PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by InisBineest » 29 Jan 2022, 11:43 am

Just got me me how I like it:) Pity I don't get to use it enough, gotta love having kids;)
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Charlie Luncher » 29 Jan 2022, 5:09 pm

If anyone is after the Area 419 bolt handle I asked Brownells AU to list it and they have it on the site now fits the CZ and Begara.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Wyliecoyote » 02 Sep 2022, 7:07 pm

I have recently done a bit of work with various B14Rs
The first thing i noticed is the appalling action timing they all seem to have. Anyone familiar to a Stiller, BAT or Nesika benchrest action or Bix n' Andy trigger with optional sears and trigger hangers and their adjustability with altering sear lock for smooth bolt operation during rapid cycling of those actions will appreciate the requirement for such a small but important feature. This issue stems from the exact build issue the Ruger 77/22 22LRs through to the Hornets had. It is almost as if Bergara used a Ruger to pattern off instead of a 40X or 2500X. The cocking cam fails to fall far enough into the helix which leaves 20 degrees or more of nothing happening with the bolt lift until the camming surfaces begin to work. They built a 90 degree action that operates at 70 degrees, not because of build quality but from simple lack of understanding how actions are timed for rapid shooting. Exactly what this trainer rifle was meant to do.
The sear on the firing pin engages the trigger sear far too early causing a partial cock on close, about 2mm of a 6mm pin drop, that adds drastically to stiff bolt operation. The cure is more or less the same as on the Rugers, similar fix but different method as the Bergara is way easier to alter without compromising spring tension or coil binding. The youtube cures of softer springs and stoning out the bolt detent are bandaid fixes and in no way address the real issue. The common Ruger bandaid was a Wolf spring that was like an overkill which addressed a perceived issue while adding to another. It was a failure. The B14R youtube fix is a softer spring that eases the bolt close but adds to soft strike or FTF issues. Just simply arse about and where or how this came about is completely misguided. Rimfires require strong sharp ignition as anyone who has built competition rifles will tell you. The B14R firing pin is not designed or cannot realistically be reformed to accept a softer spring like an action that utilises a chisel type point.

Another issue is the 1/2"x 28 TPI muzzle thread on some but not all B14R steels. There is considerable hoop sress relief in some where a slugged barrel lets the pellet freefall from an inverted barrel. The symptoms are a very slight but regular POI shift as the section carbons up, great group, no group or inexplicable fliers when the others piled into a hole from the same ammo batch in the same shooting session. As they say, one group does not an accurate rifle make. The two cures are to cut and crown or counterbore and crown retaining the threads for any add ons. If you reckon it's you when one flies and the others pile into a hole, i reckon you are probably wrong. Once rectified, the POI remains constant and the ammo shows a group aggregate and not a selection of random outcomes.
The stiff bolt cycling one could live with and most do until they handle one that has been sorted. But the belled out crown always frustrates.

While this may paint a fairly ordinary view of this rifle, i can honestly say a reworked B14R is as good and possibly better than some custom rimfire actions. The controlled feed is a marvel, the lock up and build quality is outstanding. They are a very good action and are fit for purpose but like anything they are not perfect. Looking though a borescope the chamber and throat are at a high standard. The bores are very good and slug well but have no appearance of any choke once the thread issue is dealt with. At 2 grand they are priced right if they had no issues. At $1200 for a barreled action they are perfect to toss the barrel and trigger and build a serious contender to a V22 or V360. They actually feed, extract and eject. For benchrest, i am in the process of building one right now. The only question i have of Bergara is "why or who came up with the 27 x 3 mm tenon?" Would have to have been a bridge builder.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by allan » 03 Sep 2022, 2:45 pm

You make some valid points - I own Vudoo 2 lug, 360 & steel B14R.
Given the cost of the B14R, I can live with all the Bergara "faults" you explain.
Yes, the Vudoo actions are a little smoother but certainly not twice as smooth as the B14R.
Accuracy??? I only have just over 9,000 rounds on these rifles - Shot 'em all side by side heaps of times - The best shooter comes down to the lot number matched to the rifle - There is little between the Gen 2 Vudoo & the B14R but the Bergara will consistently outshoot the 360. I will also add that it took over 1,000 rounds for the B14R bore to settle - Never seen that in any of the quality 22's I've owned.
I have a RIM X build with 26" MTU Benchmark on its way over from the US - Will be interesting to see how it compares to these other 700 foot print rim fire actions.
One thing's for sure....My B14R isn't going anywhere!
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2022, 3:28 pm

