US manufactured 22 ammo

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US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by waimo » 31 Dec 2022, 2:28 pm

What are peoples thoughts on the US made 22 ammo . Thought I might give the subsonic 42 grainers a go . Find the cci subsonic hollow points although accurate and consistant poor killers when chest shots are taken.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by No1Mk3 » 31 Dec 2022, 3:32 pm

I like CCI for consistency, but I still think the Australian made Winchester were better than anything coming from the US, not just being parochial as I'm actually Kiwi born and raised. Have you tried the RWS Field Line subbies? I have found them effective on rabbits (possums are protected here), Cheers.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by animalpest » 31 Dec 2022, 4:07 pm

USA manufactured Winchester .22LR ammo nosedived in accuracy compared to the Australian made stuff.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Dec 2022, 4:23 pm

animalpest wrote:USA manufactured Winchester .22LR ammo nosedived in accuracy compared to the Australian made stuff.


Hear that all the time.

Also try RSW club. They do a solid and HP in a subbie.
Unfortunately it's the solid that works well in my brno. So I'm in the same predicament as you.

I've flattened the tip on a few to try. I believe they kill a bit better then.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Lazarus » 31 Dec 2022, 5:18 pm

Don't like it, don't use it.

Winchester subsonics were all over the place like a mad woman's knitting, the HV was only marginally better.

CCI in my Lithgow were variable, the fast stuff was pretty woeful, the Quite were not too bad but they're solids.

The best hunting ammo in the 101 is Sellier and Bellot Subsonic, 15mm group at 50m and 25mm at 75m.
The best of all is the Lapua, 8mm at 50 15mm at 75m, but solid, and at 50c each, not something Id use on a rabbit.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2022, 7:16 pm

waimo wrote:What are peoples thoughts on the US made 22 ammo . Thought I might give the subsonic 42 grainers a go . Find the cci subsonic hollow points although accurate and consistant poor killers when chest shots are taken.


I go for CCI and Eley first, if I can't find something that shoots then I start playing with other stuff. Ideally I want a new rifle to shoot well with CCI Standard Velocity, it's cheap, available, reliable and accurate.

I generally don't aim at the chest as I prefer head shots but I took a trotting fox with a side-on heart shot with CCI Standard Velocity. The .22LR is always going to kill better in the brain/cervical spine. Rabbits in particular have the reflex kicking that can send them down a burrow before you can get to them, though I'm not convinced a clean low-velocity head shot totally prevents that. CCI MiniMag and Velocitor aren't terrible for me but are well short of the precision of the Standard Velocity. Federal F510 is another high-velocity that seems to shoot well for a lot of people, and is even cheaper than the CCI SV, when it's available.

If you can get decent groups out of the 1500fps Remington Yellow Jacket, and your firearm will feed the truncated bullet, it is known for excellent bullet deformation.

If you really want a hollow-point design, some people will find a round-nose target cartridge that shoots well, then they run them through a bullet pointing tool to press a hollow-point into them, often without losing much of their accuracy. As the tool also swages the bullet up to a consistent diameter it can sometimes improve accuracy.
Last edited by bladeracer on 31 Dec 2022, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by MtnMan » 31 Dec 2022, 8:48 pm

Yep, get a waltz die or DIY you own like I did. Turns any round nose into a hollow point.

The best ammo in my LA101 is SK pistol match special. 5 shot ragged hole at 50m. Next best is the Winchester super suppressed. Both are round nose but I hollow point them for hunting.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by deye243 » 31 Dec 2022, 9:46 pm

I find the cci Subsonic stuff absolutely outstanding these impacts were at 80 + yards I find them even better than the 42 grain subs that I have here from when they first came out

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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Dec 2022, 10:01 pm

Deye,
I assume they are HPs?
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by deye243 » 31 Dec 2022, 10:17 pm

Yes
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2022, 10:39 pm

Impacts on what sort of animal and placed into what tissue?

deye243 wrote:I find the cci Subsonic stuff absolutely outstanding these impacts were at 80 + yards I find them even better than the 42 grain subs that I have here from when they first came out

