Any Brno tgf experts here?

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Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by Chappo » 04 May 2021, 7:56 pm

Can they be accurately dated somehow? From the serial number maybe?
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by No1Mk3 » 05 May 2021, 1:25 am

G'day Chappo,
No, not really. The tgf marked rifles were made from 1947 (earliest known) to 1950 and appear to have had their own serial number series, although that is still debated. All that can be said is if it is early series or late series, Cheers.
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by Chappo » 05 May 2021, 2:43 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day Chappo,
No, not really. The tgf marked rifles were made from 1947 (earliest known) to 1950 and appear to have had their own serial number series, although that is still debated. All that can be said is if it is early series or late series, Cheers.


Thanks mate.
This one (.22) came with the mag that has the bakerlite / plastic bottom. Is that period correct for an early model 1 or should i be looking for an all metal one?
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by straightshooter » 06 May 2021, 8:56 am

The plastic bottom is from a model later than the model 1.
The TGF magazine should have a sheet metal bottom similar to a Model 1 but without any stamped markings.
I sold a TGF a couple of years ago. It had a serial number beginning with 11.
I recall doing a search perhaps 10 or more years ago when google still actually worked as a search engine instead of being a targeted advertising engine.
I found a site with plenty of information. It placed my serial number as 1946 or 1947 production.
I have been unable to find that website in recent years.
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by Chappo » 06 May 2021, 5:57 pm

straightshooter wrote:The plastic bottom is from a model later than the model 1.
The TGF magazine should have a sheet metal bottom similar to a Model 1 but without any stamped markings.
I sold a TGF a couple of years ago. It had a serial number beginning with 11.
I recall doing a search perhaps 10 or more years ago when google still actually worked as a search engine instead of being a targeted advertising engine.
I found a site with plenty of information. It placed my serial number as 1946 or 1947 production.
I have been unable to find that website in recent years.



Thanks mate. I have actually now found and bought the correct mag
I’ll have a bit of a google. My serial number is 21xxx
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by Tiger650 » 06 May 2021, 6:58 pm

Excuse my ignorance but what is TGF ?
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by Chappo » 06 May 2021, 7:38 pm

Tiger650 wrote:Excuse my ignorance but what is TGF ?


Short story (and the specifics are widely debated / unknown) is that during the German occupation of Czechoslovakia in ww2, their arms manufacturers including cz were ordered to make arms for the German military. Some early model 1 bruno’s do not have the manufactures trade mark but are instead stamped only with “tgf” which is thought to be a code used by the Germans to identify which manufacturer the firearm came from.
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by Chappo » 06 May 2021, 7:47 pm

My model 1 (1954)
And my tgf. Identical rifles only the tgf has no date stamps, no brand name and very few other markings.
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by No1_49er » 06 May 2021, 10:36 pm

From the info' that I have :-

Design of the ZKM-451 started in 1943 when Brno arms was ordered by the German Wehrmacht to design a new standard military training rifle. This rifle was adopted in 1945 by the Czechoslovakian Military as a training rifle and in 1946 a commercial version was produced for the civilian market. Production ceased in 1958.
Production of components of ZKM-451 rifles started in 1944 and some rifles were assembled at the end of 1944 and beginning of 1945.
These rifles were marked on the top of the receiver with three letters “tgf” (WW II German military code and serial number).
Brno designers have stated “tgf” stands for German code “tschechische Gewehr Fabrik” (Czech rifle/weapon factory”).

Note also that there are 8mm Mauser rifles marked 'tgf'.
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Re: Any Brno tgf experts here?

Post by No1Mk3 » 07 May 2021, 2:57 am

G'day Folks,
The tgf mark is a strictly post war code, that has no actual meaning, used by the Czechs for weapons, including bayonets, machine guns, rifles etc, destined for export, particularly for other Communist occupied countries and the Middle East. It was used from 1947, perhaps 1946 but no proof of that exists that I have seen, until the last batch of 1950 contract rifles for the East German Border Guards. No credible examples of any weapon bearing the mark can be shown by proof or makers ID to be prior to 1946/7, I have a late 1944 made bayonet using Brno's German allocated code of dot, and a rifle from Brno's 2nd plant at Bystrica using their code of dou, nowhere in any German wartime literature can the mark tgf be found allocated to any factory at all, and we have almost everyone now, Terry Lapins book is a good source of reference for that. further, the long believed (by Americans) meaning of the letters is very poor German grammar according to native German speakers and was denied by people who actually worked at the plant during that time such as Zdenek Jakubec who posted extensively on Gunboards and other forums until his recent sad passing, and Pavel Zeman who worked at the plants, both Brno and CZ from 1940 until 1986. Cheers.
PS: I also have an E Lion 48 bayonet marked tgf
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