22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by Bruiser64 » 10 Nov 2021, 3:37 pm

The original poster did ask about shooting bunnies and foxes out to 150 metres with the hmr versus 22 magnum. He also specifically indicated he was not interested in a downloaded .223. Of these 2 rounds the magnum is more versatile as you have a wider range of projectile weights. In my experience shooting out to 150 can get a bit iffy. I would be reluctant to shoot a fox with either beyond about 80 metres. Hence my recommendation for the WSM over either the hmr or magnum at that range. Up to 130 metres I would choose the hmr as a bunny gun as it is flat shooting. At that range both are affected by wind, but the magnum more so.

The info below is taken from the Hornady ballistic calculator. All are zeroed at a 100 yards with a 10 mph cross wind

HMR- 17gn vmax - Drop at 150 yards -2.6 inches. 8 inches wind drift at 150 yards. Energy 99 ft/lb

22 magnum 30 gn vmax. Drop at 150 yards -4.8 inches. 13.9 inches wind drift at 150 yards. Energy 94 ft/lb.

17 wsm 20 gn vmax. Drop at 150 yards -1.2 inches. 4 inches of wind drift at 150 yards. Energy230 ft/lb.

According to the calculator the WSM is more potent by a considerable margin than either the magnum or hmr at 150 yards.

In respect of relative cost of ammo, I prefer to think of it in terms of cost per trip, than per round. If you only shoot off ten rounds, then it doesn’t really matter if its 50 cents a shot or $2 a shot. The fuel and vehicle running cost are likely to be more than the outlay for the ammo. If the rabbits are so prolific that I am going to be shooting dozens off rounds, a 22 lr is likely to be a better choice. In my experience when the bunnies are thick on the ground there will be plenty to be had in range of 22 cci velocitors or stingers.
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by deye243 » 10 Nov 2021, 5:27 pm

Hummer all the way there are dozens of different loads you will find one that will shoot in your particular rifle wsm on the other hand you're stuck with what Winchester makes and lately that's all been crap and comparing it to a 223 is like comparing a 223 to a 3006 some of us just want to pick up a rifle a box of ammo go shoot something less noise not worrying about too much where the pill ends up if you miss and I don't get this putting 150yd range on it .
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by bladeracer » 10 Nov 2021, 7:13 pm

deye243 wrote:Hummer all the way there are dozens of different loads you will find one that will shoot in your particular rifle wsm on the other hand you're stuck with what Winchester makes and lately that's all been crap and comparing it to a 223 is like comparing a 223 to a 3006 some of us just want to pick up a rifle a box of ammo go shoot something less noise not worrying about too much where the pill ends up if you miss and I don't get this putting 150yd range on it .


The only WSM ammo I've seen is Federal, so not just Winchester offer it. Hornady do the 20gn VMax in WSM, which extends the range about 75m over the HMR.

The VMax bullets are designed for a minimum 1600fps, below which they effectively become FMJ. For the HMR 17gn, that's not much past 150m, for the 20gn it's less. Not a problem with headshots, preferably still impacting supersonically. But that 450fps between dropping below design minimum and going subsonic doesn't extend the range by a great deal.
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by deye243 » 10 Nov 2021, 7:29 pm

I've been using a 17 h nmr since 2014 never had any problems whatsoever dropping rabbits between 200 and 220 yards just my findings
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by bladeracer » 10 Nov 2021, 8:30 pm

deye243 wrote:I've been using a 17 h nmr since 2014 never had any problems whatsoever dropping rabbits between 200 and 220 yards just my findings


I'm sure there are others getting similar results also, HMR is a great cartridge if you have the niche environment in which it excels - I don't, but I should grab an HMR anyway, just as an exercise in education. I'm also sure that far too many people buy one without making any effort to learn to use it well, and just wound lots of animals by attempting shots well beyond their own abilities. The cartridge is more capable than most shooters are for sure.
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by Bill » 10 Nov 2021, 8:38 pm

In anything but zero breeze dropping bunnies at 200m with a 17HMR I call BS, Ive owned 4 x 22 mags, 1x17 HMR and 2 x 17 WSM in the last 30 years and only 1 cartridge is capable of regular 200m plus shots. Hint it aint a 17 HMR :oops:
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by bladeracer » 10 Nov 2021, 9:16 pm

Bill wrote:In anything but zero breeze dropping bunnies at 200m with a 17HMR I call BS, Ive owned 4 x 22 mags, 1x17 HMR and 2 x 17 WSM in the last 30 years and only 1 cartridge is capable of regular 200m plus shots. Hint it aint a 17 HMR :oops:


I would agree, based on my own skill in wind reading. But there are shooters that can read wind uncannily that would have little difficulty making shots I wouldn't even consider.

I shoot many thousands of rounds in wind here, and am able to read it to some degree through familiarisation. But take me somewhere else and I'm going to want to spend a lot of time studying and learning the wind conditions of the area before taking shots at live targets.

