Lithgow LA101 Crossover .22 -- New Rifle Range Report

[GPostal]

Finally received my Lithgow .22 and managed to get a few days off.
2 hot days at SSAA St Marys Range (seriously 33 to 35 degrees) and as usual new rifle loves the expensive stuff.
Lots of pics.
Gear: D.R Greenlaw front rest, Protector rear bag, Weaver T36 Scope, Front stock support block.

Ammo tested
Winchester Subsonic
Midas
Center X
Eley Match
RWS R50
RWS R100
RWS Rifle Match
RWS Target Rifle
RWS Club
SK Pistol Match Spezial - 3 different batches
SK Standard Plus - 3 different batches
Geko Rifle
CCI

I really like the finish of the Lithgow - The silver finish is looks fantastic and the mottled finish on the barrel is a very nice touch.
I was surpised by the synthetic stock. I usually hate plastic stocks and while I was waiting for delivery I was organising a replacement wood stock. A factory walnut option would have been nice but now think it wouldn't have worked with the silver finish. So now happy to leave the plastic stock on as it feels very comfortable and balanced. I will however replace at some stage chasing accuracy.
Trigger is firm but from the targets you can see it doesn't effect accuracy. Lithgow are bringing out a target trigger in the near future.
So i take it out of the box and notice a rattle in the pistol grip section of the stock. After I remove the foam filler from the stock this falls out....


Which is obviously a previously broken cap that comes from the base plate on the pistol grip. Go quality control.



Only other issue is one I find on quite a few .22 bolt actions is the spent round on ejection, hitting the side of the stock and bouncing back into the action. Seems to happen 1 in 4 times regardless of speed of bolt.
Some more pics



Target TIME - Range 50m - I shot 10 sighter rounds at each change of ammo to clean out the barrel then shot the target groups, 5 shots each group.



This often happens - Change from one brand of ammo to another then put 5 in 1 hole.... Shame it only happens on the first 5 rounds of RWS Club, as you can see the rest didn't even get close to each other.

[Jack V]

That's interesting work mate. I knew the stock would be the weak part but they ignored me. For what the gun is and how it's made it don't shoot that well when compared to say the average Anschutz or Brno . It does seem to have some potential with Eley match and R100 though . With some tuning and barrel run in , with a decent stock it may well be very good . I personally don't like the whole look of the rifle , it does not do anything for me so that kind of turns me off it but others will like it . Is that hammer forging marks I see on the outside of the barrel ?

[trekin]

That's interesting work mate. I knew the stock would be the weak part but they ignored me. For what the gun is and how it's made it don't shoot that well when compared to say the average Anschutz or Brno . It does seem to have some potential with Eley match and R100 though . With some tuning and barrel run in , with a decent stock it may well be very good . I personally don't like the whole look of the rifle , it does not do anything for me so that kind of turns me off it but others will like it . Is that hammer forging marks I see on the outside of the barrel ?

Na, mate, that's from when they twist the freshly cast barrel tube round and round to get the rifling on the inside.

[Jack V]

I don't think so sport.

[Chronos]

That's interesting work mate. I knew the stock would be the weak part but they ignored me. For what the gun is and how it's made it don't shoot that well when compared to say the average Anschutz or Brno . It does seem to have some potential with Eley match and R100 though . With some tuning and barrel run in , with a decent stock it may well be very good . I personally don't like the whole look of the rifle , it does not do anything for me so that kind of turns me off it but others will like it . Is that hammer forging marks I see on the outside of the barrel ?

Na, mate, that's from when they twist the freshly cast barrel tube round and round to get the rifling on the inside.

LOL, It's the hammer forging marks but they haven't machined the outside of the barrel after

well done on the report GP, nice to see someone do a honest review of it and some method to their testing. I was not that impressed with the early model i handled at the sydney shot show but i do prefer my weatherby mkii for it's annie action and awesome trigger, it's balance and it's timber.

you seem to have done an excellent job comparing ammo and it's no wonder the higher quality ammo produced the better shaped groups. there's lots of vertical in some of those groups, particularly the SK pistol ammo

well don't mate, i hope you're happy with the new .22

Chronos

[Jack V]

What I would like to see now is concentrate on using Eley match and work on you front rest and rear support systems and shot deliver technique as I am also concerned about the vertical in most of the groups . With some experimentation we might see some very tight groups as there is potential there .

