22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Bills Shed » 18 Apr 2014, 8:32 am

Westy wrote:I'm just looking for a nice light quite round to shoot foxes and bunies out past 150meter any othe ideas?


Hi Westy,

I have the K- hornet and have acquired a 17 hornet a couple of months ago...

Both are great calibres but I must admit the 17 is the first one that I grab at the moment. It is so fast and flat. You see the result of the shot before the recoil is felt. Recoil is very slight.

I do not shoot factory ammo and all are reloads. Rolled a rabbit last week well in excess of 200m. Drop is only 2.2" at 200m. Makes short work of light skinned animals. It will give you over 750 shots out of a 500 gram tin.

Bill
Swaging your own projectiles is the ultimate in flexibility.
Bills Shed
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 433
Tasmania

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by keen » 18 Apr 2014, 6:12 pm

Is 17HMR ammo not cheap enough that you'd just use factory ammo?

I thought that was kind of the idea of rimfire...
Henry .22LR Lever Action
.308 Howa Sporter
User avatar
keen
Private
Private
 
Posts: 84
South Australia

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Wobble » 18 Apr 2014, 6:13 pm

.22 LR ammo is peanuts (You know this obviously, I see you have a 22LR in your signature).

.22 mag, .17 HMR etc. though is still 2-3 times the price.

Not that you'd call that "expensive" but it is more...
Weatherby Vanguards in .300 Weatherby Magnum and .243 Winchester
User avatar
Wobble
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 268
Western Australia

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Bills Shed » 18 Apr 2014, 10:30 pm

keen wrote:Is 17HMR ammo not cheap enough that you'd just use factory ammo?

I thought that was kind of the idea of rimfire...


I have never owned a 17 HMR but I know that it is expensive to just throw the brass away. If you swage your own jacketed projectiles the KHornet is only about 4 cents per shot more to shoot than the long rifle.

The projectile is cheaper than the primer.

I love my little 22LR but if you want to reach out a bit the hornet family fit the bill nicely.

Bill
Swaging your own projectiles is the ultimate in flexibility.
Bills Shed
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 433
Tasmania

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by keen » 20 Apr 2014, 6:53 pm

Thanks Bill.
Henry .22LR Lever Action
.308 Howa Sporter
User avatar
keen
Private
Private
 
Posts: 84
South Australia

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Norton » 20 Apr 2014, 6:53 pm

keen wrote:Is 17HMR ammo not cheap enough that you'd just use factory ammo?

I thought that was kind of the idea of rimfire...


It's still well cheaper than centrefire, but expensive as far as rimfire goes.
CZ 550 American Safari Magnum in .416 Rigby

Other puny calibre rifles... What man would want you now?
User avatar
Norton
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 838
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Westy » 28 Apr 2014, 7:47 am

Well took the 22 Hornet out for it's maiden voyage this weekend and it proformed better than expected,was a awesome little shooter and seemed to preform way above it weight,All I can say is "LOVED IT" and now who wants to buy a Tikka 223 super varmint!!!!LOL
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1276
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Chronos » 28 Apr 2014, 8:07 am

Westy wrote:now who wants to buy a Tikka 223 super varmit!!!!LOL


I'd say this guy

First .223 bolt action

Chronos
User avatar
Chronos
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2082
New South Wales

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Lorgar » 28 Apr 2014, 9:11 am

Good stuff Westy.

We all knew you were going to be happy with an Anschütz though ;)
User avatar
Lorgar
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2156
Victoria

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Davies » 28 Apr 2014, 9:12 am

Westy wrote:now who wants to buy a Tikka 223 super varmint


Stick it in the used guns classifieds.
User avatar
Davies
Private
Private
 
Posts: 77
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Westy » 28 Apr 2014, 5:23 pm

Still deciding which way to Go?

The 223 is still a sweet thing.
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1276
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Oldbloke » 02 May 2014, 6:22 pm

Westy, Thanks for the tip on Trail Boss, I didn't notice that in the manual. Too slow for me though. I sent off an email to ADI regarding "light" loads for the .223 and just received this reply. See full reply below.

