Norinco JW15-float barrel?

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Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 03 Apr 2021, 3:44 pm

Hi all.

At the risk of starting another norinco thread.......I just bought a second hand JW15 as a cheap knock around rabbit gun. Has the plastic stock

Anyway, I've read differing opinions on whether to float the barrel on these, something went a contact point of the barrel. As it's a real struggle to get to a range or somewhere to shoot regularly (I hunt nsw state forests, can't target shoot or sight in there) I was hoping to get things sorted before getting it sighted in, rather than trying and treating a heap of things.

Barrel contacts on the very end of the fore end, plus each of those formers in the stock seems to contact the barrel also. Along each side the stock seems to contact barrel the full length.

There is the little lug at the front of the action/rear of the barrel that seems to bottom out in the hole in the stock. I could just pack that up with washers, leaving contact points at this lug and rear of action.

I guess while I'm at the range I could just pop the action out and put washers under the lug so barrel clears stock and compare.

Anyway, what are the thought of what to do with it-grind out the stock, compare at the range, just use washers, or don't bother as it's fine as is and just go shoot?

Appreciate any advice you guys can offer

Stu

Edit: trying to add photos but it just won't let me. Will get them up at some point
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Apr 2021, 7:59 pm

Some like to be floated, some like pressure at the tip of the forend.

Try both.

Yes you can , just use washers, or put a business card under the barrel near the action to tedt free floating.

Don't grind/sand out the forend till your sure.

And try at least 10 brands of ammo
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 03 Apr 2021, 8:24 pm

Thanks Oldbloke. Managed to get one image up now on original post..

I'll get a washer or 2 sorted and check barrel is clear with it

I think I've got about 7 there to try. Would be nice to line up with someone else trying to pick ammo for new rifle instead of buying 50-100 of each type to use maybe 10.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by boingk » 03 Apr 2021, 9:11 pm

Okay, good info and questions here but first things first...

...does it shoot well at the moment?

I've got a wood-stocked Norinco JW15 I bought brand spankers over 10 years ago for the princely sum of $200. It came slathered in cosmolene in a heat-sealed plastic sleeve, along with two 5-shot mags.

Apart from the original clean (and from then on only yearly) I've done nothing to it. It shoots quite well enough to hit soft drink cans out to 100m, and even 200m with holdover and about a 70% success rate.

Short version? See how she goes and let that determine what you do. Take all the prospective kit to the range / club / field and go from there.

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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 03 Apr 2021, 9:44 pm

Thanks boingk (swear I know that username from another forum somewhere)

I haven't shot it yet. Looks to be a 2013 model going by serial number. Trigger has been worked and is very light and crisp. I was nervous at first about bump firing, but it hasn't shown any issue there. I'm tempted to put a bit more take up into the trigger, but I'll shoot it first. Bolt is quite smooth to operate etc. I'm maybe nervous that they sold it because they couldn't get it to shoot straight.

I'm trying to work up the energy to get to the range next week (if I can figure out if they're open). Because it's a fair trek for me I was hoping to get it sorted as best as possible in the one go, and was wondering if this is something I should do before I go.

Going from what you and old bloke say I've got some washers sized up, will check tomorrow if they get the barrel up away from the stock, and will take everything in order to try it out both ways while at the range. I haven't been to a range in over 20yrs!

I'm guessing best way will be to find the best ammo out of my pile as the rifle is now, then float the barrel and recheck that ammo and compare results. Should I go back through all different types with floated barrel, or will barrel floating not affect which one it likes best?

You can't half tell I'm fairly new to all this!
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 04 Apr 2021, 9:03 am

Just a little detail that flashed into my mind while reading:-
Washers under that lump in the action, will effectively shorten the bolt that screws into it. Therefore, depending on how many washers you use, you might need to buy a longer bolt. :unknown: :)
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 04 Apr 2021, 12:51 pm

Washers are 0.75mm thick. One was enough to allow a $5 note to slide all the way back. So will only be using one, possibly two at most. The front bolt went in plenty (didn't measure, but around 5mm), so in this instance it's fine. The rear bolt only goes in a couple of threads, but it's obviously fine as it's been shooting this way for the past 7 years.

Appreciate the thought, cheers
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Apr 2021, 3:44 pm

disco stu wrote:Washers are 0.75mm thick. One was enough to allow a $5 note to slide all the way back. So will only be using one, possibly two at most. The front bolt went in plenty (didn't measure, but around 5mm), so in this instance it's fine. The rear bolt only goes in a couple of threads, but it's obviously fine as it's been shooting this way for the past 7 years.

Appreciate the thought, cheers


That's enough.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 04 Apr 2021, 4:25 pm

Thanks old bloke. I was wondering if it would need more clearance, so that's good to know
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by boingk » 04 Apr 2021, 7:10 pm

Netrider forum or Aussie home brewer?
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 04 Apr 2021, 9:24 pm

boingk wrote:Netrider forum or Aussie home brewer?