[GPostal]

Na, mate, that's from when they twist the freshly cast barrel tube round and round to get the rifling on the inside.

Priceless

Cheers Chrono, having handled and fired a weatherby mkii I agree that it is a better rifle all round. The trigger however cannot compete with my Weihrauch HW66 tho

With the Lithgow having a semi match chamber and the bullet head firmly engaging the rifling when loaded (not as tight as say an Annie 1913 BR50 but pretty close in seating depth) I did expect tighter groups all round.
Saying that it was a pretty uncomfortable day was an understatement and to a certain extent I was rushing a bit so yes I could have shot better Jack. Btw thanks for the input, my rear bag is getting pretty worn out.

Im off to Seaham tomorrow for the day doing some load development so will finish with some more .22 testing with the Eley and R50 / 100 and see if I can get some better groups as well as 10 shop groups at both 50 and 100 m.

[CustomPC]

I've also got a Crossover and have been testing various different ammo at St Marys.

The barrel on my Rifle wasn't floated so i have done that. I also installed a Lumley Arms Trigger kit which reduces the pull to about 700gm and takes some of the creep out.

I've tested the following Ammo in mine.
Eley Club - All groups under 1" but holes not touching,
Norma Practice - All groups under 1" but holes not touching
Federal Ultra Match - Some ragged one holers about 9mm and some average groups 15-20mm.
SK Rifle Match - Groups around 12-15mm
RWS Rifle Match - All groups under 1" but holes not touching
Winchester T22 White Box - 1.5" Groups
Lapua Centre-X - All groups under 1" but holes not touching

The first 3 were done prior to floating the barrel so i'm going to re-visit the Federal Ultra Match this weekend to see what difference that made. I'll also be trying a few other rounds in my search for the best performer. I'll try the Eley Match and see how that goes.

My Scope is a Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 4.5-14x44 on Burris Zee low rings.

Crossover Right Side View - Small.jpg (154.51 KiB) Viewed 79273 times

[Mich]

SK Rifle Match - Groups around 12-15mm

Good ammo the SK Rifle Match.

[GPostal]

Good work Custom PC.
The 3 Crossovers that were sold from my LGS all shoot different ammo well .Mine one like the most expensive ammo...Meh !
However, one owner recommends reinforcing the fore-stock with a strip of alloy to improve groups and different ammo. Also to play around with action bolt tensions.
Lithgow recommend 1.3 nm on each but I need to find a tension wrench that accurately measures that low.

Custom PC - Do you know what tension have you got ???

Once ive found a consistant ammo ill play with the tensions.

[CustomPC]

I use the Wheeler FAT torque wrench set to about 13in/lb which is 1.5Nm.

I've yet to experiment with different torque settings.

For the stock stiffener and bedding I've purchased the "Match Grade" products from NZ. The company name escapes me right now but a Google search should find it.

I will do a bedding job sometime in the next few weeks.

[Jack V]

Na, mate, that's from when they twist the freshly cast barrel tube round and round to get the rifling on the inside.

Priceless

Cheers Chrono, having handled and fired a weatherby mkii I agree that it is a better rifle all round. The trigger however cannot compete with my Weihrauch HW66 tho

With the Lithgow having a semi match chamber and the bullet head firmly engaging the rifling when loaded (not as tight as say an Annie 1913 BR50 but pretty close in seating depth) I did expect tighter groups all round.
Saying that it was a pretty uncomfortable day was an understatement and to a certain extent I was rushing a bit so yes I could have shot better Jack. Btw thanks for the input, my rear bag is getting pretty worn out.

Im off to Seaham tomorrow for the day doing some load development so will finish with some more .22 testing with the Eley and R50 / 100 and see if I can get some better groups as well as 10 shop groups at both 50 and 100 m.

I reckon you will work out how it likes to be shot , a new gun is always a learning curve of some kind . Again nice work and very helpful to others .

[Pom]

So i take it out of the box and notice a rattle in the pistol grip section of the stock. After I remove the foam filler from the stock this falls out....