Wyliecoyote wrote:Another issue is the 1/2"x 28 TPI muzzle thread on some but not all B14R steels. There is considerable hoop sress relief in some where a slugged barrel lets the pellet freefall from an inverted barrel. The symptoms are a very slight but regular POI shift as the section carbons up, great group, no group or inexplicable fliers when the others piled into a hole from the same ammo batch in the same shooting session. As they say, one group does not an accurate rifle make. The two cures are to cut and crown or counterbore and crown retaining the threads for any add ons. If you reckon it's you when one flies and the others pile into a hole, i reckon you are probably wrong. Once rectified, the POI remains constant and the ammo shows a group aggregate and not a selection of random outcomes.


The implication here is that this "flier" should be predictable? Nine good shots in a group and number ten will be a flier? Clean the carbon out and get another nine good shots followed by a number ten flier?
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Wyliecoyote » 03 Sep 2022, 8:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Wyliecoyote wrote:Another issue is the 1/2"x 28 TPI muzzle thread on some but not all B14R steels. There is considerable hoop sress relief in some where a slugged barrel lets the pellet freefall from an inverted barrel. The symptoms are a very slight but regular POI shift as the section carbons up, great group, no group or inexplicable fliers when the others piled into a hole from the same ammo batch in the same shooting session. As they say, one group does not an accurate rifle make. The two cures are to cut and crown or counterbore and crown retaining the threads for any add ons. If you reckon it's you when one flies and the others pile into a hole, i reckon you are probably wrong. Once rectified, the POI remains constant and the ammo shows a group aggregate and not a selection of random outcomes.


The implication here is that this "flier" should be predictable? Nine good shots in a group and number ten will be a flier? Clean the carbon out and get another nine good shots followed by a number ten flier?


The only implication here is that there is an issue with small threads cut on a large diameter barrel fitted to the B14R. How did you get to 10 shots with one predictable flier from an instance of a belled muzzle? My experience over many years shooting and putting together precision rifles is that a belling at the crown is the death knell for a rimfire or centerfire. What part of a measurable belled muzzle precisely at the threads are you failing to grasp? All you need to know is B14R with belling at the crown shoots OK but rectified shoots better. I have no idea of rifle expectations you may have but my own and those I associate with in the rimfire game is groups of sub quarter inch at 50 meters for every group. Not just the occasional one.
Maybe this can help with what gunsmiths have to deal with when old Betsy rolls up with an ailment.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/20 ... uch-steel/


I have purposely not given details as to how to rectify the cock on close hang up with the B14R. The reason is simple. Bergara offers no parts back up should you screw it up. They only offer parts under warranty. I had a recent instance of a Copperhead action cocking cam failure. Details and photos were sent off to Holeshot who sent off the piece in 24 hours at no cost because Jerry said that this part should never fail. Vudoo does similar when it comes to issues and both offer spares knowing full well shooters modify, tinker and screw things up. Hopefully Bergara if they wish to claim a stake in the precision rimfire game follow suit with parts backup.
There is a detailed description amongst all the infights over on snipershide as to how to modify the B14R cock on close setup. Not exactly the way I did it, but the end result is the same.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/th ... s.7075139/
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2022, 9:14 pm

You said the flier is due to carbon build-up. In which case it should be predictable to within a few rounds as carbon accumulates, shouldn't it? If you're saying the flier is random within a group then it can't be down to accumulation of carbon. I know the crown affects accuracy, but that isn't a carbon issue is it?