I was shooting from a position last week where I couldn't feel any wind at all due to trees and structures. But I could hear the wind coming through the trees, and I could see its effects on the environment out to the target. It is an odd sensation feeling no wind at all, but forcing myself to make 750mm wind holds at 200m.
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by deye243 » 10 Nov 2021, 9:42 pm

Bill wrote:In anything but zero breeze dropping bunnies at 200m with a 17HMR I call BS, Ive owned 4 x 22 mags, 1x17 HMR and 2 x 17 WSM in the last 30 years and only 1 cartridge is capable of regular 200m plus shots. Hint it aint a 17 HMR :oops:

I see the if I can't do it no one can syndrome is alive and well on this forum it's actually easier to shoot a rabbit with a 17 HMR at 200 plus and what it is to shoot a rabbit size Target at 1000 yards with the 260 REM.
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by womble » 11 Nov 2021, 4:40 am

Thanks for the great info you’ve given on the 17hmr deye243, in the other thread also.
I think it’s a great fit for a specific purpose.

I like the magnum though, probably just sentimental as I’ve always owned one. But i like it for flexibility. Multi purpose. There’s not much it cant do as a handy little farm gun or ute gun.
I just carry two magazines. One with subsonics, the other with high velocity in case i see a fox. I’m not very specialised.

But now i also think I’d like to try target shooting with the 17hmr. Be a fun thing to experiment with. Relatively cheap fun too.
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by bigrich » 11 Nov 2021, 4:43 am

The best cartridge for the OP’s intended use is the 22 hornet or the 17 hornet in my opinion. But the 17hmr is the one he wants for his application Out of the choices he gave.
I got out of hornet, 35gn vmax into that little case with thin walls is a pain in the @ss for a boofhead with big hands like me :lol:
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by northdude » 11 Nov 2021, 7:08 am

bigrich wrote:The best cartridge for the OP’s intended use is the 22 hornet or the 17 hornet in my opinion. But the 17hmr is the one he wants for his application Out of the choices he gave.
I got out of hornet, 35gn vmax into that little case with thin walls is a pain in the @ss for a boofhead with big hands like me :lol:

Was thinking the same re 22 hornet. Slots right in there. A lot of people seem to underestimate the little round...
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by Bill » 11 Nov 2021, 7:20 am

deye243 wrote:
Bill wrote:In anything but zero breeze dropping bunnies at 200m with a 17HMR I call BS, Ive owned 4 x 22 mags, 1x17 HMR and 2 x 17 WSM in the last 30 years and only 1 cartridge is capable of regular 200m plus shots. Hint it aint a 17 HMR :oops:

I see the if I can't do it no one can syndrome is alive and well on this forum it's actually easier to shoot a rabbit with a 17 HMR at 200 plus and what it is to shoot a rabbit size Target at 1000 yards with the 260 REM.


I'm basing it on what Ive seen it do and what my full time Shooting mates do also. Its easy to de hype the legend of the HMR when you take to a range and shoot it at 100m and 200m in a nice mild breeze. :lol: Its even better when you have a 17WSM along side to then compare wind drift on the same target. Sure you can hit a rabbit at 200m but its far from consistent. :thumbsup:
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by Bill » 11 Nov 2021, 7:44 am

this graph below shows thte 17 hmr will have a few inches drift in a light 8kmh breeze at 100, then it basically more than triples in drift at 200. If the breeze is double then forget it put the HMR away. The hmr only works at range in dead still conditions.

Image
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by deye243 » 11 Nov 2021, 12:35 pm

Sounds to me like you blokes are fair-weather Shooters get out and shoot in the breeze just the other day we were out knocking off stuff at over 700 yards with a 25k + an hour breeze so what if we had 18 to 20 Moa of wind on our turrets the weather shouldn't matter the only way to learn get out and do it .
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by bladeracer » 11 Nov 2021, 3:03 pm

[quote="deye243"]Sounds to me like you blokes are fair-weather Shooters get out and shoot in the breeze just the other day we were out knocking off stuff at over 700 yards with a 25k + an hour breeze so what if we had 18 to 20 Moa of wind on our turrets the weather shouldn't matter the only way to learn get out and do it .[/quote

Not me :-)
I got bored with shooting in still conditions years ago, wind adds value :-)
But for shooting at live game I don't like wind to play a deciding role, and the easiest way to beat wind in the field is to use it to allow you to get closer to your quarry.

I've just come in from a 150rd session with .22LR at 210m. Wind was bouncing around from zero-hold to 5MoA to the right of target, with total disregard to what the wind flag was saying :-)
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by bigrich » 11 Nov 2021, 3:52 pm

wind definately makes things interesting . i've shot my 22 mag out to ,and just over 100 a few times . allowing for a bit of drift is part of the fun, a medium sort of breeze i allow for 3" of drift at that range shooting cci 40's . suits me for what i do . whether or not another caliber is technically better or suits someone's application is up to them. to me my 22mag is the "hunter" rimfire i take away with me for use on what might pop up within it's limits .

as capable as it is , i'm glad i don't have to find those little hornet cases that seem to disappear on me :D

if everyone just owned a 17hmr , 223 , and 308 , it would be boring i reckon . i've always thought 17 hornet was very interesting from a technical aspect . seen some long range stuff on youtube from the UK that made me take notice ;) brass life is better too apparently :thumbsup:
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Re: 22mag or 0.17HMR - 2021 options

Post by Harronek » 16 Nov 2021, 6:34 pm

My vote is for the .22 Mag , its more versatile than the .17 HMR .
The reality of shooting any rimfire rifles is the average distance that you shoot at are a lot less than 150 m
If you think that your average distance is actually going to be at 150 m then you need to go up to a Centerfire .22 cal
Yes I’ve used my Anschutz .22 Mag out to about 130 m but I could count the times on one hand .
I would say my average would be between 75m - 90 m and in that scenario the .22 hits with authority .
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