Which is obviously a previously broken cap that comes from the base plate on the pistol grip. Go quality control.

Geez, takes the shine off of the unboxing doesn't it

[Lorgar]

Im off to Seaham tomorrow for the day doing some load development so will finish with some more .22 testing with the Eley and R50 / 100 and see if I can get some better groups as well as 10 shop groups at both 50 and 100 m.

Very keen to hear how to you got the R50.

It's the one ammo I still want to try in my Annie. Their Club ammo is my usual.

[crush]

Great rightup GPostal, must have taken ages.

Thanks for the effort

[mahna]

Spare half in case you crack your cap?

[Atter]

Awesome shooting with that RWS.

Wonder why only the first group before it spreads though?

[5Tom]

Do you intend on shooting paper if your testing match ammo?

How does it perform with hollow points for hunting?

[GPostal]

yes paper mainly as where I live all wildlife are generally someone's pets...........................
I shot cci copper hollows. see last target

[hotmetal1000]

Hi guys, new to the forum here.
I'm interested in how GPostal and CustomPC have got on with your Lithgow's?
I too have one and it has been a mixed bag. A friend also had 1, well 2, he sent the first one back under warranty and received a replacement. He has since given up on the Lithgow and traded it on another .22.
Check your headspace on the Lithgows both mine and my friends bolt closed easily, no resistance at all, on a no go gauge.
Both of our Lithgows too sometimes won't/wouldn't feed the last bullet from the magazine. The bolt will go over the top of the bullet and then when you pull back again will stand the bullet up in the magazine. Seems to be mainly the SK brands of bullets that do it.

So with mine I have floated the barrel as it wasn't done satisfactorily. I have changed the trigger springs with the Lumley springs which took the creep out of the trigger and was a huge improvement to the trigger. I had the headspace fixed, just a shim in the bolt and I have also done the stock stabilizer and Matchgrade bedding from Terminal Ballistics.
At first my Lithgow shot pretty much as above, no real consistency that I could find. After starting to argue (I call it arguing) with it, it would throw the first shot and then group nicely. I thought after bedding the rifle I had it pretty much sorted and seemed to be shooting and grouping well but the last two weeks it has started throwing the first shot and then grouping again.
See photo, yes that is the first shot to the left, very edge of the paper and then the next 4 shots is in that one hole.
Anyway I've tightened all the screws up further tonight, action and scope screws, I'll try it out on the weekend and if it hasn't improved I'm going to part ways with my Lithgow. At this point in time I'm quite disappointed with it which is a shame because I do like everything else about it especially being Australian made.

[CustomPC]

Hi hotmetal,

My Lithgow is performing ok. It's no Anschutz but it is a consistant grouper with no drastically wayward shots.

I have tried a lot of the premium match ammo from Lapua, RWS, Eley, Norma and SK. They are all the same at about 15-20mm groups. The cheap CCI and Win T22 ammo is 1.5" at best. The Federal 922A is also mostly 15-20mm groups but occasionally it throws me a bone with an 8-9mm group. Im mentioning the part number because some of the first boxes i bought from the range were labeled "Ultra Match" but now the same part number is "Match". The "ultra match" is now part UM2 and i want to try some but at $30 a box it'll have to wait.

I haven't checked the headspace on my rifle but I can say it feeds perfectly from the magazine. I do get the occasional empty case bouncing back into the ejection port which needs to be cleared and the fastest way is to drop the magazine and let it fall out the bottom.

After my previous posts i discovered something that was effecting the bedding. On my rifle, the bottom of the magazine well was touching the stock at the bottom of it's inletting. This meant that the action wasn't seating properly in the bedding 'V's because it was rocking on the magazine well and it was impossible to get consistent torque on the stock screws. I deepened my stock's inletting underneath the magazine well with some careful dremel work and the action seats nicely and now torques down well. I also needed to shorten the front screw slightly and remove some material from the barrel channel to improve the float.

I told the Lithgow factory about my bedding issues and they replied saying the engineers had checked and found i was right and It has been addressed.

My stock flexes at the forend and i've been meaning to use the Stock Stabilizer. I will also bed it eventually. Do you have any pictures of your bedding job.

