Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 08 Nov 2021, 6:26 pm

Some comparison photos.
Attachments
1082021191255.jpg
1082021191255.jpg (319.31 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
108202119206.jpg
Kar98k action
108202119206.jpg (112.32 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
1082021191319.jpg
JW25A action (10rd CZ452 mag)
1082021191319.jpg (208.01 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
108202119141.jpg
JW25A sight ramp
108202119141.jpg (212.69 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
1082021191445.jpg
1082021191445.jpg (268.83 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
1082021191425.jpg
Kar98k sight ramp
1082021191425.jpg (196.67 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
108202119153.jpg
108202119153.jpg (280.46 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 08 Nov 2021, 6:28 pm

Rear ends.
Attachments
1082021191116.jpg
1082021191116.jpg (217.43 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
1082021191128.jpg
1082021191128.jpg (261.02 KiB) Viewed 3740 times
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 08 Nov 2021, 8:48 pm

Managed to put 1250rds through her in the first week, pretty happy with that :--)
Had to prune a bunch of low pine branches (if you don't own a battery chainsaw you're missing out on some fun) to get out to 300m due to the six-foot rise in the middle of their flight.
But I also tried putting 10rds on the 220x420mm steel at 185m, offhand unsupported tonight. Dropped four shots, but got six more hits than I expected :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by Wm.Traynor » 09 Nov 2021, 8:49 am

Someone :roll: is having the time of his life :mrgreen:


Good luck to you mate :thumbsup:
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 09 Nov 2021, 9:04 am

Wm.Traynor wrote:Someone :roll: is having the time of his life :mrgreen:


Good luck to you mate :thumbsup:


My dealer used those same words yesterday when I asked her to run a permit for a Lithgow 1945 No1Mk3* :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 09 Nov 2021, 4:38 pm

150rds today at 210m, but I think that's already past the limit of the ammo consistency with the Eley standard. I had two rounds go supersonic (one almost sounded like a WMR), and perhaps as many as ten went very subsonic out of the 500rd box. One of the "fffftttt" rounds actually hit the Turkey, so was about 500mm low at 210m. The fffftttt's also don't seal the chamber so gas comes back around the bolt. It's Eley's cheapest ammo so not unreasonable, but I'll have to switch to something else to push the distance.

I was using 26.75-minutes at 185m (50m zero) and calculated 32-minutes at 210m, but it actually only needed 30.5 in today's conditions. Today was a fairly steady 5-7mph from right to left mostly but with regular fits of 10mph from the right to 5mph from the left.

A plow disc was too easy, even for the first shot of the day (it was my "sighter"), so I stopped at one mag.
1092021162032.jpg
1092021162032.jpg (325.35 KiB) Viewed 3720 times


The 220x420mm plate was a little more challenging with the wind, but overall quite easy to hit. I fired 40rds and got about 20 hits. You can see I was dialing down the excess holdover during these rounds, as they were shooting high. The "group" would've been around 300mm I'd say, probabaly a little less
20211109_151827_resized.jpg
20211109_151827_resized.jpg (252.84 KiB) Viewed 3720 times

I tried a mag on the 6" gong with a perfect score of ten clean misses :-)
I forgot to get a photo of that!
I even tried a couple mags of a "ding" on the plate, same hold on the gong for a miss, back to the plate for a "ding", back to the gong for a miss, and so on, keeping my perfect score on the gong. For comparison, the gong is .018m2, compared to the plate at .092m2, and the plow disc at about .100m2. The gong is less than a fifth of the area of the plow disc.

The wind was being pretty stroppy. I tried one magazine of waiting for the flag to drop for each shot - highly recommended if you're looking for a way to suck all enjoyment out of your shooting :-)

So I went up and painted the targets. I put a few more mags onto the plate, then, feeling cocky I tried 10rds on the 6" gong, and managed two hits, the centre one appearing right on the crosshair.
1092021162115.jpg
1092021162115.jpg (193.83 KiB) Viewed 3720 times


Then I put one mag on the ram with six hits
20211109_160242_resized.jpg
20211109_160242_resized.jpg (331.41 KiB) Viewed 3720 times
.

Then for the last mag I thought I'd try the 5" gong, and amazingly my 150th round of the day was a hit, a great finish :-)
20211109_160247_resized.jpg
20211109_160247_resized.jpg (287.36 KiB) Viewed 3720 times


Regarding underpowered ammo spitting gas back around the case, S&B Shorts are very, very nasty for this in the BSA Sportsman 5 - wear glasses if you try it.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 09 Nov 2021, 5:56 pm

I forgot, the second last mag I put on the other steel plate for nine hits. The third shot was a fffftttt that didn't reach the target. I actually couldn't see this plate as from my firing position a branch was concealing it. I could just see white through the fir needles and could hear the dings. The bullets were passing about 300mm above the branch.
Attachments
1092021162237.jpg
1092021162237.jpg (289.15 KiB) Viewed 3717 times
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 11 Nov 2021, 8:06 pm

150rds of Federal F510 today, just to try high-velocity, at 210m. I didn't bother zeroing the Federal at 50m, figuring it'd be within an inch or two. I forgot to have a look at the trajectory, but I came up five-minutes to 25, and fired a few sighters. Hit the ram so I came up another five and settled on 20MoA up from the Eley Std 50m zero.

