Flyers are they a real thing?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Doesn’t help when you’ve got a mate spotting and you drop 4 together and he says “wow, very nice group you got there, don’t F this next shot...” you might as well eject it and throw it at the bloody target...

Yup

[Gamerancher]

Yep, that 5th shot either makes you or beaks you. If you had consistent "flyers" on the 5th shot, sorry bloke but they 'aint flyers.
The bloke that states, " I only shoot 3 shot groups, there's no point shooting 5 shot groups for a hunting rifle", is just admitting his inability to do it.
Also, when you know you have not made a good shot, and it "flies" outside of your group, that 'aint a flyer either.

[marksman]

The bloke that states, " I only shoot 3 shot groups, there's no point shooting 5 shot groups for a hunting rifle", is just admitting his inability to do it.

not shooting competition myself l cant see why if you have shot 3 into 1 hole you would need to shoot any more
that's three headshots and to me and any more shots is only using up ammo and burning out my barrel,
3 x 1 hole shots proves the rifle is sighted and working, when hunting there is no 5th shot,
you need to stay shooting paper if you do need 5 shots

flyers are real but the reason for flyers is what needs to be said eg... bad bedding, wind, scope parallax, loose action screws, scope rings/mounts screws, damaged crown, ammo not being concentric, trigger control, hold, barrel heating up ect.....
sounds like a lot but if your gear is ok its just what you do that puts meat in the freezer

l'd rather practice on rabbit heads than paper, again when hunting there is no 5th shot but flyers and misses happen

[Gamerancher]

So Marksman, you don't shoot any more than 3 rabbits in a session then?
Well taken out of context ol' mate. OP and others were talking about 5 shot groups.
I've seen plenty of blokes sit at a range all day blasting away ammo, firing multiple 3 shot "groups", ( I use that term loosely ), that is when that quote is most often heard.
You must have magnificent gear that just puts three shots in one hole every time without having to "waste ammo and burn up barrels". ( Although, for a bloke that reckons he don't shoot paper, you seem to report doing a fair bit of it )

Also, there are plenty of times when you get to take more than 5 shots when hunting. Mob of 5 or more pigs, goats, rabbits, culling 'roos,... or is that just me?

[marksman]

dont want to take it out of context ol' mate
"there are plenty of times when you get to take more than 5 shots when hunting."
l take it your not shooting it at one target are you but your 5 shot groups are at the one target stop acting the fool
you want to make patronizing comments
"The bloke that states, " I only shoot 3 shot groups, there's no point shooting 5 shot groups for a hunting rifle", is just admitting his inability to do it."
deal with it when you get pulled up if l or anyone wants to do 3 shot groups at the range its none of your business
your earlier post cannot be seen as anything but condescending showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Here is my experience with "flyers" on the week end

I shot 3x groups on the week end

All 3x of them were 0.3" groups
(All 3x of them)

And then on the final 5th shot

I got a flyer on every single one of them..
(As indicated with the pens on this picture here)
(The pens are pointing to the flyers on the picture)

I'll try to work on it
I'll try to see if there's anything that I can do to avoid flyers for down the track

[SCJ429]

It helps if you know what caused your outlier. You could use wind flags and a chronograph. If the wind changes, the flags will indicate left and right, up and down. If the bullets velocity changes, you will see it on the chronograph. If there was no changes indicated by these, you have stuffed the shot and should probably use a rear bag and or buy yourself a $8,000 Walther, Feinwerkbau or Bleiker rifle.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

It helps if you know what caused your outlier. You could use wind flags and a chronograph. If the wind changes, the flags will indicate left and right, up and down. If the bullets velocity changes, you will see it on the chronograph. If there was no changes indicated by these, you have stuffed the shot and should probably use a rear bag and or buy yourself a $8,000 Walther, Feinwerkbau or Bleiker rifle.

Awesome
Thanks for the feedback
I'll look into it!

[bladeracer]

It helps if you know what caused your outlier. You could use wind flags and a chronograph. If the wind changes, the flags will indicate left and right, up and down. If the bullets velocity changes, you will see it on the chronograph. If there was no changes indicated by these, you have stuffed the shot and should probably use a rear bag and or buy yourself a $8,000 Walther, Feinwerkbau or Bleiker rifle.

Wind can gust both ways between you and the target so don't be quick to blame wind. If your groups are generally favouring one side of the target then you can figure they're being affected by wind. If you are just getting one flier per group, wind is unlikely to be the cause.