Wyliecoyote wrote:The only implication here is that there is an issue with small threads cut on a large diameter barrel fitted to the B14R. How did you get to 10 shots with one predictable flier from an instance of a belled muzzle? My experience over many years shooting and putting together precision rifles is that a belling at the crown is the death knell for a rimfire or centerfire. What part of a measurable belled muzzle precisely at the threads are you failing to grasp? All you need to know is B14R with belling at the crown shoots OK but rectified shoots better. I have no idea of rifle expectations you may have but my own and those I associate with in the rimfire game is groups of sub quarter inch at 50 meters for every group. Not just the occasional one.
Maybe this can help with what gunsmiths have to deal with when old Betsy rolls up with an ailment.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/20 ... uch-steel/


I have purposely not given details as to how to rectify the cock on close hang up with the B14R. The reason is simple. Bergara offers no parts back up should you screw it up. They only offer parts under warranty. I had a recent instance of a Copperhead action cocking cam failure. Details and photos were sent off to Holeshot who sent off the piece in 24 hours at no cost because Jerry said that this part should never fail. Vudoo does similar when it comes to issues and both offer spares knowing full well shooters modify, tinker and screw things up. Hopefully Bergara if they wish to claim a stake in the precision rimfire game follow suit with parts backup.
There is a detailed description amongst all the infights over on snipershide as to how to modify the B14R cock on close setup. Not exactly the way I did it, but the end result is the same.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/th ... s.7075139/
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Wyliecoyote » 04 Sep 2022, 1:51 am

OK blade, how do we deal with this? My customer has brought in his B14R with a belief it is not performing as it should. The targets are showing irregularities with the occasional good group, a cluster and a couple of random fliers with other groups showing a pattern rather than a group. There is some visible carbon residue in the grooves for about 5 or 6mm from the crown. The blast pattern on the crown face is irregular with one side showing a shorter star pattern than the other. Various ammo was tried from SK, Eley and Lapua. The best result was from SK Longrange match but there are none under a half inch at 50. No two groups are in exactly the same place both vertically or laterally where the groups of 5 shots were shot in light wind. Generally the group center POI is constant to within a half inch radius of the POA. From a clean bore the first shot is not predictable and can vary considerably as to how far from POA it lands. Of major concern is even with the better ammo a shot can fly over an inch from the desired POI with total irregularity in regard to the number of shots fired. Not often but it does happen. It could be ammo but it can happen with all the ammo tested. Each ammo was tested in lots of five with a minimum of three groups. The better performing ammo had three or four shots to season the bore then at least four groups of five were shot.
Slugging the bore finds a loose spot right at the MD threads although the crown itself looks very regular and well machined from the factory. Using guage pins from Deltronic the bore right at the threads is over a thou over size for a depth of 11mm, the exact length of the MD threads. So blade tell me, what is your recommendation here?

You tell me your fix, I am shooting this rifle today and I will tell you what I did and didn't do. If it fails we will try your way.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by bladeracer » 04 Sep 2022, 10:02 am

If the muzzle residue is not symmetrical that's a crown issue isn't it? Does the carbon accumulation inside the barrel result from the crown being "off"?
I would be checking the rest of the action to ensure everything is tight and within spec first. Then I'd probably lap the crown, machine and re-crown it, or perhaps counterbore it? If you believe the issue is down to the threading wouldn't counterboring back past the thread remove the issue?

If the groups are reasonable but being placed in different places on the paper that would be down to the testing method rather than the rifle wouldn't it? If it can put five rounds into a nice spot, then the rifle is reloaded, or moved, or cooled, or cleaned, or placed differently on the rests, and it puts the next group in a similar size but somewhere else that can't be down to the barrel can it?

Wyliecoyote wrote:OK blade, how do we deal with this? My customer has brought in his B14R with a belief it is not performing as it should. The targets are showing irregularities with the occasional good group, a cluster and a couple of random fliers with other groups showing a pattern rather than a group. There is some visible carbon residue in the grooves for about 5 or 6mm from the crown. The blast pattern on the crown face is irregular with one side showing a shorter star pattern than the other. Various ammo was tried from SK, Eley and Lapua. The best result was from SK Longrange match but there are none under a half inch at 50. No two groups are in exactly the same place both vertically or laterally where the groups of 5 shots were shot in light wind. Generally the group center POI is constant to within a half inch radius of the POA. From a clean bore the first shot is not predictable and can vary considerably as to how far from POA it lands. Of major concern is even with the better ammo a shot can fly over an inch from the desired POI with total irregularity in regard to the number of shots fired. Not often but it does happen. It could be ammo but it can happen with all the ammo tested. Each ammo was tested in lots of five with a minimum of three groups. The better performing ammo had three or four shots to season the bore then at least four groups of five were shot.
Slugging the bore finds a loose spot right at the MD threads although the crown itself looks very regular and well machined from the factory. Using guage pins from Deltronic the bore right at the threads is over a thou over size for a depth of 11mm, the exact length of the MD threads. So blade tell me, what is your recommendation here?

