Questions re: varmint barrels

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Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by jwai86 » 28 Oct 2022, 8:50 am

It's my understanding that a thicker heavier barrel is less affected by vibrations caused during shooting and accumulates heat more slowly than thinner barrels. The added weight also contributes to overall stability and recoil management.

I got the impression that a varmint rifle is mostly for prone or bench shooting because the additional weight is not ideal for carrying around for extended periods or shooting offhand. Is this as much of a strict trade-off as I think it might be?
Last edited by jwai86 on 28 Oct 2022, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by Lazarus » 28 Oct 2022, 9:28 am

jwai86 wrote:It's my understanding that a thicker heavier barrel is less affected by vibrations caused during shooting and accumulates heat more slowly than thinner barrels. The added weight also contributes to overall stability and recoil management.

I got the impression that a varmint rifle is mostly for prone or bench shooting because the additional weight is not ideal for carrying around for extended periods or shooting offhand. Is this as much of a strict trade-off as I think it might be?


G'day jwai

I prefer varmint barrels and find that, for me at least, the extra weight and rigidity have improved my shooting, particularly at longer ranges.

Because of my age and physical disability issues I only shoot them from prone or off bags so the weight isn't relevant and if I want to carry a rifle for walk around shooting I use a standard sporter barreled gun.

Hope this is of some relevance to you.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by in2anity » 28 Oct 2022, 10:05 am

A heavy barrel makes load development simple, or framed differently should be less fussy about factory ammo choice. A heavy barrel will hold a tighter group for longer - long enough to competitively shoot one of the various target matches. A heavy barrel is less susceptible to a wandering point of impact, as the barrel heats. A heavy barrel will shoot an inherently tighter group, less affected by bedding setup.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by bladeracer » 28 Oct 2022, 10:33 am

jwai86 wrote:It's my understanding that a thicker heavier barrel is less affected by vibrations caused during shooting and accumulates heat more slowly than thinner barrels. The added weight also contributes to overall stability and recoil management.

I got the impression that a varmint rifle is mostly for prone or bench shooting because the additional weight is not ideal for carrying around for extended periods or shooting offhand. Is this as much of a strict trade-off as I think it might be?


Heat dissipation is the main issue, more volume of steel is better able to handle heat build-up and release. Varminting is similar to shooting groups off a bench, several shots fired over short time spans as when taking rabbits or prairie dogs over warrens and burrows. When I was a kid I had a spot on top of a cliff edge above a creek overlooking a large network of rabbit warrens on the hillside opposite. I would lay up there and shoot 10-20 rabbits with the .222Rem before they would finally pack up and stay underground. Occasionally I'd get a fox during this shooting as well, they'd gotten used to finding blown up bunnies early in the morning. My rifle would get pretty warm, even with the slightly reduced loads I preferred. While I would also take significant numbers of crows in short sharp bursts, they would all jump in the air after a shot and circle for a few minutes to allow my rifle to cool before landing again. I never considered the Remington 788 to have a particularly heavy barrel, and it was a carbine - 18" I think (it also had iron sights which was very cool)?

If you can slow down your shooting, open the action ASAP after firing, and let air flow through the barrel for a few minutes between shots I doubt you'd benefit from a heavier barrel. Or simply reduce your loads, heat and pressure are what cause problems. When I first got my .204 and was working up loads I did find shots starting to move around, but I don't recall how many rounds it took. Unfortunately I lost the logbook covering my first 460rds in the rifle in a hard drive crash. I would think 15-20rds would be fine, with my warm loads. My reduced loads I can probably shoot all day long with no change in POI.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by jwai86 » 28 Oct 2022, 12:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:If you can slow down your shooting, open the action ASAP after firing, and let air flow through the barrel for a few minutes between shots I doubt you'd benefit from a heavier barrel. Or simply reduce your loads, heat and pressure are what cause problems. When I first got my .204 and was working up loads I did find shots starting to move around, but I don't recall how many rounds it took. Unfortunately I lost the logbook covering my first 460rds in the rifle in a hard drive crash. I would think 15-20rds would be fine, with my warm loads. My reduced loads I can probably shoot all day long with no change in POI.

I posted this thread with .22 LR in mind, although I don't doubt that waiting between shots will still help when using that calibre.