Velocity measured at the muzzle can also tell lies about what the bullet is doing down range. If the bullet has any deformity or eccentricity it won't follow your other bullets, despite perfect ES at the muzzle. With cast lead bullets with an inconsistent coating of lubricant, fliers are to be expected.

[SCJ429]

When I shoot 200 metre rimfire competition I think that wind is the biggest factor in the size of my groups. When you have calm conditions I shoot better but when the wind is variable the groups open up. When I look at everyone else's targets they follow a similar pattern. Your ability to read the wind is critical to shooting well. I have missed many shots while hunting where I had no idea where the shot landed because I did not see what the wind was doing.

[in2anity]

I find the 22lr a hard gun to use. Particularly from 100m standing, any lateral or vertical motion when you squeeze the round away gets greatly amplified by the time it lobs to the target. Yet 20m chickens do not suffer the same fate - at that distance the round basically just instantaneously "prints" wherever the crosshairs were.

Then when you switch to something fast, like a .204. At 100m, where-ever the crosshairs happen to be, it pretty well laser prints there... that's the beauty of a fast centerfire - they are inherently easier to shoot good groups with.

I know it's all relative, but I'm just listing a real world example at realistic hunting distances. The wind has exactly the same effect.

[Gamerancher]

"your earlier post cannot be seen as anything but condescending showing an attitude of patronizing superiority." Marksman

Please show where I said that I was better than everyone and that I could do it every time myself.
I suppose that's the trouble with written responses, it's hard to convey tone, some folks just read it different to how it's intended and get all fired up witha response. Whatever, settle mate, take a BEX and have a lie down.
By the way, yes, numerous times I've had multiple targets to shoot while hunting/culling, that's when it's good to know that my rifle will hold it's accuracy for 5 or more shots in quick succession. 5 shots, 5 goats, reload, 5 more, if I miss, I know it's due to me not my gear.

Back to topic, once again we have an example of every 5th shot out of the group. ( TheFirearmEnthusiest ) That shows a consistency, not flyers.
Time to analyse what's happening. Is it just shooter error, do you tense up when trying to get that last shot into the group? Only you can answer that.
Is a problem with the rifle, bedding, barrel contacting the stock, etc....
Fix the shooter problem first, it's the easiest one, you have to be real honest with yourself, just what exactly goes on when you fire that last shot?
You said, "I'll try to work on it, I'll try to see if there's anything that I can do to avoid flyers for down the track", sounds like a plan mate.

[TassieTiger]

If you aim to shoot 5 GR - and put the first 3 in the same hole, then shooting the other two won’t really prove anything ? But not shooting them - takes away that pressure / anomaly - which is the shooter. ?

I’ve been load testing with friends - they’ll have 6 x 3 or 6 x 5 loads ready for testing, the very first 3 shots they shoot prints a tiny clover leaf...they are done. They will pull the rest of the bullets back at home - they have accomplished what they set out to do...

[Gamerancher]

All fine and good Tassie mate, but...., the conversation is about 'ol mate having a "flyer" on every 5th shot.
If the shooter is the problem, isn't practising to overcome that problem going to be more productive than calling it quits before that point is reached?
Another thing to contemplate, is that 3 shot clover leaf repeatable or was it just a "chance" group?
Statistically, the more you shoot, the more accurate the result. A sample size of 3 is less indicative than a sample size of 300. Not suggesting anyone needs to go out and do that, just sayin'.
Just trying to help him out, not criticise him.
Personally, the competitions that I shoot are shot in groups of 5,10 and 15, so I do need to know that I can rely on two things:
1. Me to be able to do it and
2. that my rifle/load will do it.
My load testing and practice is usually 10 shot groups FWIW.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

I went to the range again yesterday
(Trying to work on my "flyers")

With the same conditions again
(50metres away)
(Off a bench)
(No rear rest)

I shot 6x groups yesterday
(5x shots per group again)

And here are my results;
0.6"
0.7"
0.7"
0.7"
0.8"
1.0"

In these 6x groups
I've only had 1x flyer this time

Not too bad

I'll see how I go next time I go again

I hate flyers lol

[Gamerancher]

Looks like you may be starting to control them, funny that.
Since you are shooting a .22 rimfire, once you get control of the 5 shot groups, challenge yourself and have a crack at 10 shot groups or go to longer distances if available. It's all about honing your skills, not the rifles.