Screenshot_20221231-222141_Gallery.jpg


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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by deye243 » 01 Jan 2023, 12:03 am

Been through this before they were milk cartons now you can always tell an effective bullet on a rabbit or a fox because of the thump it makes when it hits nearly as loud as the round itself using a solid you get a slight click and they buzz clean through half of these bullets don't even exit a rabbit on a longitudinal shot which proves they work well but as I only shoot them stinking things to get rid of them ain't no way I'm getting my hands dirty digging friggin projectiles out of them bloody stinking things .
Another way of finding out whether you have a effective projectile shoot one at 150-200 yards should have a very resounding Thump and they should just jump a bit up land flat on their sides dead as a maggot or do a backflip chest shots again round noses and hard bullets like just about everything cheap just sail clean through and they run off and if your lucky they stop and die .
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by wanneroo » 01 Jan 2023, 2:42 am

I won a national smallbore team rifle championship with Eley, so that is always my preferred 22 LR ammo.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Lazarus » 01 Jan 2023, 11:32 am

@Bladeracer

Mate, I love the sound of the hollowpoint tool, but can't find anything but expired links.

The closest I came was an order form for a "Waltz Die" but it's a snail mail set-up with someone who only accepts cash or cheque.

Pointing tools I can find, but they don't do the hollowpoint.

Got any ideas where I might look?

That last is a general question to anyone
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 2:08 pm

Lazarus wrote:@Bladeracer

Mate, I love the sound of the hollowpoint tool, but can't find anything but expired links.

The closest I came was an order form for a "Waltz Die" but it's a snail mail set-up with someone who only accepts cash or cheque.

Pointing tools I can find, but they don't do the hollowpoint.

Got any ideas where I might look?

That last is a general question to anyone


Just can't find. On another forum. But saw a bloke made a simple version.
He used a Lee 224 resizing die in a press.
A case holder for 22lr
Inserted in top of the die what amounted to a pointy bolt. I think it had a lock nut to adjust the depth of the HP. He inserted the 22 in the bottom and gave the bolt a tap from the top.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 2:13 pm

Here. I must have saved a couple of pics.

295629-136b0316e361948291a6e0fc4779721f.jpg
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Easy if you have a lathe.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Lazarus » 01 Jan 2023, 2:15 pm

Thanks for that OB.

There are some available that rely on "tapping" with a hammer, but.....

The beauty of the waltz is it fits in a standard Lee press:

https://youtu.be/inEmsBcAwho
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 2:20 pm

Here is another version.

Paco-sm.jpg
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I think mountain man made one too
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Lazarus » 01 Jan 2023, 2:26 pm

Yeah, I like the Paco's version too but all the listing links I could find were old ebay and amazon ones that are dead now.

Did you find any active ones?
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 2:35 pm

Lazarus wrote:Thanks for that OB.

There are some available that rely on "tapping" with a hammer, but.....

The beauty of the waltz is it fits in a standard Lee press:

https://youtu.be/inEmsBcAwho


Personally I think tapping them with a nylon hammer would be safe. That's how it's done with a Lee classic loader. You could use a drill press.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 2:37 pm

The thing is if you buy from us, postage is murder. And making is a bit of time and need a lathe. And in my case hardly ever shoot rabbits these days. The Lee resizing die is the trick tho.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 2:45 pm

I did this in a drill press. Just set the drill stop. Four flattened. Two un touched.

Resized_20220421_121945.jpeg
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20220421_122705.jpg
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Lazarus » 01 Jan 2023, 3:18 pm

That was one of my first thoughts, and it does work but what stopped me was losing concentricity without the die.

Have you checked them before and after?
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2023, 4:35 pm

I think nowadays it's a lot quicker and easier to make your own.
You need a hole honed through a bolt, a 7/8-14tpi bolt is nice as it screws into reloading presses. The "chamber" end needs to be large enough to accept a .22LR round and support it so you don't crush it, probably around .226" diameter - or buy a .22LR chamber reamer. Above .600" narrow it down to .224" for the bullet - if you want to get fancy you could do the die in two halves and make different diameter holes in the top - .2225", .2230" .2235", .2240" and .2245" might be interesting to play with.
Then you need a pin that fits in the hole, say .222" and cut whatever profile you want to on the tip of it.
If you use a press you can adjust the depth of the hollow point, if you're using a vice or a hammer you'll probably want to make some spacers to adjust the depth.