What I'm looking to confirm is if a heavy barrelled rifle is always going to be less versatile when it comes to shooting from positions other than prone and bench. I wish to avoid limiting my practical options when comes to trying out shooting from a variety of positions.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by in2anity » 28 Oct 2022, 1:33 pm

jwai86 wrote:What I'm looking to confirm is if a heavy barrelled rifle is always going to be less versatile when it comes to shooting from positions other than prone and bench. I wish to avoid limiting my practical options when comes to trying out shooting from a variety of positions.


You are right, they do limit you to prone and bench. Don't get a varmint barrel for field positional shooting. Over and over again I see new shooters join under the MRCA, with their nice new varmint rifle, thinking the extra "meat" will give them the advantage... News for yu - it's a huge mistake, because 1/3rd of matches are from the standing offhand position, where yar can't put the rifle down between shots. This means you'll be holding the rifle for a full minute or more, and guess what - you'll get jelly arms! - and the group goes to sh!t before you finish... When using a manual bolt repeater, you really don't want to be far north of 4kg for offhand. Also for offhand, the balance of a rifle is kinda critical - an overly front heavy rifle is hard to manipulate and settle quickly and accurately for follow up shots. The rifle should balance nicely on the support hand, pretty much where the magazine is. Target shooters add weight inside the buttstock to achieve this balance, when their barrels are heavy. I've done this before on certain milsurps, by adding lead inside the buttstock.

Even from sitting, a big front heavy rifle can be detrimental - the mass is all up the front so it takes longer to settle the sight for quick follow up shots. Again, a well balanced rifle is more important that laser accuracy here. Both standing and sitting overwhelmingly see error stemming from the shooter, not the rifle. The accuracy advantage from a heavy barrel is really a moot point for these two positions.

Now, prone... yeah that's a different matter. A much steadier position, with a very sturdy triangle from the sling, will mean the accuracy gains from the heavy barrel can be realized. I NEED an accurate rifle for prone match shooting - for me has to be south of 2moa grouper at least. But you can get this from a middle weight barrel like a heavy sporter.

You wanna see my 3-position comp gun? Here it is:

thumbnail_DSCN2973.jpg
3-position gun
thumbnail_DSCN2973.jpg (88.39 KiB) Viewed 2418 times


4kg, with reduced weight at the front end. Not too heavy, not too light, nice long sight radius.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by cz515 » 28 Oct 2022, 1:40 pm

Varmint is heavier. I had a cz with a thinner barrel and shooting off the bench after a good session the barrel would get warm to touch but no change in accuracy. Taking about 30+ rounds in 20odd minutes. While the varmint annie doesn't even get there.

So my suggestion if you are hunting carry whatever you can easily manage for extended periods.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by jwai86 » 28 Oct 2022, 1:57 pm

in2anity wrote:You are right, they do limit you to prone and bench. Don't get a varmint barrel for field positional shooting.

On a similar note, will dropping a rifle into a chassis limit its usage too? Models like the KRG Bravo and MDT XRS have some polymer parts to reduce their weight, but I'm not sure if those are light enough for use beyond prone and bench shooting.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by in2anity » 28 Oct 2022, 2:10 pm

jwai86 wrote:On a similar note, will dropping a rifle into a chassis limit its usage too? Models like the KRG Bravo and MDT XRS have some polymer parts to reduce their weight, but I'm not sure if those are light enough for use beyond prone and bench shooting.


It all boils down to weight and balance - really depends on the rest of the setup, largely barrel profile. The cheek riser on the bravo is great and the pistol grip is fine. Most PSR shooters (not to be confused with PRS) use chassis, and often go on the heavier side because they are shooting longs. Indeed they struggle a bit with the offhand stages, but it's tradeoffs. Unlike traditional 3P SR, most of the PSR stages are bipod, backpack or hawkins with just a sprinkle of offhand. Makes more sense to go a heavy gun.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by Lazarus » 28 Oct 2022, 2:12 pm

jwai86 wrote:
in2anity wrote:You are right, they do limit you to prone and bench. Don't get a varmint barrel for field positional shooting.

On a similar note, will dropping a rifle into a chassis limit its usage too? Models like the KRG Bravo and MDT XRS have some polymer parts to reduce their weight, but I'm not sure if those are light enough for use beyond prone and bench shooting.