Reduced loads can be achieved for any cartridge with jacketed projectiles where AR2206H is a standard propellant. Refer to the loads for AR2206H and use 60% of the maximum listed charge weight to achieve reduced velocities of between 1500 and 2500ft/sec. Velocities will obviously vary for different projectile weights. This type of reloading should only be attempted using AR2206H, as it is the slowest powder that still provides uniform light up at reduced loads.

As an example, we have 27.5 gns of AR2206H listed as maximum for a 40gn jacketed projectile in the .223 Remington, so using 60% of this would mean a starting charge weight of 16.5 gns of AR2206H. You can then increase the charge weight until you find your desired velocity.
Please do not attempt to load below 60% of the listed maximum charge weight of AR2206H as light up problems may occur.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Warrigul » 02 May 2014, 8:36 pm

Well done, ADI's response pretty much concurs with my results when I needed a hornet type load. I used 40 grain magnum projectiles with great success.

Be aware that people with no practical experience on a subject to back up their comments have pretty much killed any desire, for many, to hand out loads. It is a pity.

Good luck.
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Apollo » 02 May 2014, 9:40 pm

And when you have a shot at me for suggesting someone seek professional advice rather than take it from a Forum member I'd re-think your comment you made...!!!
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Chronos » 02 May 2014, 9:51 pm

Warrigul wrote:Be aware that people with no practical experience on a subject to back up their comments have pretty much killed any desire, for many, to hand out loads. It is a pity.

Good luck.


without wanting to take the thread off track again i didn't read anything here like that at all warrigal

what i did read is you saying

"I generally don't give load data out(because there are so many variables and dangers)"

then Apollo said

"If you want to experiment with reducing velocities by around 1/3 and powder loads, yet alone using a powder not recommended for the cartridge I would suggest you send ADI an Email to ask their advice."

Which oldbloke did and guess what? ADI agreed with you and from what I know of Apollo he has about 40 years of reloading knowledge behind him but was wise to offer the best advice he could on this topic (on which he admitted he had no experience and not wanting anyone hurt), ask ADI

i see no reason to continue a an argument where everyone agree's with each other :lol:

Chronos
User avatar
Chronos
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2082
New South Wales

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Westy » 03 May 2014, 7:59 am

Tell me when you reduce your loads to 60% what are they grouping like???Wouldn't the projectiles want to tumble
Just Curious???? :?: :?: :?:
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1276
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Warrigul » 03 May 2014, 11:54 am

Westy wrote:Tell me when you reduce your loads to 60% what are they grouping like???Wouldn't the projectiles want to tumble
Just Curious???? :?: :?: :?:


It really depends on the twist and the weight of the projectile, if the powder load is light and if the velocity x twist rate(to make it simple) is too low you simply drive it a little bit harder until you get decent groups. I can run a 55 grainer down to 1000fps in my .223 and it is still accurate out to 100, albeit with a hideous drop. The only reason I was using 40 grain .22magnum projectiles is I wanted expansion and they were very cheap

If it isn't stabilising usually you get REALLY bad groups and fliers(like 6" plus), when you see "keyholing" you are definately in trouble.

If it isn't stabilising then you just drive it a bit faster.
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Warrigul » 03 May 2014, 12:00 pm

Chronos wrote:without wanting to take the thread off track again i didn't read anything here like that at all warrigal

what i did read is you saying

"I generally don't give load data out(because there are so many variables and dangers)"

then Apollo said

"If you want to experiment with reducing velocities by around 1/3 and powder loads, yet alone using a powder not recommended for the cartridge I would suggest you send ADI an Email to ask their advice."

Which oldbloke did and guess what? ADI agreed with you and from what I know of Apollo he has about 40 years of reloading knowledge behind him but was wise to offer the best advice he could on this topic (on which he admitted he had no experience and not wanting anyone hurt), ask ADI

i see no reason to continue a an argument where everyone agree's with each other :LOL:

Chronos


To start with AR2205 is a powder listed by ADI for the .223 for a 40 grain projectile,

Secondly velocity was being reduced by 1/5 not 1/3.

Thirdly it should be noted that people who don't know anything about a subject being discussed would do better to just butt out instead of muddying the waters, especially when they don't have their facts right and they can't offer any alternative.