For accuracy you really want to be profiling the base of the bullet but I've never heard of any way to do this with .22LR short of pulling the bullets and replacing them with jacketed or copper bullets as they're using in Rimfire ELR now.
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/shop/cutting-edge-bullets/22lr
https://www.recoilweb.com/22-elr-cutting-edge-bullets-pushes-the-limits-173917.html


Lazarus wrote:@Bladeracer

Mate, I love the sound of the hollowpoint tool, but can't find anything but expired links.

The closest I came was an order form for a "Waltz Die" but it's a snail mail set-up with someone who only accepts cash or cheque.

Pointing tools I can find, but they don't do the hollowpoint.

Got any ideas where I might look?

That last is a general question to anyone
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2023, 4:44 pm

If you're concerned, drill some small vent holes in one side of the die so if one does go off it'll vent out the holes rather than fire the bullet and pointing pin through your ceiling. Keep the vent holes pointing away from you and never cover them with your fingers. If you're using a press, some rudimentary guard around the die wouldn't be a bad idea. I have detonated a centrefire primer on the press, it can be distracting even without powder or a two-inch steel projectile in place of a bullet.


Oldbloke wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Thanks for that OB.

There are some available that rely on "tapping" with a hammer, but.....

The beauty of the waltz is it fits in a standard Lee press:

https://youtu.be/inEmsBcAwho


Personally I think tapping them with a nylon hammer would be safe. That's how it's done with a Lee classic loader. You could use a drill press.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2023, 4:46 pm

Oldbloke wrote:I did this in a drill press. Just set the drill stop. Four flattened. Two un touched.

Resized_20220421_121945.jpeg


20220421_122705.jpg


Do they still chamber okay?
No loss of accuracy?
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2023, 6:13 pm

Lazarus wrote:That was one of my first thoughts, and it does work but what stopped me was losing concentricity without the die.

Have you checked them before and after?


Have not been shot yet. (Been slack) But feed OK.
Hoping they kill a tad better and still very be accurate.
I don't expect them to mushroom but might "start" to mushroom. Searching around suggests flat points kill better. I intend to put one through a few milk cartons full of water as part of the accuracy test.

I have measured a few with a mitutoyo micrometer and no measurable change to the diameter. But you can see they have been pushed back into the case by perhaps upto 0.010"
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by deye243 » 01 Jan 2023, 9:49 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Lazarus wrote:That was one of my first thoughts, and it does work but what stopped me was losing concentricity without the die.

Have you checked them before and after?


Have not been shot yet. (Been slack) But feed OK.
Hoping they kill a tad better and still very be accurate.
I don't expect them to mushroom but might "start" to mushroom. Searching around suggests flat points kill better. I intend to put one through a few milk cartons full of water as part of the accuracy test.

I have measured a few with a mitutoyo micrometer and no measurable change to the diameter. But you can see they have been pushed back into the case by perhaps upto 0.010"

Flat points definitely kill better I used Keith type semi what cutter projectiles for about 7 years in the 90s left round noses for dead and our past 150 yards were far superior to jacketed Hollow Point bullets as well
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by MtnMan » 02 Jan 2023, 5:59 am

Oldbloke wrote:Here. I must have saved a couple of pics.

295629-136b0316e361948291a6e0fc4779721f.jpg


295630-6c212263b00db2ba9a500257c867c011.jpg


Easy if you have a lathe.


Yep, that's the die I made. Hollow point depth is controlled by screwing the central plunger up or down.
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Re: US manufactured 22 ammo

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jan 2023, 8:44 am

OK. Found the other version.
But not for 22ir. 308 bullets.
Used a 308 sizing die for cast bullets and hit with a hammer LOL.

BUT Im convinced this will work for 22lr.
Same idea, 224 resizing die with a pointy rod to fit. But do it in a drill press to give depth control.


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