I wasn't too happy with my scope and i was thinking it may have been the reason for my inability to tighten the groups. I had noticable parallax and the side focus ranges were way off (eg. the side focus scale said 150yd at 50m).
Yesterday i found that my ocular focus was wrong. I was compensating for the badly adjusted ocular with the side focus so the image was clear but not ideal. I also found i had the scope slightly to far forward and i wasn't getting a sharp edged circle in the view. Now that i had adjusted both correctly the Side focus is very close to the actual range and i don't detect the parallax anymore. I'm itching to get back to the range and see what difference it makes.

The picture below shows my results on a good day when i'm shooting well. The ammo is Norma 2, Eley Match and Federal 922A

Target_27-02-15_Norma_Eley_Fed.jpg (228.45 KiB) Viewed 77168 times

[Chronos]

Thanks for the post CustomPC. Disspointing to hear you've had some issues with your rifle bedding. If I remember correctly they are bedded on four little "bumps" moulded into the stock, are you saying the action was resting on the magwell and not touching one or more of the "bumps"? I assume that means the action could rock left and right on the magwell.

Chronos

[Warrigul]

I wasn't too happy with my scope and i was thinking it may have been the reason for my inability to tighten the groups. I had noticable parallax and the side focus ranges were way off (eg. the side focus scale said 150yd at 50m).
Yesterday i found that my ocular focus was wrong. I was compensating for the badly adjusted ocular with the side focus so the image was clear but not ideal. I also found i had the scope slightly to far forward and i wasn't getting a sharp edged circle in the view. Now that i had adjusted both correctly the Side focus is very close to the actual range and i don't detect the parallax anymore. I'm itching to get back to the range and see what difference it makes.

I have found this a few times over the past couple of years with people having trouble, it seems to be more prevalent with the smaller side parallax correction focus knobs that when it was on the front objective housing.

One thing that does help is one of those stupid looking big side wheels, but I have decided to give side parallax adjustment a miss in future.

Many shooters out there are unaware what parallax is and how to adjust a scope when they have that option.

[CustomPC]

If I remember correctly they are bedded on four little "bumps" moulded into the stock, are you saying the action was resting on the magwell and not touching one or more of the "bumps"? I assume that means the action could rock left and right on the magwell.

Chronos

The action was resting on the mag well and wasn't seating into the "V" formed by the front bedding blocks. It could rock lengthwise on the mag well before the screws were torqued down. When tightening the action screws it felt a bit spongey. Either the action was bending or the plastic mag well was being deformed under tension.

Now that i've made the clearance for the mag well the action drops straight into the bedding blocks and doesn't rock at all. When i torque the screws they tighten properly. The action is seated about 2-3mm deeper into the stock now.

[Fry]

Hi guys, new to the forum here.

Welcome

[crush]

I too have one and it has been a mixed bag. A friend also had 1, well 2, he sent the first one back under warranty and received a replacement. He has since given up on the Lithgow and traded it on another .22.

Well that sucks

[hotmetal1000]

Hi Guys,

CustomPC, mine also was touching the magazine well on the stock. I discovered this when I placed the barrel into the stock without the recoil lug in place, it rocked on the magazine well and didn't make contact with all 4 bedding "bumps".
I also checked how many turns the screws took before bottoming out without the stock on and then counted the turns as I tightened the screws with the stock on and discovered that the screws were bottoming out.

I don't have any pictures of my bedding to post sorry. I bed mine basically from the recoil lug forward including the first 1" of barrel. After bedding it really improved the groups across all ammo I had to try with at the time.

Most of my fore end play I found come from the stock where it thins down for the action. Before bedding I glued some aluminium into the stock under the action to stiffen it there, which helped but by far the best thing was the bedding.

[deye243]

Na, mate, that's from when they twist the freshly cast barrel tube round and round to get the rifling on the inside.

[Korkt]

I also checked how many turns the screws took before bottoming out without the stock on and then counted the turns as I tightened the screws with the stock on and discovered that the screws were bottoming out.

I suspect there had to be some hickups in the design/build process for the lithgows.

They started advertising then took ages to release the things, now they seem riddled with problems.

[stefo]

Hi guys, can anyone tell me what size rings to buy ??
just got my crossover !!