The wind was all over the place with little correlation to what the flag was indicating.
But bullets were hitting the plates fairly easily, when they weren't being pushed too far by the wind bouncing between a one-minute left hold and five-minutes of right hold. I was getting hits holding dead on while the flag was saying I needed 3-4MoA hold to the right.

At one point a mud lark was sitting on the fence strainer post directly above the plate, wondering what was making it ring and thinking the bullet fragments might be insects, silly bugger.

The crazy wind made it a lottery, but I felt the F510 was grouping a little tighter than the Eley Edge at that range, and with just two-thirds as much elevation.

BC for the Eley Standard seems to be around .138 to .140 or so. I'm guessing it might be slightly higher for the F510.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by Wm.Traynor » 12 Nov 2021, 8:45 am

I forget where you said that your flag was located bladeracer but FWIW, wind in the first third of the range has the most effect on the bullet. This applied to centrefires particularly but as for rimfires, I cannot be certain, however it might give you something to go on, I hope.
Otherwise you could install more flags but if they all blow in different directions they are a threat to your sanity :lol: ;)
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2021, 11:33 am

I placed the flag downrange where I can see it within the FoV of the scope. I think at 200m it might be too far away from my shooting position to be relevant now, but I have a wind speed meter with me. The small one I carry on my belt all the time can't be viewed while I'm shooting though, as the screen and the vane are in the same plane. You have to be looking to your left or right to see it. I have some larger units that can be placed on the bench beside me, that have remote vanes so the screen can be seen while I'm shooting. I can place flags all the way as I'm shooting along a fenceline, but they won't be visible in the scope and will be on my right side, so not visible to my left eye either..

Wm.Traynor wrote:I forget where you said that your flag was located bladeracer but FWIW, wind in the first third of the range has the most effect on the bullet. This applied to centrefires particularly but as for rimfires, I cannot be certain, however it might give you something to go on, I hope.
Otherwise you could install more flags but if they all blow in different directions they are a threat to your sanity :lol: ;)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by Wm.Traynor » 12 Nov 2021, 3:33 pm

Very awkward isn't it :) trying to watch indicators while aiming.
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2021, 5:05 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:Very awkward isn't it :) trying to watch indicators while aiming.


I try to shoot with both eyes open anyway, but it can be difficult to focus one eye on the real world at 100m, while the other is focused on the reticle at 200m, but magnified 18 times :-)

If I'm shooting off bags it's easier as you just set the rifle where it needs be, and concentrate on the wind instead.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 12 Nov 2021, 8:33 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJOSDfzCsOA

Stuck some videos up from yesterday.
Pretty boring for others, but useful for me to refer back to. I just bought one of these "octopus" tripod things that let you mount a camera in difficult places, so I was just seeing if it worked. I didn't really expect to see anything at 210m on the S8+, although you can see the mud lark bouncing around at the target in one video.

This one started awesome with three consecutive hits on the 150mm gong at 210m (2.5MoA), followed by seven hits on the rubber as the wind got going :-)
It's Australian, so comes with the regular daily intake of swearing.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2021, 5:30 pm

Stretched the little beauty out to 334m this arvo, in abysmal conditions. 13C and very windy and wet. I can't see the target to lase it but Avenza tells me 333.7m, and it told me 210.2m on my targets that I have lased at 210m, so it's in that region of 330m-odd. I have figures of 44.8MoA at 300m and 57.1MoA at 350m (from a 50m zero, which I haven't checked yet), so I went up to 35MoA on the turret plus the 15.4MoA on the reticle hold-over for around 50.5MoA of elevation. 10rds not expecting any hits. First shot gave me a very belated ding, in what seemed a minute or more after the shot, long enough to have already decided it was a miss.
1013202117837.jpg
1013202117837.jpg (184.08 KiB) Viewed 3619 times

My hold with the top of the duplex post at the top of the timber strut leaning against the rubber sheets. You can see the retical (with a 210m zero) is well up in the trees for the 4.9-meter holdover. With the subsonic Eley Standard it would be 6.2m.
1013202117854.jpg
1013202117854.jpg (173.43 KiB) Viewed 3619 times

101320211799.jpg
101320211799.jpg (194.49 KiB) Viewed 3619 times

I heard one hit something solid in the 250m region which is probably a low-hanging branch. I didn't notice any impact from the other missing round, but it might've missed the plate and buried itself in the mud behind. The remaining eight shots were easily heard over the wind.

Blowing up the scope view, you can see the top left quarter of the steel plate peeking above the grass atop the dam, just below the centre of the photo (the plate is 125m further past my gongs).
10132021174254.jpg
10132021174254.jpg (218.45 KiB) Viewed 3619 times

Without the wind flattening the grass I could barely make out a white horizontal white line indicating the top edge of the plate. The side duplex indicates a 3MoA wind hold, so I'm holding about 6-minutes of wind to hit this. At 344m, one-minute is 100mm.