What you also left out of your quote was the fact that I was going to post a few pics of development targets and leave it up to interpretation.

I would have simply uploaded the development target pictures and Oldbloke would have a tried and true load to use(as a few down here now do) but after appollos comments I saw no need to draw further critiscism.
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Westy » 04 May 2014, 7:53 am

Warrigul wrote:
Westy wrote:Tell me when you reduce your loads to 60% what are they grouping like???Wouldn't the projectiles want to tumble
Just Curious???? :?: :?: :?:


It really depends on the twist and the weight of the projectile, if the powder load is light and if the velocity x twist rate(to make it simple) is too low you simply drive it a little bit harder until you get decent groups. I can run a 55 grainer down to 1000fps in my .223 and it is still accurate out to 100, albeit with a hideous drop. The only reason I was using 40 grain .22magnum projectiles is I wanted expansion and they were very cheap

If it isn't stabilising usually you get REALLY bad groups and fliers(like 6" plus), when you see "keyholing" you are definately in trouble.

If it isn't stabilising then you just drive it a bit faster.


Whist your groups might not be great, I like yourself love dicking around with diffrent loads to see what will happen and see if you can push the envolope!!! :geek: :mrgreen: :geek: Got my 223 out yesterday and remembered how much I love that thing!!!! :D ;) :D
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1276
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Warrigul » 04 May 2014, 12:46 pm

Westy wrote:
Whist your groups might not be great, I like yourself love dicking around with diffrent loads to see what will happen and see if you can push the envolope!!! :geek: :mrgreen: :geek: Got my 223 out yesterday and remembered how much I love that thing!!!! :D ;) :D


Yep, gotta love a challenge.

If you are really keen then a chronograph is a must.
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Varmtr » 09 May 2014, 1:56 pm

Westy
If you do get a Hornet get a tin of Hodgdon Lil-Gun thats if you can find it. I use it in my K-Hornet better velocity, accuracy and no pressure signs compared to AR2205. I know of 4 other hornet users that have swapped over to Lil-Gun with the same results I have found.
Lil-Gun can be hard to come by as it's imported by Winchester.
Varmtr
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 195
Victoria

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Westy » 09 May 2014, 7:33 pm

Varmtr wrote:Westy
If you do get a Hornet get a tin of Hodgdon Lil-Gun thats if you can find it. I use it in my K-Hornet better velocity, accuracy and no pressure signs compared to AR2205. I know of 4 other hornet users that have swapped over to Lil-Gun with the same results I have found.
Lil-Gun can be hard to come by as it's imported by Winchester.


Thanks for the heads up Varmtr have been on the look out for some but finding it is as hard as finding new brass for this Cal!!!! :lol: :D :lol:
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1276
Queensland

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Rob84 » 10 May 2014, 10:55 pm

I have out through 4000 through my 223 and it suits me just fine
Comparing are comparing a 223 to a 17 hornet then it's always going to be loud and no comparison diferent case capacity and a 55gr vs a 20gr projectile
Then comparing to a 300 black which wont launch a 110gr over 2130fps with a smaller poweder capacity than the 223 again

It sounds like you are sold on the 17 hornet so sell you 223 and buy it if that is what suits you
Expensive at cases $48 per 50 for what they are
Rob84
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 5
New South Wales

Re: 22 Hornet vs .223 Remington

Post by Westy » 11 May 2014, 7:42 am

Rob84 wrote:I have out through 4000 through my 223 and it suits me just fine
Comparing are comparing a 223 to a 17 hornet then it's always going to be loud and no comparison diferent case capacity and a 55gr vs a 20gr projectile
Then comparing to a 300 black which wont launch a 110gr over 2130fps with a smaller poweder capacity than the 223 again

It sounds like you are sold on the 17 hornet so sell you 223 and buy it if that is what suits you
Expensive at cases $48 per 50 for what they are

Ummm we are talking about a 22 hornet here :?: :?: :?: Sorry Mate to have to be the one to tell ytou this!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
User avatar
Westy
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1276
Queensland

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Rimfire rifles, and air rifles