching the trigger or being anywhere near the trigger
A couple people died in the states due to that faulty safety switch

I got my henry youth lever action in 22LR quite hot this one time
I was just shooting round after round after round
I would shoot 12x round straights
(1x or 2x seconds per shot essentially)
It got quite warm
I found that a bit strange
It was pretty warm to touch
But then again, I was shooting in the sun, so maybe it was just the sun
I'll have to try to shoot it again but in the shade this time to see if it makes a difference (it probably will)

[rc42]

If you want the most accurate 22LR then look at the models used in National or Olympic level events.
Benchrest seems to be all about the heaviest, thickest barrel you can get with a tuner on the end if you can, it makes sense for reducing vibration harmonic effects as the shockwave from cartridge ignition travels along the barrel faster than the bullet so the muzzle will be waving about as the projectile leaves it.

For 3 position, kneeling, prone and standing, there are weight limits that stop the crazy barrel thickness, bull barrels are always used to reduce vibration, usually with thicker steel near the muzzle and/or barrel tuners on the end. Rifles have to be single load and barrel length is around 26" as more mass further forward reduces small movements through increased inertia and the length increases sight radius for peep sights, tuners and barrel extensions increase that further.

You need to be clear about what type of target shooting you will be doing as the optimum rifle will change dramatically based on that, especially if you want to enter competitions and need to be compliant with the restrictions.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Rc42;
Good point
What you said made all the sense in the world
I was thinking along the same lines as well from the beginning also
It made sense in my head that the heavier the barrel is, the more consistency you'll get
Like you said, the fact that National/Olympic benchrest shooters always go for the heaviest and thickest barrel is probably the only indication that we need in order to conclude that varmint barrels are also the most preferable barrels to go for even in 22LR if you wanna achieve as much accuracy and consistency as possible

And I do want to be as accurate as possible

And I will only be shooting benchrest and prone as well anyway so

So most likely I will have to go for the varmint barrel 22LR then, as accuracy/consistency is what I enjoy the most

So frustrating that the rifle that I really want only comes with a sporter barrel

Ugh lol

[rc42]

People that have tested muzzle velocity and accuracy over 50m have found no real advantage for barrels over 18", unless you're competing at the very highest levels barrel length shouldn't be an issue. In reality, for any bull barrel style rifle the ammunition selection, and your ability will have way more effect on accuracy than the barrel itself but a match grade trigger is important.

For benchrest with scopes there are a lot of choices that will take you a long way into the sport, those at the top spend crazy money on crazy and very specific benchrest rifles that wouldn't be suitable for prone too.

Club level competitions are more relaxed about the strict ISSF or TRA rules and will usually allow non compliant rifles as long as they don't look tactical/military but if you travel to other clubs for competitions they may not allow it.

For prone, a shorter barrel can be extended with a 12" barrel tuner and sight extension for improving sight radius and can also take weights to help stability. This is a good option for bull barrels that don't come with dovetail mounts from the factory. For sling attachment a rail under the fore end is needed or you'll never get your position quite right but these can be retro fitted to most wood stocks.
The standard fitting for target peep sights is 11mm dovetails so that's worth having on the rifle itself. There are lots of rifle choices at the entry level, high end is usually German or Swiss but prices get crazy very quickly as you move up the ranges.

[Sergeant Hartman]

What two rifles are you looking at.

Maybe someone will give you a better option.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

The rifle that I really wanna buy is this one:
https://www.nioa.com.au/products/view/MKIIG
- I love the wooden stock on it
- I love the 10x round magazine
- I love the fact that it comes with open sights
So everything about this rifle sounds great to me
However, it only comes with a sporter barrel....
(Which I fear may not give me the best possible accuracy/consistency...)

So I'm considering going with this variation of the rifle instead:
https://www.nioa.com.au/products/view/MKIIFV
This one does come with a varmint barrel
(Which in theory should give me better accuracy/better consistency)
- But I dont like the 5x round magazine
- I dont like the synthetic stock on that one
- I dont like the fact that it doesn't come with open sights

It's so hard to choose between the two ugh

What would you guys choose between the two?
(It's for target shooting work only at the range)
(For shooting benchrest/prone only)

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

If there's not gonna be a noticeable difference between the two rifles in terms of accuracy/consistency
Then I may as well go with the rifle that I really want
This one:
https://www.nioa.com.au/products/view/MKIIG

But if there is gonna be a noticeable difference between the two rifles in terms of accuracy/consistency
Then I should go with the varmint rifle in order to achieve better results, results that I'm gonna be happy with
This one:
https://www.nioa.com.au/products/view/MKIIFV

And like I said
I do know that varmint barrels tend to be better for accuracy/consistency
However, I'm not sure how noticeable that difference would be on a 22LR in terms of results
(between a varmint/sporter barrel)