You tell me your fix, I am shooting this rifle today and I will tell you what I did and didn't do. If it fails we will try your way.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by allan » 04 Sep 2022, 11:51 am

I think we're getting a bit carried away here.
"Wyliecoyote", I'm guessing You're American so would be aware that the muzzle threading issue has been flogged to death on numerous forums over there. No one in his right mind is going to thread a dedicated BR build.
The B14R is marketed as an entry level PRS rifle and it acquits itself well in that role.
I have read all the so called "fixes" put out there in the US. This bloke even had to "fix" Vudoos which he claimed were poorly built from the factory:
https://www.dpgunworks.com/product-page ... ro-service
Here in Australia, my B14R cost roughly 3.5k to set up. My Vudoo rim fires each cost well north of 7k. They are all capable of shooting 20X5's at 50 metres on a windy outdoor range in the .3's" with selected lot numbers of SK/Lapua. Not BR accuracy by any stretch but if I miss anything with these rifles, it's on me.
I've been buying and/or having custom 22LR repeaters built for over 50 years. Out of the box, my B14R has been faultless, never had a FTF and if it fits the purpose, darn good value for money in my book.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Wyliecoyote » 29 Oct 2022, 11:10 pm

Finally the rifle got out to the range last week. I entered an informal monthly SSAA BR match with the B14R and it did very well taking out the group aggregate and small group of 0.247" at 50 and a 0.613" at a 100 yards in some strong wind and hot temps at midday. What was impressive is the B14 held its own against some Turbos, 2500x's and 54 18s. I shot five different brands of ammo for each group at 50 and a 100 with RWS being the standout at 50 and at 100. In the lead up getting to this match the rifle has shot groups in the point ones at 50 meters whilst trialling my version of the ATS/EC type tuners. For this match the tuner was not used as the weather then was not good enough to test at a 100 yards.

What has been done to the rifle is the action cowl was removed and the face was trued to the bolt bore, headspace reset to 42 thou from the factory setting of 47 thou. The factory chamber is as is except the throat oars have been polished. A precision ground 300 thou recoil lug fitted, factory bolt shroud junked and a hardened Rem 700 style shroud fitted. The barrel was lapped to take out a tight spot about 2 inches forward of the chamber so the bore has a uniform feel with a slight choke at the last inch from the muzzle. The helper spring on the bolt was changed out to a stiffer one. The paint on the alloy chassis of the OEM stock was removed so the action stopped flexing when the screws were torqued down. As described earlier the action was retimed and hammer fall altered. Overall this action is as slick as it gets and is far smoother than my T1x.
The overall performance considering it is a factory rifle with some attention to minor issues is that it is possible to make a B14R into a real nuisance to many custom benchrest rifles. The only drawback is speed. Single loading under SSAA BR rules is a real pain.

Having modified or built a number of rimfire and centerfire actions over the years the two real issues i have with the B14R is the three piece firing pin and the bolt shroud. With the three pieces the firing pin is free to rotate in the bolt head so a chisel point could reorientate wherever it felt like. There is no reason that the middle transfer slug and firing pin cannot be one piece. All it needs is some simple machine work which leaves me puzzled as to why Bergara did it the way they did. The bolt shroud they made is a really sloppy fit on bolt close. Also it is made from some crappy cast zinc alloy that will wear out in 10,000 rounds. I believe in the US they will send out a replacement for the centerfire rifles but not the rimfire where all actions post 21 come with an upgrade??.
The advantages of a properly formed chisel point for uniform ignition and less spring force requirement has been extensively proven over many years. When i get around to making the pins i will put up the end result but i suspect that like with Brnos and others any verticle shape in groups will flatten out. ES usually shrinks considerably.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by allan » 30 Oct 2022, 10:20 am

Wyliecoyote wrote:. A precision ground 300 thou recoil lug fitted, factory bolt shroud junked and a hardened Rem 700 style shroud fitted.