Putting my 24" Howa varmint into an XLR ELEMENT chassis took the weight up to 7kg.
This is with 1400g of scope though, so yes, in my experience chassis will add weight.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by Blr243 » 28 Oct 2022, 2:15 pm

A tough person without much money might tolerate carrying a heavy rifle in the bush. Most don’t or if they do get jack of it and buy a lighter rifle for the bush .. I own two heavy barrelled howas they have never been carried in the bush. The third heavy barrelled howa has a much shorter barrel so it’s ok for bush carry
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by jwai86 » 28 Oct 2022, 3:07 pm

in2anity wrote:It all boils down to weight and balance - really depends on the rest of the setup, largely barrel profile.

What I currently have in mind to start with is a rimfire rifle with a sporter barrel and preferably a synthetic stock. Replacing the stock with a chassis sounds great and all, but I'd be inclined to give it a miss if it limits the rifle to prone and bench shooting.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by bladeracer » 28 Oct 2022, 3:13 pm

jwai86 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:If you can slow down your shooting, open the action ASAP after firing, and let air flow through the barrel for a few minutes between shots I doubt you'd benefit from a heavier barrel. Or simply reduce your loads, heat and pressure are what cause problems. When I first got my .204 and was working up loads I did find shots starting to move around, but I don't recall how many rounds it took. Unfortunately I lost the logbook covering my first 460rds in the rifle in a hard drive crash. I would think 15-20rds would be fine, with my warm loads. My reduced loads I can probably shoot all day long with no change in POI.


I posted this thread with .22 LR in mind, although I don't doubt that waiting between shots will still help when using that calibre.

What I'm looking to confirm is if a heavy barrelled rifle is always going to be less versatile when it comes to shooting from positions other than prone and bench. I wish to avoid limiting my practical options when comes to trying out shooting from a variety of positions.


I have .22LR barrels from the fairly hefty Ruger American Target to the long whippy BSA Sportsman 5. Unless you're shooting Benchrest I doubt it will make a measurable difference. Shooting offhand I'd rather have a shorter barrel regardless of its profile, it gets the bullet disconnected from the the shooter sooner. The Ruger (in its lami-stock) is noticeably front-heavy, but not at all uncomfortable with it. In the MDT chassis with pistol grip it's not even noticeable.

For hunting I just want the rifle to be as light as possible, and I don't see any advantage in the field for a heavier barrel in a .22LR.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by jwai86 » 28 Oct 2022, 4:00 pm

bladeracer wrote:Shooting offhand I'd rather have a shorter barrel regardless of its profile, it gets the bullet disconnected from the the shooter sooner.

For a while I thought a CZ Scout rifle might be a cool idea, but between the additional cost of fixing the short length of pull and the price of those models recently going up, I think the idea is DOA.
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Re: When is a varmint barrel absolutely necessary?

Post by bladeracer » 28 Oct 2022, 4:46 pm

jwai86 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Shooting offhand I'd rather have a shorter barrel regardless of its profile, it gets the bullet disconnected from the the shooter sooner.


For a while I thought a CZ Scout rifle might be a cool idea, but between the additional cost of fixing the short length of pull and the price of those models recently going up, I think the idea is DOA.


I quite like a short LoP, but probably more to do with my injuries. I'd love to swap the buttstock of my Henry H001 with somebody that has the Youth model and finds it too short. I also find pistol grips more comfortable than the standard wrist in a timber stock.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by jwai86 » 28 Oct 2022, 5:08 pm

Two QLD dealers offered the CZ 457 Scout for around $800 earlier, but now they are around $1,000.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by SCJ429 » 28 Oct 2022, 6:08 pm

For positional shooting and PRS the guys appear to use 24 inch heavy barrels and ammo manufacturers seem to cater for this length of barrel. This weight of barrel also balences up your rifle which otherwise would be tail heavy. Some of the best chassis are made by Anschutz but Fenwerkbau and Walther make some very nice 3P rifles. If you have a look at the price of an Anschutz in a Precise stock, you may need to keep saving for a while. You could build something on a CZ 455 or 457 action and have a pretty capable rifle. For a budget starter rifle, you could try the Tikka T1.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by SCJ429 » 28 Oct 2022, 6:16 pm

3P shooters appear to have extremely long barrel however they use a bloop tube which also lengthens their front sights distance from the rear sight.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by in2anity » 28 Oct 2022, 9:04 pm

SCJ429 wrote:3P shooters appear to have extremely long barrel however they use a bloop tube which also lengthens their front sights distance from the rear sight.