Likely more fishing related I thought. You ever fish LBG?
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 07 Apr 2021, 9:43 pm

Would removing fore sight have any effect on things, in the same way free floating the barrel might? It's a fair chunk of metal for what it is, and I'm assuming it would effect barrel harmonics. But I also wondered if it would act like some sort of dampener on oscillations of the barrel.

It's fairly chunky and stuck up into the sight picture through the scope a bit. But then I thought about things, the work done on the trigger, muzzle appears to have been recrowned, etc etc. I wondered if the previous owner left it on there intentionally.

I'll probably stick it back on if I have the energy/motivation to do some sciencing while at the range (of I ever get there), compare before and after, but I figured it was a good theoretical question for the brains trust here
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Apr 2021, 11:26 pm

If it effects the sight picture I would remove it but ensure you don't lose it.

I don't think it will effect harmonics but could be corrected.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 19 Apr 2021, 1:38 pm

So I finally got out to shoot this yesterday.

Tried range of ammo after getting it onto target at 50yds. Just shot for groups as I figure I'll get it sighted in properly when I decide on what ammo to stick with

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Middle CCI mini mag (used to get on target also), top right Win Powerpoint HV, bottom right Win subsonic 40gn, bottom left highland subsonic HP

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Second target (ignore the ones covered, just shot Browning trombone at the target while waiting to change targets. Middle CCI target Standard velocity, top right CCI Mini mag, bottom right winchester subsonic 40gn, bottom left Winchester Powerpoint HV, top left highland subsonic HP

You can notice a lot off vertical spread in these groups, which could be me or the the rifle possibly has some effect..

I did try putting washer under the front lug to float barrel. Problem was it was on the last targets and I only had a target out at 100 so just shot at that. Shot 3 groups, one without floated barrel and 2 with floated barrel. Only found 2 groups on the target, which I suspect was unfloated and one floated based on position. Unfloated group around 3" and floated group 4-5" with more vertical spread. Shot with the winchester subsonic which i thought gave the most consistent results at 50m

I did have a few instances of going to fire and the trigger just bottomed out with nothing happening. Thought I forgot to cock it, but it wasn't my stupidity. In each of these instances the round stayed in the chamber on opening the bolt, and reclosing the bolt and opening wouldn't get it to extract. Had to pry the rounds out with screwdriver each time. Putting the round back into the mag at one point the round still fired and ejected fine, so it seems the rifle was the issue. It happened with 2 brands, Highland and I think the CCI target standard velocity, 3 times in total I think. The fact it wouldn't trigger makes me wonder if the ejector claws weren't fully around the rim, but wasn't sure if the ejector claws can impact on cocking or triggering of the firing pin.

Keen to hear any thoughts you guys (non gender specific term) would be willing to give.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by in2anity » 20 Apr 2021, 11:23 am

disco stu wrote:You can notice a lot off vertical spread in these groups, which could be me or the the rifle possibly has some effect..


I very much doubt that it is you. A tightly stressed forend->barrel will cause that. Regardless of spread, your groups should have uniform dispersal on both axis.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 20 Apr 2021, 11:45 am

Thanks for that. I was leaning towards the rifle having a lot of impact as I thought the same as what you said-an even spread if it was my shooting. Still, didn't want to sound like I thought my technique was good or that I'm better than I think I am. I guess that mean floating the barrel, or at least taking down the stock a bit, is the right thing to do.

One thing I forgot to mention, the rounds that failed to fire that I removed all had some of the lead on the bullet slightly shaved, or at least polished clean. I'm assuming from being chambered from the magazine. This going to affect their flight adversely? As far as the rifle failing to cock or trigger properly (whatever it was actually doing, is this a big issue that I should go back to the shop I purchased from (they said if its not functional to come back to see them), or not a big issue? I'm trying to be realistic about a rifle that sells for $260 brand new
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by in2anity » 20 Apr 2021, 12:54 pm

disco stu wrote: I guess that mean floating the barrel, or at least taking down the stock a bit, is the right thing to do.


Yeah something like. you need to take the stressing that exists up-front between the forend and barrel, then test again, looking again for verticality. The larger the sample size the better, and perhaps stick to the one brand of (previously problematic) ammunition. When iterating on a problem, it's advisable to change only one variable at a time. IDK the particular strategy with the JW15, but yeah you are likely gonna need to get that barrel up. Start with a washer before hacking it up. I believe there's threads on here about this already viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8899

disco stu wrote:One thing I forgot to mention, the rounds that failed to fire that I removed all had some of the lead on the bullet slightly shaved, or at least polished clean. I'm assuming from being chambered from the magazine. This going to affect their flight adversely?