It sounds like you've covered all the bases with the mods and I'm not surprised that you're getting accuracy as described. At the price of these B14R's, a person with the right skills can bring them up to the performance levels of the Vudoo/Rim X/Ultimatum Deuce for considerably less money. Well done, mate.

I'd planned to order one of these to replace the factory shroud but have since bought a couple of Vudoos & a Rim X so happy to leave the B14R basically as received. My opinion of these rifles hasn't changed - There's a lot of value there given the price point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZp9n21af4w

My biggest issue with rim fire these days is trying to find a reliable supply of ammo. No matter how good the rifle, it's only as good as the matched lot numbers you feed it!!!
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Wyliecoyote » 16 Jan 2023, 7:06 pm

Tested a B14R Carbon over the weekend with a variety of different ammo. Dead stock from the factory apart from the trigger lightened off to factory minimum by screwing the set screw all the way out. Action screws set at 60 inch lbs. Shot off a bipod and rear bag. Groups are OK, nothing to get excited about with RWS showing the best vertical dispersion and decent groups apart from the odd one spitting out from the wind but if i had to pick, SK Standard with the barrel cleaned and seasoned looks to be the money with sub inch capability. Vertical dispersion is purely from velocity variance.
Eley Black was quite disappointing but not surprising as Bergara's chambers are best suited to Euro ammo. There was no cleaning between groups or barrel seasoning between ammo types, just load and shoot 10 of each with no hold off for wind once dialed in on the bottom right sighter with CCI SV.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by allan » 17 Jan 2023, 2:33 pm

100 yards, Right? Good lots of the old Standard Plus can certainly shoot well when compared to the more expensive stuff.

I hadn't planned to do this but decided to try the Crossroads Precision Rifles shroud/spring kit together with Triggershims B14R head space kit - Nothing modified and quickly reversible if there's no improvement.

I've put a few hundred rounds of assorted SK through without any FTF's and the firing pin strike with the HS set to .043" is very consistent and cleanly defined - Hard to tell in the downsized images but I'm satisfied with it.

When it stops raining, I'll try some proven ammo to get a before and after accuracy comparison.

https://triggershims.com/Bergara_Rimfire.php

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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by Wyliecoyote » 17 Jan 2023, 5:50 pm

Hi Allan. Forgot to put it up but it was100 meters. Those shots shown and 30 other shots are all this rifle has shot. Head space is around 47 thou on this rifle which is about par from what I've seen. Like the steel, the extractor recess timing is shy of horizontal so at some point i will take a skim off the receiver face to square it up and close the headspace and properly align the extractor slots.
The shroud you got should kill off those WTF? shots. The factory offering belongs in the bin.
If you take 0.6mm off that shoulder at the thread where the cocking sear screws onto the striker rod, it will give you a full 80 degrees of cocking engagement, slightly increases spring force, and will lengthen the striker travel giving a sharper more positive rim strike. A very simple fix to greatly increase ignition reliability that in itself will reduce ES and close groups at 100 meters/yards considerably. That 30 degrees or more of bolt lift no mans land is not an endearing feature of the B14R.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by allan » 17 Jan 2023, 6:27 pm

Wyliecoyote wrote:If you take 0.6mm off that shoulder at the thread where the cocking sear screws onto the striker rod, it will give you a full 80 degrees of cocking engagement, slightly increases spring force, and will lengthen the striker travel giving a sharper more positive rim strike. A very simple fix to greatly increase ignition reliability that in itself will reduce ES and close groups at 100 meters/yards considerably. That 30 degrees or more of bolt lift no mans land is not an endearing feature of the B14R.


Good info!! Yes, I measured the HS on this rifle at 047 & the 004 shim seems about right - If I notice any random hard bolt closures going forward, I can always replace it with the 003 shims - A bit of a "band aid" fix compared to your solution though.
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Re: PMV-22 brief review [Bergara B14R]

Post by FearlessMagpie » 26 Sep 2023, 2:40 am

Hi mate, what's ur shop's name?
How much do you charge to true up the bolt and action?
Beside the job done to the muzzle, what do you think is the most helpful to its accuracy?

Thank you
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