Head spacing .22LR rounds

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Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by pawnee » 20 May 2015, 6:51 pm

Got a good tip from a old fella the other night about head spacing .22 rounds
I told him I was going to buy a gauge to do the job he said make your own
Get a .22 Hornet case trim it front and back
So got out the Wilson trimmer and did that
Did 500 rounds today for the missus she is stoked
Thanks old fella :drinks:
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 20 May 2015, 6:56 pm

I wonder who that "old fella" may have been...... :unknown:

Now what you have to do is do your own, but let the Missus beat you anyway just to keep in the good books.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by pawnee » 20 May 2015, 6:59 pm

Apollo wrote:I wonder who that "old fella" may have been...... :unknown:

Now what you have to do is do your own, but let the Missus beat you anyway just to keep in the good books.

I have got to let her beat me otherwise I dip out :mrgreen:
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by on_one_wheel » 20 May 2015, 8:00 pm

That was all a big 747 ( over my head )

What are you fellas up to there ?
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 20 May 2015, 9:03 pm

What is happening is to make factory produced rimfire ammo more consistant. Like tuning a load for centrefire.

Consistancy in how rounds shoot, getting rid of those weird inconsistant shots be it shooting varmints but really target shooting. When you are shooting accuracy at 200 yards or so rimfire you need to be precise. It's also nice to put those 50m shots or groups exactly where they should be.

A rimfire cartridge is headspaced of it's rim and that measurement is used to attain consistancy. Sorting them into rim thickness is what happens in rimfire competition shoots but it can't hurt when trying to shoot those little creatures with head shots. Doesn't matter if it's the cheapest plinking ammo you can buy or the most expensive specially designed target grade like Eley, Lapua or whoever.

There is a lot more to this but as I said the same applies doing hand loads for centrefire, consistancy brings the best accuracy but you have a choice of components to achieve that with centrefire. Rimfire, you only have what you are given by the manufacturer.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by on_one_wheel » 20 May 2015, 9:13 pm

Sounds good but I'm struggling to visualize what this home made case gauge looks like, I'll Google that one a bit.

I've heared that air rifle shooters use specialized tools to shape their pellets all the same, do the rimfre people have tools to make their projects more uniform?
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by rsj223 » 20 May 2015, 9:21 pm

I found this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqM-SHZlZjM
I this what your talking about?
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Chronos » 20 May 2015, 9:27 pm

I sat down one night with a brick of federal gold medal .22 ammo and a home made headspace guage. I proceeded to batch 9 boxes of ammo by rim thickness, to be honest there was bugger all in in and i had maybe a box that was nearly .001" thin and the same that was thicker than the bulk of them.

to be honest i couldn't tell the difference of the bench from my weatherby Mkxxii and i believe it's because of the way the chambers are cut. rimfire chambers on hunting rifles are cut with more freebore but "match" chambers are cut so that the bullet engages in the lands and that's when i thing you'd see the biggest improvement but i reckon if you were shooting a custom rimfire BR gun you'd be using much better ammo than the $7 a box stuff most of us use

i read on one of the american forums a while ago some guys prefer to weigh rimfire ammo instead or as well as sort it by rim thickness, that may well be a lot of work to remove 1 or 2 flyers from a box but it depends what that 1 flyer might cost you hey?

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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Chronos » 20 May 2015, 9:33 pm

here's a .22 reamer chart that shows how you "could" order a reamer that suits the ammo you are planning to use, aparently you can also change the lead angle by 1/4 deg either side as well then choose to run the reamer as deep as you like to suit the rim on your ammo as well

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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 20 May 2015, 10:31 pm

"Pawnee" and I are using standard factory rimfire rifles, not anything custom made nor a custom made and reamed barrel / chamber. In my case a 1965 Brno Model 2 in a factory original stock. It will shoot tiny clover leaf groups at 50 metres but rim thickness sorting has improved accuracy and consistancy to near single hole 5 shot groups.

I don't know about "Pawnee" but my intended use is for 200 Yard Rimfire Fly Competition and to reduce 5 shot groups from an average of 3 1/2" to less than 2" or better in good conditions over a whole day shooting. Without rim sorting there has always been one shot at least that seemed to wander from the rest of the group that I can't blame on myself or a change of conditions over the range.

Quality target grade ammo does help but not completely. That is going from something like CCI Standard to Lapua SK Rifle Match which was good to even better Lapua Center-X and now rather very consistant with rim sorting. Bullet weight sorting as well is another choice to be considered and tested but one thing at a time as with any load testing. Custom grade rimfire rifles may not suffer as much with different types / brands of ammo but standard factory do tend to like a particular one.