Which is what makes it hard to choose between the two
Mm

[Sergeant Hartman]

Mate idd probably recommend you a cz over a ruger. Better wood and probably better accuracy. Honestly there will be stiff all difference in accuracy, most guns now a days can shoot less than 1 inch groups at 50m. If you really are after accuracy get a custom monstrosity or a 54 match action anschutz... saying that the 1903 MSR looks very very sexy (a lot of money though)

Btw its your old friend with a name change, and slightly better mood.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Lol I know Ziad

Yeah okay mm
I'll probably just get the rifle that I really want then
Screw it
I'll see how it shoots despite it not being a varmint barrel
I'll see how I go
Should be alright

[Sergeant Hartman]

I have said before somewhere i have a cz452 with cheap ammo it shots less than 1inch, mostly about half due to flyers, the odd group is just clover leaf.

Got an anschutz with better ammo it nearly always shoots 0.5inch with many ragged holes.

Byw that's 5 shot group and outside measurements, so regionally subtract 0.22 inches from whatever i said

[Bugman]

I am happy with the barrel that came with my Lithgow LA101. Depending on the ammo used it groups very well and knocks over bunnies at 50-70m with ease,
.It depends on your personal taste.

[bladeracer]

This might be a nice option.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Interesting sidenote regarding this topic;

- The Tikka t1x shoots extremely well
(Yet it does not have a particularly heavy barrel)
- The Ruger Precision Rimfire shoots very well
(Yet it does have a heavy barrel)

It seems that you can achieve great results regardless of whether you go with a sporter or varmint barrel in 22LR
(If you look at the Tikka T1X and Ruger Precision Rimfire Rifle example)

The thickness/heaviness of the barrel obviously would play a part in the accuracy/consistency of a firearm

But maybe in 22LR, maybe it's not that significant of a difference in terms of results

Interesting topic to ponder on

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

And that is a nice option BladeRacer

[SCJ429]

This Anschutz is going on for 50 but is something you can be proud to own and a 1000 times better than a Savage rimfire. Add some Eley Club and you are in business.

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=171410

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

SCJ429;
Thanks man
Yeah look if I had disposable income right now, I would've been tempted to buy that Anschutz
However man, that savage rifle, it was more of an impulse buy kinda thing
It was only $525
So I thought to myself, adding another rifle to my collection for $525 only
Why not, so I just grabbed it, whatever, it's so cheap

I decided to go for this one:
https://www.nioa.com.au/products/view/MKIIG
(the sporter barrel option)

I have also decided that I will buy its varmint barrel version down the track as well
This way later on, I can conduct my own testing/experiment down the track to see if a varmint barrel does make a noticeable difference in a 22LR
(Some people say yes, some people say no)

Like I said before in this thread
If we were talking about centrefires, then 100% I would've gone with the varmint version, 100%
There's no doubts about that
I wouldn't have even asked
However on a 22LR, the cartridge is so small, the 22LR rifles generally don't generate that much heat at all, etc
I'm really curious to see if there would be a difference in results at all between varmint v/s sporter
(And if so, what the discrepancy would be)

If the difference only works out to be like 0.1" or 0.2" or even 0.3" difference

Then it's no big deal at all but at least I would've found out

[PaddyT]

can put 300 rounds in an hour or so through my LA101 and it remains extremely accurate, biggest factor is finding which ammo a 22 likes best

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

can put 300 rounds in an hour or so through my LA101 and it remains extremely accurate, biggest factor is finding which ammo a 22 likes best

That's good to hear PaddyT
Yeah I heard and read that the LA101 was VERY accurate
Do you know if it's gotta varmint or sporter barrel?

[Sergeant Hartman]

So you are buying two cheap rifles over one good quality one... quantity over quality.

Anyway i know someone who told me once don't reinvent the wheel everytime, just learn from other ppls mistakes

[bladeracer]

can put 300 rounds in an hour or so through my LA101 and it remains extremely accurate, biggest factor is finding which ammo a 22 likes best

I put 310rds through my Ruger Precision this arvo, including my best ever 50m group - 5rds in 6mm.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Ziad;
Nah I'm buying the sporter model right now
Then the varmint model
I'll just buy it in 12x months time maybe
Or maybe even in 2x years time
Purely to test the difference in results between varmint and sporter in 22LR
I'm really intrigued to find out what the difference is in terms of results
Then I'll probably resell the varmint with a $100 discount or something
No big deal

Bladeracer;
That's an outstanding group man
Pwoah

[bladeracer]

Bladeracer;
That's an outstanding group man
Pwoah

My previous best was 7mm with CCI Std Vel, this one might be worth putting on the wall though