The lead shaving might be a feeding from the magazine problem, and you bet it will effect your groups. Perhaps try single loading as a separate test? See how that effects your groups? Again, one variable change at a time. Maybe it's fixable by adjusting the follower, as to change the angle they are coming in at.

disco stu wrote:As far as the rifle failing to cock or trigger properly (whatever it was actually doing, is this a big issue that I should go back to the shop I purchased from (they said if its not functional to come back to see them), or not a big issue? I'm trying to be realistic about a rifle that sells for $260 brand new


I guess maybe if they will replace it free of charge, it will be worth it? Such a cheap pricepoint is consideration, but still, it should basic function...
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 20 Apr 2021, 1:20 pm

Thanks. It was purchased second hand from them, not much less but had scope on it. Will give them a call

I'll try and get up the range next weekend and try it again.

Appreciate the help, thanks
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 20 Apr 2021, 6:51 pm

So had a little look this afternoon. The rounds are sitting very nose up. I'm thinking the spring might be a little strong. But some adjustment to the lips that hold the rounds in might help with the angle they sit on.

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Also, the rough as guts bottom of the bolt rides over the top of the round underneath when cycling and scrapes a little off the top of it. I'm wondering if its worth getting to work and smoothing that out. The very end that picks up the round is slightly angled, so it appears that I can take a bit off without affecting operation. The angle that the round enters the chamber is also taking a little off the front on some of the ammunition, but not all of it.
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Looking at the operation of the bolt, it appears that proper operation would be that as the round slides out of the "lips" in magazine it snaps up into the bolt and claws, this should then hold it in the right position to enter the chamber relatively straight. Does that sound correct? It would seem that the function of the magazine as it is is leading to angle of the round, which makes me wonder if getting a CZ 452 magazine might be a better option
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Apr 2021, 7:39 pm

A brno m2 mag. Loaded and empty.

Loos like your follower protrudes more.

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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 20 Apr 2021, 7:58 pm

Thanks old bloke, that's helpful. I actually just pulled the mag apart to have a look at the follower, found the long front part that sticks down angled in quite a lot, allowing the front to rise up. I've adjusted it, now just need to see if it chambers properly.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Apr 2021, 8:42 pm

FYI mine feed OK
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 20 Apr 2021, 9:24 pm

No good with the adjustments I've made. Without that much angle it now pushes the tip into the front under the chamber before it moves up into the chamber.

To my thinking, the front of the lips on the magazine holding the rounds in shouldn't be as long. Being shorter would allow the back of the case/rim to exit the magazine and rise up before the tip of the projectile was jammed hard into the bottom of the chamber (whatever that would be called). Does that thinking sound correct?
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Apr 2021, 10:10 pm

Not sure. If I get time I will take more pics of the mag
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 20 Apr 2021, 10:38 pm

Thanks. It looks a little like the front corners of the tabs on your mag are rounded. Not sure if that makes the difference.

I guess I'm just thinking that the distance from where the rear of the case leaves the magazine to the chamber should be longer than the length of the cartridge, or at the very least longer than what it is on this, because anytime the round starts to enter the chamber at the angle it is it's shaving off or distorting some of the bullet.

If I had 2 magazines for it I would get creative with a file, but I'm reluctant seeing it's not the sort of thing that can be easily undone
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Apr 2021, 12:10 pm

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Once you remove material you can't replace it. I would compare with one that is proven to work ok in your rifle before filing anything.
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by in2anity » 21 Apr 2021, 12:18 pm

At what point does a lack of maintenance become "patena"?
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Apr 2021, 12:21 pm

Um, I think I have the problem. The small step in the follower determines how far the front of the follower protrudes.

Check yours is the same. Dont know how you fix that?
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 21 Apr 2021, 7:43 pm

Thanks for the photos old bloke, really helpful to compare. Appreciate you pulling your mag apart for my sake also.

This is a photo of mine. I just bent the longer part closer to a right angle and the bullet end wasn't sitting up as high. But like I mentioned, now it's not forcing the nose into the chamber, rather is sticking into the back/underneath the chamber before the rear end of the case pops out of the ear tabs in the mag.
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I'll try bending out the very front of those tabs to see if it pops out a little earlier. That's easily reverseable at least. If that doesn't work I might try grabbing a CZ mag.

Thanks for the link in2anity. Local (or closest at least) shop has a norinco mag for the same price, but I feel the cz would be a better option of pricing is no different
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Re: Norinco JW15-float barrel?

Post by disco stu » 21 Apr 2021, 9:40 pm

Got a winner!! I put a bit more angle on the follower, but less than it had previously, got it to match the photo of yours old bloke.

Is now angling them up nicely and not jamming the point up into the edge of the chamber. I thought it wouldn't be able to do that when I was looking at it all before, but there you go.

Now the angle is lower, the file like bottom of the bolt isn't grinding into the top of the bullet quite as much. I'm still tempted to smooth that right out, but it's less of an issue now.

Really appreciate your advice in2anity and old bloke, especially going to the trouble of taking a heap of photos and pulling your mag apart so I could compare. Greatly appreciated
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