I don't normally shoot any form of competition rimfire nor intend to so I don't want anything better than what I have already, it's just a bit of fun but most important shooting 200 yard rimfire is a learning / practise tool to read wind / mirage for centrefire competition at much longer ranges like 500 metres plus.

This is the cheap gauge we are talking about and the rim thickness measurement. Made by squaring both the head and neck of a fired .22 Hornet case so the measuring faces are parallel to each other. The way I use mine is it sits in a .30cal OAL gauge and is held in place to make measuring a simple single handed job other than changing cartridges.

Cheap ammo has a large measurement difference but even quality Lapua can vary to around 0.004". The last 500 I measured I had two main groups 0.001" different but about 10% of the brick were in another 5-6 groups. Shooting those shows up the POI difference in the varietion.

Some say this is a waste of time. To those, well fine and to each their own belief.

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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by rsj223 » 20 May 2015, 10:46 pm

The red thing in the third pic is a holder, now I understand it I should check a 50 or so to see what happens.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 20 May 2015, 11:03 pm

The main "Red" thing is a Hornady LnL Comparator Base, the smaller one is a Hornady LnL Anvil and the shiny bit is a 30Cal Sinclair Comparator Insert. It's just that a .22 Hornet Case fits neatly into the 30Cal Insert so no need to hold anything. Normally used to measure Ogive readings for my 30BR's.

All just parts of my measuring equipment so nothing was purpose bought for this job.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by rsj223 » 20 May 2015, 11:34 pm

If I get the time I would love to give this a try, Thanks
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Yelp » 21 May 2015, 4:14 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:That was all a big 747 ( over my head )

What are you fellas up to there ?


You weren't the only one :lol:
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 21 May 2015, 4:49 pm

Goes to show what extremes "some" people go to in order to achieve that little extra edge on accuracy and consistancy.

Some don't believe, some don't simply want to spend the time but those that strive for that extra go to the effort.

Tools are available that cost a hundred dollars and much more for this purpose. They aren't made for no reason...!!!!

Some top end rimfire target shooters will spend the money, time and effort to achieve the goal.

If you can sort cheap ammo into being better for little cost or even the most expensive ammo to give you and edge in competition or perhaps just to keep up.

It's worth it...!!!!

Believe or not what you like I don't care but I do and so do some friends sort .22LR Ammo this way even for shooting rabbits.....in the head, to eat.

I should have told my friend "pawnee" to keep it quiet..... :friends:
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by on_one_wheel » 21 May 2015, 8:36 pm

Thats fantastic, thanks for the great explanation Apollo.

for your 200 m shooting are you using subsonic rounds ? I ask because I do a bit of 100m practice, standing unsupported , using subsonic at a 300 mm x 300 mm steel plate and find im around 300mm hold over.

I might make a gauge myself and have a play... after all these years I still think my .22 is the most fun rife I own and will find any excuse to spend around 200 rounds in a quick session.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 21 May 2015, 9:41 pm

Look, I love shooting. Ever since I was a kid just out of nappies. That was 60 odd years ago... :shock:

Up until this stage I have only practised at home on my farm at 200 Yards, not metres since the range competition I am going to is in Yards. This is Benchrest shooting a 500m Fly Target. 10 score ring is 1.75" roughly, the fly less than half that. If I get a chance I'll post a target. Hang on, I can. Here is a target I shot at 500 metres Centerfire to win best target, smallest group and came 4th place in that National Comeptition. My first ever competion shoot.

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The group measures 1.182" and was good enough to win smallest group and best group for the competition. That was shot with a 6.5x47 Lapua Custom. Work out the scale. the 10 ring is about 1 3/4".

My point here is that this is "Fly Shoot" at 500 metres, 300 metres Centerfire and now I challenge myself to try 200 Yards Rimfire. I'm an old bloke with plenty of injuries, bad eyes and nasty temper so I'll kick myself when I stuff up. So, I'll have a go at 200 Yards with my "Pride n Joy" old 1965 Brno Model 2 .22LR against the guys that use designated target rifles. How I go, I don't care. Rule 10 in "Fly Shoot" is that if anyone is found not enjoying themselves they will be disqualified.

Yes, below supersonic. Lapua Center-X is what I'll be using even if the wind blows...1,073fps so a little higher than what is called "sub-sonic" standard rounds.