There is one crucial detail that differentiates between Olympic style 3p, and field positional matches - and that is the dynamic of taking the weight off the arms between shots. This enables the use of very heavy guns, which also shoot 10s all day long from the prone position.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by SCJ429 » 29 Oct 2022, 8:58 am

Yes usually you have a stand for your rifle and the aid of a shooting jacket.
A lot of field rifle comps let you use a sling which can help.
In any case I would rather hang on to a Anschutz 1813 with a heavy Walnut stock than a Lee Enfield.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by jwai86 » 29 Oct 2022, 6:56 pm

SCJ429 wrote:For positional shooting and PRS the guys appear to use 24 inch heavy barrels and ammo manufacturers seem to cater for this length of barrel. This weight of barrel also balences up your rifle which otherwise would be tail heavy. Some of the best chassis are made by Anschutz but Fenwerkbau and Walther make some very nice 3P rifles. If you have a look at the price of an Anschutz in a Precise stock, you may need to keep saving for a while. You could build something on a CZ 455 or 457 action and have a pretty capable rifle. For a budget starter rifle, you could try the Tikka T1.

I don't know anything about those match disciplines, but I'm not after something highly specialised for competition. Merely a setup for finding out what I like doing without being tied to the ground or bench straight off the bat. From the responses I'm getting, it doesn't look like I need to do much to a factory standard sporter rifle to meet that end.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by Noisydad » 29 Oct 2022, 7:42 pm

Black powder shooters that take part in mid range comps at steel varmints (200 - 600 yards and no scope ) routinely use rifles with barrels 30” long and an inch thick at the skinny end.
Using these 5 kg lumps off hand at 200 yard chicken silhouettes is heavy work but the considerable front end weight definitely dampens the wobbles…more modern shootin irons for varmints will do the same… at least until gravity starts winning.
Mostly we use cross sticks to support the them right up at the front of the barrel as per this video…
https://youtu.be/faj29Tt7Zvo
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by SCJ429 » 30 Oct 2022, 9:22 am

jwai86 wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:For positional shooting and PRS the guys appear to use 24 inch heavy barrels and ammo manufacturers seem to cater for this length of barrel. This weight of barrel also balences up your rifle which otherwise would be tail heavy. Some of the best chassis are made by Anschutz but Fenwerkbau and Walther make some very nice 3P rifles. If you have a look at the price of an Anschutz in a Precise stock, you may need to keep saving for a while. You could build something on a CZ 455 or 457 action and have a pretty capable rifle. For a budget starter rifle, you could try the Tikka T1.

I don't know anything about those match disciplines, but I'm not after something highly specialised for competition. Merely a setup for finding out what I like doing without being tied to the ground or bench straight off the bat. From the responses I'm getting, it doesn't look like I need to do much to a factory standard sporter rifle to meet that end.

You said that you thought that heavy varmint barrels might be less versatile than lighter barrels and more suited to prone or bench shooting. But when you look at positional shooters for rimfire, they all use heavy barrels around 24 inches. They do this because there is an advantage to this weight and length of barrel. Just something to consider and if you want to practice plinking offhand with a Ruger or Tikka factory rifle you will do quite well.
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Re: Questions re: varmint barrels

Post by in2anity » 31 Oct 2022, 7:17 am

It goes without saying that for any type of iron sighted target shooting, sight radius is your friend. 24" barrel at least, preferably more. Weight on the other hand is not so simple. YES a heavy well balanced gun can be shot well, but only for a brief window of time before you get jelly arms. If the comp allows putting the rifle down between shots, shooters will always do so, and indeed opt for the heaviest gun they can manage for the typical "break windows". Yes mass can have a dampening effect on the wooble.

One exception I see this this, is CMP style AR comp. But their jackets cradle them across their shoulders,and they don't have to work the bolt like we do- they just lay back into their jacket, striking the "hip pop" pose with the support arm tucked on the ribs, and squeeze away - the heavy AR weighs down still, on the stack of bones going down through the support arm, hip and lead leg.

Long story short - it really depends on exactly what type of shooting you will be realistically be doing.
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