I haven't done much long-range shooting with high-velocity .22LR, concentrating on learning CCI Standard Velocity. With seven shots in a 220mm group, and a flier at 405mm (#9 definitely didn't reach the target, #10 probably didn't reach either, but may have simply missed) I'm very impressed with the F510. Velocity at 334m is down around 760fps from its 1240fps launch velocity. I hope we get some calm weather next week!

My shooting position is standing on the top rung of an eight-foot step ladder against the shed wall resting the rifle on two front bags due to the roof sloping away from me, no rear bag as the buttstock is not over the roof (I need a formworker's AcroProp).

As this was my last box (I have one left that I want to shoot alongside the new stuff at 50m for comparison) of the old F510, I put 10rds on the 210m plate to test the wind, then 10rds of the new, and another 10rds of the old. If there is any difference I didn't notice it.
1013202117112.jpg
1013202117112.jpg (135.72 KiB) Viewed 3619 times

I also took an interesting shot of bullets penetrating into the rubber sheet at 210m, and not quite having enough energy to bounce themselves back out. This is the front face of the sheet catching any bullets that miss the gongs.
10132021171134.jpg
10132021171134.jpg (264.49 KiB) Viewed 3619 times


I don't know what is up with the pics through the scope showing everything having a slope. The top rail of the timber cattle forcing yard is level (I built it), but the fence strainer post above the dam does run downhill slightly from right to left as the right side of the dam is built higher than the left.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by Wm.Traynor » 13 Nov 2021, 7:13 pm

Re Hi Speed 22RF ammo
I have the feeling that Mark and Sam After work found that this was better than standard velocity stuff But after just taking a quick look on Yt, I can't find it. Not even sure if they tested at your kind of ranges or whether they went way out further.
The main thing is that you look like you are having fun, doing all that experimenting and learning :thumbsup:
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2021, 8:14 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:Re Hi Speed 22RF ammo
I have the feeling that Mark and Sam After work found that this was better than standard velocity stuff But after just taking a quick look on Yt, I can't find it. Not even sure if they tested at your kind of ranges or whether they went way out further.
The main thing is that you look like you are having fun, doing all that experimenting and learning :thumbsup:


Yes, they use Velocitors I think. I have Velocitors, and they shoot very well, but I'm using cheaper stuff, I don't have their budget :-)
Not sure if they're past 1000m yet but they've been close with .22LR.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2021, 8:18 pm

I'm not using an adjustable mount so I'm limited to around 50MoA of adjustment, then it's all holdover. I'm just playing around though as it was never my expectation that this rifle would shoot so well :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 13 Nov 2021, 8:24 pm

Federal F510 is around $620/5000rds, Velocitor is around $1520/5000rds.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 15 Nov 2021, 4:40 pm

This is the William's peep sight I was hoping to try.
1015202116464.jpg
1015202116464.jpg (123.07 KiB) Viewed 3541 times

Not wide enough for the dovetail unfortunately.
I'll have to file it out to fit, which might be easier to make one from scratch.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norinco Jw25A - Kar98k replica .22LR

Post by bladeracer » 17 Nov 2021, 7:47 pm

I did a 100rd practice offhand, unsupported, iron sight on the silhouettes first today, with the JW21 lever, with no wind at all.
https://youtu.be/HtEj2hde9Ho

Then I had some fun at 210m with the JW25A to get a feel for the wind, which was heavy but reasonably steady at around 6-9MoA from the right. Then I moved out to 334m for 40rds, with a few different elevation holds to try to determine the right one as I can't see the target. But the wind meant I couldn't hear a lot of the hits, which was giving me bum data, as I only dropped six rounds off the plate.
10172021191757.jpg
10172021191757.jpg (213.3 KiB) Viewed 3482 times


I'm at 24-minutes at 210m from a 50m zero (one revolution of the turret plus 9-minutes). For 334m I've come up to 36-minutes (two revolutions plus 6-minutes), then holding on the 15.4MoA holdover on the BDC, for a total of 51.4MoA. But as I was not hearing a lot of the hits I also tried the 11.4MoA and 7.6MoA holdovers (total 47.4MoA and 33.6MoA). But I was also adjusting my point of aim from the visible top edge of the plate to a very approximate centre hold on the plate (with wind allowances).

I thought I was learning stuff, until I went up later and saw all the hits, with 700mm of elevation :-)

I need to raise the plate 900mm so I'll be able to see it, and see my hits. And hope that doesn't then put my bullets higher into the trees and stop them from reaching the target.

To finish off I wound the elevation back down to my 50m zero to confirm, and it was pretty close at 50m. I only fired two groups, both around 25mm, or 2Moa, so nothing special.

I then wound back up to my 24MoA and fired a group to measure the height at 410mm high at 50m. Then I wound up to 36MoA + 15MoA holdover and confirmed it's 850mm high at 50m.

Got a dead cow to deal with tomorrow before I can raise the height of the target.
Attachments
10172021194714.jpg
10172021194714.jpg (119.09 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
10172021194652.jpg
10172021194652.jpg (92.81 KiB) Viewed 3472 times
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Rimfire rifles, and air rifles