As I have said, shooting .22LR at longer ranges is training, to read the wind, mirage and in general conditions. We use specific special "Wind Flags" and my set of 6 is worth about a Grand. A lot of money but also you need to learn how to read them and I'm just learning. The wind in the first short distance is the wind that takes the biggest influence on your long distance shot. Am I good at this...NO. and if you didn't read...NO & NO again. I wish I was younger and had many more years of practise I could do.

If you want me to make you a gauge, PM me your address and I'll send one... One only offer but it may be a couple of weeks before I have the money and time to get to the Post Office... This is not an open offer. I'm only an Old Age Pensioner...!!!! I spend too much money doing what I like at present. Shooting little targets.

I'll shoot maybe a few dozen rounds at a time, just to test but then it's one shot at a target each of 5 or shoot 5 shots at the one target for a group. Best 5 at 200 yards in ideal conditions has been 2 1/4" once with Lapua Center-X.

Enjoy yourself... I do cause I do this at home.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Usurper » 22 May 2015, 2:19 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:I might make a gauge myself and have a play... after all these years I still think my .22 is the most fun rife I own and will find any excuse to spend around 200 rounds in a quick session.


And it's the only one you can shoot 200 off without worrying about your wallet :lol:
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Patrol66 » 28 May 2015, 8:41 pm

I've sorted my 22lr rounds . Looking for that bit extra. For the range and one for the pot
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Rocker » 01 Jun 2015, 11:18 am

Apollo wrote:I'll shoot maybe a few dozen rounds at a time, just to test but then it's one shot at a target each of 5 or shoot 5 shots at the one target for a group. Best 5 at 200 yards in ideal conditions has been 2 1/4" once with Lapua Center-X.


How much do you find that opens up with a little wind?

Just normal stuff, not shooting in anything to severe.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Apollo » 01 Jun 2015, 3:05 pm

Not sure what you mean here.

I don't have a wind speed meter but I do use wind flags, at a 200 yard target there will be possibly 5 flags and every one will show a different wind velocity perhaps even direction over that distance. This is where experience comes in to evaluate what is going to affect your POI.

Anything other than dead still will swing that POI.

I'll know better in the next week or so when a mate and I do some ammo testing and training with and without a breeze before we go to our competition shoot. I'll be happy if I can keep all my shots on my own target. If I end up with any from either side I should be able to tell as my .22LR holes will actually be .20 calibre size since the barrel is 20cal at the muzzle. It's on loan, called a .22LR Extruder Barrel.
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Octane » 02 Jun 2015, 3:54 pm

Apollo wrote:If I end up with any from either side I should be able to tell as my .22LR holes will actually be .20 calibre size since the barrel is 20cal at the muzzle. It's on loan, called a .22LR Extruder Barrel.


Extruder barrel.... Am I right in assuming the projectile is funnelled through it it be reduced to .20cal?

Sounds like inviting trouble you'd think....
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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Chronos » 02 Jun 2015, 4:06 pm

Not my thoughts but it's the first reference to the design i could find

"The Myra Extruder was originally developed as a .22 rimfire with a .20 caliber barrel. The .20 caliber shot acceptably, but the velocity increase was only slightly better than the standard .22lr, so it was considered not worth the trouble.

When the same approach was tried with a .17 caliber barrel, the bullets were squeezed to about 1" long and the resulting stabilization problems couldn't be solved, even with going to a 1 in 6" twist barrel. So the "extruder" concept was basically considered to be more trouble than it was worth."

I'll be interestred to hear how it shoots, i had a play at 200m with my .22 on the weekend and the biggest issue was finding a suitable aiming point meters above the target to aim at. I ended up maxing out my scope elevation and using the very bottom of the reticule and adjusting magnification until point of impact matched the point of aim. there was little wind to deal with so once i was on paper i managed to get quite a few hits on a 2" shoot and see target then a few hits on a 1" sticker on a target though there were quite a few 3-4" away.

I chose to use standard velocity ammo because i was aware some other ammo i have used becomes quite unstable when it goes transonic at around 100m and i wasn't convinced this wouldn't cause issues further out

The winner put 10 shots into a group around 3" wide and 2" high (from memory) , quite an impressive feat IMHO

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Re: Head spacing .22LR rounds

Post by Elek » 04 Jun 2015, 11:23 am

Sounds like a lot of effort to get a bit more velocity out of a .22lr.

Am I the only one thinking you'd be better off just buying a .22mag or .17hmr etc.
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